Porn and video game addiction are leading to 'masculinity crisis', says Stanford prison experiment p - Polidicks - Facepunch Forum

Porn and video game addiction are leading to 'masculinity crisis', says Stanford prison experiment p

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[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703459]Is that wrong though? Men do not have periods, so if they can't control their emotions there is something wrong. Otherwise it makes no sense as to why they're like that. Being in control of their emotions is a great ability but women get a pass because of their bodies, men don't because they do not have the chemistry. Why should men be given a leeway then?[/QUOTE] Because not all men are equal? Not all people have equal control of their emotions, equal emotional states even. And yes, you are discriminating against men. If a man shows emotion, right here, you're saying he can't and shouldn't. That's FUCKED.

[QUOTE=Thlis;47703429]I was hoping this would be on the feeling on inadequacy when males are constantly bombarded with depictions of ultra competent or ultra attractive males or the issue of suppressed emotion. But nope, just a guy saying video games are bad and giving a straw man argument.[/QUOTE] That is a much more important topic to discuss.

[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;47703466]i was a shut in for most of my childhood and had trouble even making small talk with a person, but getting a job and making more of an effort to talk to people has helped me to greatly overcome that in just a couple years. i think the problem is that for some people even getting to that point is a struggle because they spend too much time always away from others, and don't pursue any outside ventures.[/QUOTE] Games also feel like an easy escape from having to go throught that. I went throught it all too mate.

[QUOTE=Take_Opal;47703460]There will always be fear of rejection dude, it's human. Sure, you can possibly avoid becoming emotionally stunted and crippled for it, but rejection hurts anyone who wants enough.[/QUOTE]If you get rejected enough you get used to it and it doesn't hurt nearly as much if at all.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703440]So there we have another judgement against men that is discriminatory. Men HAVE to be in control of their emotions and can't let them get out of control, lest people make the connection as you're so close to doing here, that men who can't control their emotions are closer to being women then men.[/QUOTE] this looks like you're trying to make a connection where there isn't any. he's not saying men SHOULD be in control of their emotions. it's just a basic difference between men and women that women tend to be more emotional than men.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703462]Sorry, it's people HAVE to be in control if their emotions. You are getting it backwards. On average more women can't control their emotions due to biology. So after a few centuries society is hardwired to associate lack of emotional control with women. But the standard is not unique to men, it's not to punish men or anything. The standard applies to both men and women. Everyone is expected to control their emotions because lack of control is dangerous for everyone around. You wouldn't trust a woman that has no control over her emotions even though women are more expected to have that trait.[/QUOTE] However you are both saying "well we will accept it from a woman, but judge a man on it". I get that men and women are different, but I don't see why that's okay to judge men so fucking harshly on emotion. You say it's not a punishment, but it is because it stops anyone who feels things from being told "That's okay" and instead makes men who have emotional issues in a different way. Then, they are again, told by people like yourself "Suck it up, you can't have emotions" once they already have emotional problems. But no, there's no harm from men having to swallow anything they feel. Nothing bad can EVER happen from that. Right? Wrong.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703474]Because not all men are equal? Not all people have equal control of their emotions, equal emotional states even. And yes, you are discriminating against men. If a man shows emotion, right here, you're saying he can't and shouldn't. That's FUCKED.[/QUOTE] Define show

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703444]Watching excessive porn and excessive gaming will be a social expectation? That's a sad future.[/QUOTE] more that as both get normalized, what is and is not considered excessive may be entirely different and a lot more than what we see today. maybe not with porn, but as video games reach closer to 100% population participation, as music, movies, and books are, we may see the average time spend playing games as higher across the board, since games can integrate social interaction and entertainment far better than music and movies can. once we have a society in which nobody was born before video games, it isn't too difficult to imagine that the majority of people's social interactions will be through games or online. we're already seeing the beginning of it, and while it may be sad to you now, it probably won't be seen that way in, say, 50 years.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703474]Because not all men are equal? Not all people have equal control of their emotions, equal emotional states even. And yes, you are discriminating against men. If a man shows emotion, right here, you're saying he can't and shouldn't. That's FUCKED.[/QUOTE] He never said a man shouldnt show any emotions. Jesus. He is discriminating against people who are dangerous. That's what the society should do - shape someone's personality for the best (at the time) requirements. A man shouldn't loose control over his emotions. No matter the sex. Like if someone goes naked in public society will discriminate against him and punish him for antisocial behaviour. Will you defend his right to disgust everyone around with your "But you are discriminating against him, not all men are equal, he is just not like the others and you punish him for this"?

