• Porn and video game addiction are leading to 'masculinity crisis', says Stanford prison experiment p
    449 replies, posted
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703618]Well, because it's from sports media. What do you expect a sportsman to be? Passive world-loving buddist monk? A sportsman need to be fearless, strong, tough, aggressive (in most sports) and motivated to win. So sports media forges it out of him. It's beneficial for sport people. Make such a study on business media and you will find the complete oposite.[/QUOTE] No what I expect is for a man's choice to put his family over a fucking game to be respected and not ridiculed, not told his wife should have had a c-section before the season started so that he wouldn't have taken time off.
[QUOTE=bdd458;47703199]Seriously, fuck this guy. That's not why there's a "Crisis of Masculinity". There's a crisis of masculinity due to our society's flawed view of men and how men are supposed to act; suppressing emotions, 'manning up', that sort of thing. Our view of masculinity is harmful to boys growing up, adult men, and yes even women. A good example of this is the John Oliver bit on Paid Family Leave that was posted in the Videos section. In it, two sports casters berated a Baseball Player for daring to take his [I]measly 3 days [/I]of family leave to be with his new born son instead of playing Baseball, saying that baseball is more important than being a father. Shit like that is the real crisis of masculinity.[/QUOTE] that's a retarded example the pillar of traditional masculinity is being an excellent father above all else, i don't know what you're even talking about but you're way off point and you completely misunderstood the meaning of masculinity, dunno why people are rating you agree porn and video games play an important but not a critical role in the crisis of masculinity today, it's a combination of a whole bunch of little shit like challenging traditional social etiquette and behavioral conducts, like scoffing at the concept of beer and football being manly things and in general satirizing the entire concept of a "man's man". it's not something that just started yesterday either, it's been going on for the past 10 years or so. a new generation of millennial fuckwits who spend their entire days on forums arguing about pointless shit like i'm doing now is also contributing to the problem. although maybe it shouldn't even be categorized as a "problem" in the first place. i guess maybe the needs of society just shifted. there's more demand now for computer savvy "progressive thinking" people than ever, and it keeps growing. more young adults and teens prefer to tap away at their keyboards instead of going out and becoming a lumberjack with a stiff upper lip. simply because there's no reason to i suppose.
[QUOTE=goon165;47703627]so you agree that there is a bias in some cases?[/QUOTE] There is difference and various expectations. But I don't think it's harmful. My idea is that it's natural to expect things from people. But society really has no obscure or harmful expectations from men.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703643]I think I told you like 5 times that every person is expected to have control of their emotions, regardless of age, gender, sex orientation, anything. Men are not expected to have no emotions at all, get that out of your head. Just take a look at a local shiny star kind of guy. Maybe the most admired guy in the office or the most admired guy of class. I bet he is emotional as hell. But most likley he never looses his shit. So he has emotions and he has control. That's my point. Just showing emotions is not prohibited, at least not by wide standards. And fuck the people that told you that you can't be sad.[/QUOTE] Have you never heard of the expectations boys in Highschool grade sports have against them? They're physical ability, masculinity, emotions tested constantly. Theater kids bullied for not being in sports, for singing, for dancing, for being dramatic. Boys don't cry. Not wanting to fuck everything in site makes you some kind of queer. Not getting drunk and belligerent at all chances. This is just in High School. Doing what you want to do and not playing the game of masculinity will get you ostracized at one point or another in your life. At least here in America.