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703463]15 hours a day is excessive.[/QUOTE] As opposed to what? What else should he be doing? Should he read for a portion of those hours or maybe sit somewhere else and watch a movie, or should he go and do the healthy thing like go on a hike cause that's a lot better because you read that in a magazine. Let people do what they want, start talking to the in concern tones when, you know, it actually becomes concerning. You have no context to anyone's life, you are in no position to say what is relatively excessive.

[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;47703481]this looks like you're trying to make a connection where there isn't any. he's not saying men SHOULD be in control of their emotions. it's just a basic difference between men and women that women tend to be more emotional than men.[/QUOTE] Which leads to the inevitable judgement that because they should be in more control, they have to be more in control, and lack of control when it's the only thing that's considered important becomes a standard on which men are judged negatively.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703430]The best way to overcome it is by socializing. If you're alone all day every day, your life will be horrible.[/QUOTE] So far so good

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703495]He never said a man shouldnt show any emotions. Jesus. He is discriminating against people who are dangerous. That's what the society should do - shape someone's personality for the best (at the time) requirements. A man shouldn't loose control over his emotions. No matter the sex. Like if someone goes naked in public society will discriminate against him and punish him for antisocial behaviour. Will you defend his right to disgust everyone around with your "But you are discriminating against him, not all men are equal, he is just not like the others and you punish him for this"?[/QUOTE] Well, who really fucking cares if someone is naked You're both hedging your arguments to the point where it very much does sound like you think men showing emotions is a negative trait for men to have. I don't think that's the same as your horrible nudist analogy.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703488]However you are both saying "well we will accept it from a woman, but judge a man on it". I get that men and women are different, but I don't see why that's okay to judge men so fucking harshly on emotion. You say it's not a punishment, but it is because it stops anyone who feels things from being told "That's okay" and instead makes men who have emotional issues in a different way. Then, they are again, told by people like yourself "Suck it up, you can't have emotions" once they already have emotional problems. But no, there's no harm from men having to swallow anything they feel. Nothing bad can EVER happen from that. Right? Wrong.[/QUOTE] I never said I will accept it from a woman. I said I will expect it from a woman more than I will expect it from a man, but I will not accept it from either because it's dangerous and wrong. Where the fuck are you getting your "no emotions" arguments? People are more likely to punish people who don't show emotion because these people feel unattractive and "a bit off".

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703489]Define show[/QUOTE] It's pretty clear what it means.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703480]If you get rejected enough you get used to it and it doesn't hurt nearly as much if at all.[/QUOTE] Not always the case. Different hues of rejection. If you liked someone nearly as much as whatever traumatic rejection spurned you in the first place, that would always hurt just as much. You don't get more used to rejection, you learn how to not place yourself in the line of that much potential hurt.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703509]Well, who really fucking cares if someone is naked You're both hedging your arguments to the point where it very much does sound like you think men showing emotions is a negative trait for men to have. I don't think that's the same as your horrible nudist analogy.[/QUOTE] Alright. New analogy. A man is raping your son. He is just not like ther others, let him do it? Who cares, really? Maybe the people harmed and disgusted by it care. But he is just not like the others?

nothing on playing porn games, phew i'm scot free

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703520]Alright. New analogy. A man is raping your son. He is just not like ther others, let him do it? Who cares, really? Maybe the people harmed and disgusted by it care. But he is just not like the others?[/QUOTE] that's even worse.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703513]It's pretty clear what it means.[/QUOTE] It isn't. Even basic anger can be shown in different ways. For example one way is to be more negative with offensive body language, another is straight up mashing someone's face in. In 1st example you're showing anger but stay in control, in second you lost control of your emotions and let them take over.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703520]Alright. New analogy. A man is raping your son. He is just not like ther others, let him do it? Who cares, really? Maybe the people harmed and disgusted by it care. But he is just not like the others?[/QUOTE] Wow you may be the worst fucking person to make an analogy this month. Raping someone is harming them. Showing emotions is not harming anyone. You have made the statement here that you think "Raping someones child" and "A man showing emotion" are equivalent states of "Wrong". What the fuck.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703520]Alright. New analogy. A man is raping your son. He is just not like ther others, let him do it? Who cares, really? Maybe the people harmed and disgusted by it care. But he is just not like the others?[/QUOTE] Resulting to extremes illustrates you have no grasp on the nuances of this discussion.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703500]Which leads to the inevitable judgement that because they should be in more control, they have to be more in control, and lack of control when it's the only thing that's considered important becomes a standard on which men are judged negatively.[/QUOTE] i hate to be "that guy" but that sounds like a slippery slope if i've ever heard one. i don't have any judgements against men (or people at all for that matter) that might be a bit more loose with their emotions than others, but not having control of emotions is a negative trait in both genders.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703358]Sorry to tell you that, but you are playing the radical feminist [b]"society is wrong, not I need to work on my life"[/b] card. Our view of masculinity is not harmful. It has been proven by history. Society expects you to make decisions, contorl your life and emotions, looking for your place in life and socialising. Society expects you to stand up to difficulties. Society expects you to work hard. Do you see anything wrong with these expectations? Personally I don't. Feminists have a point because women are not expected to have the same traits, society's expectations of them are actually harmful. But men? Hell, you have nothing to complain about. Nobody wants you to suppress emotions. Hell, all the male stars are emotional. Society expects you to not act dumb based only on your emotions - yeah. But that's useful for becoming anything worthwhile. If you don't like what society is telling you - just be yourself. Ironically society respects men that defy laws of society. I mean read a biography of any succesful male of the past. These "harmful expectations" you listed are exactly what brought these people success, power, happiness. Take Bengamin Franklin for example. He never was a "super macho" guy that intimidates everyone arround. Instead he promoted humblness, acceptance, give before you take, listen before you speak, being friendly and avoid angering others. And expectations played a much bigger role back then in 1730.[/QUOTE] Please explain to me how a man, who took time off from playing sports to be a fucking father and then gets ridiculed for it, is not harmful? Everything else you said isn't even worth responding to, but please, explain to me how that isn't harmful.

[QUOTE=Take_Opal;47703516]Not always the case. Different hues of rejection. If you liked someone nearly as much as whatever traumatic rejection spurned you in the first place, that would always hurt just as much. You don't get more used to rejection, you learn how to not place yourself in the line of that much potential hurt.[/QUOTE]I guess it's different for different people. I remember the first time I got rejected and the last time, first one was awful, but last one, eh, been there done that.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703534]Wow you may be the worst fucking person to make an analogy this month. Raping someone is harming them. Showing emotions is not harming anyone. You have made the statement here that you think "Raping someones child" and "A man showing emotion" are equivalent states of "Wrong". What the fuck.[/QUOTE] Eeeeh. Who didn't let you smile, my friend? I am failing to get where you are getting the "men are expected to be emotionless robots" idea. Could you provide an example?

[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;47703537]i hate to be "that guy" but that sounds like a slippery slope if i've ever heard one. i don't have any judgements against men (or people at all for that matter) that might be a bit more lose with their emotions than others, but not having control of emotions is a negative trait in both genders.[/QUOTE] I don't think this is an argument on controlling emotions but more an argument on having emotions. I would be extremely confident that if you had a man and a woman crying in public, the woman would have more sympathy/respect than the man.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703532]It isn't. Even basic anger can be shown in different ways. For example one way is to be more negative with offensive body language, another is straight up mashing someone's face in. In 1st example you're showing anger but stay in control, in second you lost control of your emotions and let them take over.[/QUOTE] To show any emotion comes under a variety of different forms. Is it wrong for you to be distraught when your father is dying? Visibly distraught? I've been told that, yes, just because my dad's dying, I don't have any right to feel or look sad. Keeping your emotions in control so you don't hurt people is far different than showing them in my opinion.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703548]I guess it's different for different people. I remember the first time I got rejected and the last time, first one was awful, but last one, eh, been there done that.[/QUOTE] It likely isn't really all that different between people, you see. I'm sure you had a lot more invested in your first example of rejection, the second time it seems you didn't. Sure you didn't care as much, you knew what it was like, but it's never just one thing and I'm sure both relationships were complexly unique.

Also, you want an example Zerg? Here's a study about male children in the US and Sports Programming, advertising surrounding sports programing, and their effects on male children. [url]http://library.la84.org/9arr/ResearchReports/boystomen.pdf[/url] This paragraph from the conclusion is extremely important. [quote]According to the sports programming that boys consume most, a real man is strong, tough, aggressive, and above all, a winner in what is still a man’s world. To be a winner, he must be willing to compromise his own long-term health by showing guts in the face of danger, by fighting other men when necessary, and by “playing hurt” when he’s injured. He must avoid being soft; he must be the aggressor, both on the “battle fields” of sports and in his consumption choices. Whether he is playing sports or making choices about which products to purchase, his aggressiveness will win him the ultimate prize: the adoring attention of beautiful women and the admiration of other men.[/quote]

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