[QUOTE=Melnek;47703697]that's a retarded example the pillar of traditional masculinity is being an excellent father above all else, i don't know what you're even talking about but you're way off point and you completely misunderstood the meaning of masculinity, dunno why people are rating you agree porn and video games play an important but not a critical role in the crisis of masculinity today, it's a combination of a whole bunch of little shit like challenging traditional social etiquette and behavioral conducts, like scoffing at the concept of beer and football being manly things and in general satirizing the entire concept of a "man's man". it's not something that just started yesterday either, it's been going on for the past 10 years or so. a new generation of millennial fuckwits who spend their entire days on forums arguing about pointless shit like i'm doing now is also contributing to the problem. although maybe it shouldn't even be categorized as a "problem" in the first place. i guess maybe the needs of society just shifted. there's more demand now for computer savvy "progressive thinking" people than ever, and it keeps growing. more young adults and teens prefer to tap away at their keyboards instead of going out and becoming a lumberjack with a stiff upper lip. simply because there's no reason to i suppose.[/QUOTE] "Here let me insult an entire population, that I belong to, but will conveniently make myself absent from so I can appear to be better than all of you". I can't help but laugh AT you. [editline]11th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Take_Opal;47703706]Have you never heard of the expectations boys in Highschool grade sports have against them? They're physical ability, masculinity, emotions tested constantly. Theater kids bullied for not being in sports, for singing, for dancing, for being dramatic. Boys don't cry. Not getting married. Not wanting to fuck everything in site makes you some kind of queer. This is just in High School. Doing what you want to do and not playing the game of masculinity will get you ostracized at one point or another in your life. At least here in America.[/QUOTE] As well as here in Canada. I was in a band, I played extreme metal music in high school, and I think that's some pretty manly shit. Yet, because I didn't play rugby on our school team, and being a big guy like I am, I was called a sissy for two years. Truth is I just hate running and was too busy smoking cigarettes to be assed to play a sport. Nothing non masculine there but that was still the insult.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703679]They are expected to control their emotions to the point where they don't readily show any emotions except for whatever the social cue calls for. That seems the same as suppressing it.[/QUOTE] I know a few people that just show what they feel in normal and go all locked up when they feel shitty, opening to only close relatives and friends. Everybody loves them. Including relatives that respect the trust. So yeah you should be in control of your emotions, but it's just a matter of not being an egoist. Yeah you should think what others will feel if you just let it all out. What possible good might come from tlling all your friends about your sorrows? You will spread the emotion to them, they will feel bad. And then start to avoid you because you made them feel bad for no reason. Make them feel good and they will reward you with the same. Generally. Of course its not that simple, there are exceptions and times where its all backward. But you are not expected to be emotionless, quite the oposite.
I like watching Kelly Divine while playing Smash Bros.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703707]"Here let me insult an entire population, that I belong to, but will conveniently make myself absent from so I can appear to be better than all of you". I can't help but laugh AT you.[/QUOTE] i literally said "like i'm doing now" meaning that i didn't make myself absent from anything it's like you're looking for something to be offended by jesus christ
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703686]I don't know where you live. I live in Russia where the society is pretty partiarchic and all men are expect to be masculine. But even here not suppressing anger will make you isolated in days. And showing your gratitude to people and showing good feelings will make people like you. Naturally.[/QUOTE] it isn't necessarily going out quickly, but the tendrils of men being allowed to be more emotional is definitely working its way through, at the very least, the pacific northwest of the united states of america. the ratio of not-traditionally masculine to traditionally masculine men at my community college is definitely a lot closer to being positive than it may have been 20 years ago, as far as i am aware
[QUOTE=Melnek;47703697]that's a retarded example the pillar of traditional masculinity is being an excellent father above all else, i don't know what you're even talking about but you're way off point and you completely misunderstood the meaning of masculinity, dunno why people are rating you agree [/QUOTE]I think it's cultural. Because over here being a great father and raising a good kid is the manliest thing a man can do. I've yet to meet a person who does not admire a great father.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703723]I know a few people that just show what they feel in normal and go all locked up when they feel shitty, opening to only close relatives and friends. Everybody loves them. Including relatives that respect the trust. [B]So yeah you should be in control of your emotions, but it's just a matter of not being an egoist. Yeah you should think what others will feel if you just let it all out. What possible good might come from tlling all your friends about your sorrows? You will spread the emotion to them, they will feel bad. And then start to avoid you because you made them feel bad for no reason. [/B] Make them feel good and they will reward you with the same. Generally. Of course its not that simple, there are exceptions and times where its all backward. But you are not expected to be emotionless, quite the oposite.[/QUOTE] This is the exact shit my mom said to me in high school. "Don't share your sadness with your friends, you won't have any then". Do you have any concept of how fucked up that is to be a kid with friends and then realize, well, I can't actually TALK to you like you're my friends. Then you realize, oh wait, you're not my friends BECAUSE that conversation can't happen. That is straight up harmful. It builds distrust. [editline]11th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;47703737]I think it's cultural. Because over here being a great father and raising a good kid is the manliest thing a man can do. I've yet to meet a person who does not admire a great father.[/QUOTE] Well now you've seen how american sportcasters feel about it, and it's clearly different than your cultural norms so applying yours to ours, really isn't working for you.
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;47703706]Have you never heard of the expectations boys in Highschool grade sports have against them? They're physical ability, masculinity, emotions tested constantly. Theater kids bullied for not being in sports, for singing, for dancing, for being dramatic. Boys don't cry. Not wanting to fuck everything in site makes you some kind of queer. Not getting drunk and belligerent at all chances. This is just in High School. Doing what you want to do and not playing the game of masculinity will get you ostracized at one point or another in your life. At least here in America.[/QUOTE] I agree, school is harmful in that way. I guess it's because children are much closer to animals then adults. I mean they value physical strength and short term goals much less than long term goals and deep personality or thinking. But in 10 years you will find most of these football players envying the theater kids because people gravitate to theater kids. Good point, school is fucked in that regard and bullying is harmful. I have no idea how to fix it though. Doing what you want to do is hard and society objects to it. But when you succeed you get praised. I view it as a game of sort. You aim really high so you get more difficulties. Imagine if society expected that every kid should become a legendary boxer. So there is no bullying for any disabled kid trying himself on the ring. Imagine how many people would die on the ring, how many would waste their lives on box while not being happy. This is why society will fuck anyone who dares to be a star boxer, discouraging all except that one super determined guy. And then society praises him. I think its a good mechanism in the end.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703737]I think it's cultural. Because over here being a great father and raising a good kid is the manliest thing a man can do. I've yet to meet a person who does not admire a great father.[/QUOTE] pretty sure it's global. who the fuck doesn't respect a good father? that random sportscaster anecdote was probably just a playful joke between the sportscasters and the audience and the guy took it seriously.
[QUOTE=Chief Martini;47703214]There's going to be a lot of us claiming he's wrong but recall two things: 1. A lot of us are pretty biased, myself included; 2. This guy's got a PhD in Psychology and has been for a long time-- he knows his stuff, so let's not disregard it too easily.[/QUOTE] Dubya had an MBA from Harvard and Doctor Oz also has a PhD, your point?
[quote]Zimbardo claims that this relatively new phenomenon is affecting the minds of young men. Citing the research he and his team conducted for the book, he says: "It begins to change brain function. It begins to change the reward centre of the brain, and produces a kind of excitement and addiction." "What I'm saying is - boys' brains are becoming digitally rewired." He also mentioned the growing problem of a disputed phenomenon called 'porn-induced erectile dysfunction', or PIED: "Young boys who should be virile are now having a problem getting an erection." [/quote] So is anyone here actually talking about the issue he's discussing when he uses the term 'masculinity'? Because it sure seems like a lot of knee-jerk 'I play videogames and I'm fine' reactions and stuff about ideas of gender roles that have nothing to do with the study itself. The article isn't saying if you play videogames you're damaged, or that men need to be less sensitive and more gruff. It's saying young men are showing signs of addiction and it's compromising their ability to be functional members of society. [quote]In his opinion, the solution is to accept that the problem is serious - parents must become aware of the number of hours a child is spending alone in their room playing games and watching porn at the expense of other activities. He also blamed negative images of men in the American media, which show men as being "slobs, undesirable, only wanting to get laid and being inadequate in doing that." He also called for better sex education in schools - which should focus not only on biology and safety, but also on emotions, physical contact and romantic relationships.[/quote] Come on, guys, if there's a social trend where videogames and porn are leading young men to have difficulty enjoying their daily lives or flesh-and-blood relationships and show signs of neurological dependency, what on earth does that have to do with whether or not it's considered okay to cry when you're sad?
[QUOTE=Melnek;47703764]pretty sure it's global. who the fuck doesn't respect a good father? that random sportscaster anecdote was probably just a playful joke between the sportscasters and the audience and the guy took it seriously.[/QUOTE] uh no
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703742]This is the exact shit my mom said to me in high school. "Don't share your sadness with your friends, you won't have any then". Do you have any concept of how fucked up that is to be a kid with friends and then realize, well, I can't actually TALK to you like you're my friends. Then you realize, oh wait, you're not my friends BECAUSE that conversation can't happen. That is straight up harmful. It builds distrust. [/QUOTE] Imagine if everyone you met shared their sadness with you. Life would be sad as fuck. The point is that you share it with people who are willing to listen. Then it's okay and expected. But you don't press it on other people because you need to vent, that's lack of control.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703781]Imagine if everyone you met shared their sadness with you. Life would be sad as fuck. The point is that you share it with people who are willing to listen. Then it's okay and expected. But you don't press it on other people because you need to vent, that's lack of control.[/QUOTE] Clearly you didn't read what I have said there in clear terms about friends.
Some of the people in this thread honestly have a hard time visualizing the well established archetype of the "outsider". What sort of black-out curtains do you guys run with? I need something that hides all this hideous shit from too.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703723]I know a few people that just show what they feel in normal and go all locked up when they feel shitty, opening to only close relatives and friends. Everybody loves them. Including relatives that respect the trust. So yeah you should be in control of your emotions, but it's just a matter of not being an egoist. Yeah you should think what others will feel if you just let it all out. What possible good might come from tlling all your friends about your sorrows? You will spread the emotion to them, they will feel bad. And then start to avoid you because you made them feel bad for no reason. Make them feel good and they will reward you with the same. Generally. Of course its not that simple, there are exceptions and times where its all backward. But you are not expected to be emotionless, quite the oposite.[/QUOTE] [B]No.[/B] Stop this stupid line of bullshit about this crap. This is exactly where fucking school shooters come from because they cannot open up nor can they even show any emotion. Boys are becoming more and more isolated because we're socializing out the idea of god damn friends, any media showing of brothers being close or two guys being close and everyone's talking about how they're gay and such. We have to stop this shit and realize that boys are and men are emotionally complex human beings who need to vent and the way we're teaching them is through anger, violence and repression, which feed right into each other. You're expected by stoic, emotionally controlled and most of all, dominant and a lot of men don't fit any of those three but we get mad when they don't fit those three or we call them gay. If my mom had not taken me to therapy was I was the second grade to voice my emotions to some guy I didn't even know, I probably would be a lot worse off. I was that kid that got shoved into lockers and treated like shit, if I had not learned early on to voice my emotions and feelings I've probably snapped way before now. And now I wrestle both worlds because I cannot seem emotional or anything and I've actually lost job opportunities because I don't fit the bill as a 'man's man'.
Zimbardo is only well known and trusted for torturing a bunch of college guys to prove that everyone is capable of evil... If anything, I'd be more worried about what men would do to other people than what happens to them - IF what he says is true about the effects of porn and video games (dubious).
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;47703785]Some of the people in this thread honestly have a hard time visualizing the well established archetype of the "outsider". What sort of black-out curtains do you guys run with? I need something that hides all this hideous shit from too.[/QUOTE] I was an outsider in school. For 11 years. Hated every single day of it. I stopped being an outsider to society at around 9 grade when I met friends outside of school. Because I felt that my shut-in life full of games and nothing else will lead me nowhere. So I worked on myself and my life. Only 4 years since I dropped my gaming addiction (still spend some weekends gaming alone though). Unfortunately despite becoming easier with people outside school I couldn't change the dynamic in it up until I quit. I still believe that shit taught me a lot, even though it did more harm than good. I just don't generalise the problem to be a problem of whole society. There were many things that led to it, not some fundamental problem with the world.
[QUOTE]outlining the problems facing young men's social development and academic achievement, which he puts down to excessive use of porn, video games and the [B]internet[/B]. [/QUOTE] [B]Not necessarily[/B], you can get a pretty solid education with the use of internet nowadays. Courses from the most erudite professors can be accessed for free on the web, and through the use of audiovisual teaching, you can get much more in-depth into subjects than through classical classroom routine. And besides, you cut off the time being wasted with breaks between classes, lunch breaks, travel to and from school/university/etc., and you also cut on rent expenses, because you can get the online course education from wherever you might be, free of tuition or boarding fees. And besides courses, there's also documentaries, books, encyclopedia pages, articles, imagery, maps... the internet can be a big pool of easily acessible knowledge, if you want to take advantage of that.
I played American Football for a good 7 years, from like when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade to my Freshman year of High School. I absolutely loved playing it, don't get me wrong, but looking back there is such a toxic culture surrounding it that I didn't really notice until it had actually effected me negatively. I think the biggest example of this was when I was having this really bad Asthma attack, I was in 6th grade at the time. My mom was always there for the practices, along with my younger brothers. One of my brothers was supposed to have left my inhaler on my mom's chair before they went to go walk on the nearby track (That was down a hill, about a good 4 flights of steep stairs). Scrambling to find my Inhaler, I make my way down to my mother, and thankfully my brother had the inhaler on him. I go back up the stairs and there was this one coach, we'll call him Coach Watermelon since he was extremely fat, decided to yell at me for daring to not die of an asthma attack. He told me I wasn't a man for not sucking it up, and as such disrespected the team, the coaches, and my teammates for going to get my fucking inhaler. The only coach that even cared to see if I was OK was across the fucking field coaching the peewee league, not the league I was in. He actually came over to see if I was OK; no one else gave a shit because I wasn't being "enough of a man" and just dealing with it. Not to mention the time I declined a handjob after practice in High School one day from some chick I never knew, a couple of my team mates tried persuading me that she was fine and it was't a trick and that I wasn't a man for declining that offer. All of the shit like that I went through has permanently scarred me. I'm afraid to confide my emotions in basically anyone, not even my parents. That's a problem, and only goes to show the harmful effects of a culture like that, and yeah, it needs to change. Not to mention, there's also the various negative stereotypes of men and fathers in American media and advertising. Dad's aren't as smart, or good at cooking, or they're only an embarrassment for their children and other such negative things.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703723] Make them feel good and they will reward you with the same. Generally. Of course its not that simple, there are exceptions and times where its all backward. [/QUOTE] Yeah cause the fact my father beats me is going to be solved by my friend buying lunch for me, and his shame-hidden homosexual tendencies are going to be resolved if I just smile a bunch. You have no idea how people work, dude.
[QUOTE=godfatherk;47703809][B]Not necessarily[/B], you can get a pretty solid education with the use of internet nowadays. Courses from the most erudite professors can be accessed for free on the web, and through the use of audiovisual teaching, you can get much more in-depth into subjects than through classical classroom routine. And besides, you cut off the time being wasted with breaks between classes, lunch breaks, travel to and from school/university/etc., and you also cut on rent expenses, because you can get the online course education from wherever you might be. And besides courses, there's also documentaries, books, encyclopedia pages, articles, imagery, maps... the internet can be a big pool of easily acessible knowledge, if you want to take advantage of that.[/QUOTE] sadly education and academic achievement are not one in the same. you can educate yourself to being more knowledgeable than most others with a degree but unless it is practical knowledge it will only serve you as trivia
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703772]uh no[/QUOTE] are you even serious right now? how socially inept do you have to be to even assume someone, let alone a sportscaster, will hold baseball to a higher degree than spending time with your kids??? baseball is a passionate sport filled with passionate people, that doesn't mean they can't joke about some guy taking some time off to spend time with his family, or maybe that specific caster was just an idiot. either way, that's not even the point i'm trying to make. it was a retarded example.
[QUOTE=Swilly;47703787][B]No.[/B] Stop this stupid line of bullshit about this crap. This is exactly where fucking school shooters come from because they cannot open up nor can they even show any emotion. Boys are becoming more and more isolated because we're socializing out the idea of god damn friends, any media showing of brothers being close or two guys being close and everyone's talking about how they're gay and such. We have to stop this shit and realize that boys are and men are emotionally complex human beings who need to vent and the way we're teaching them is through anger, violence and repression, which feed right into each other. You're expected by stoic, emotionally controlled and most of all, dominant and a lot of men don't fit any of those three but we get mad when they don't fit those three or we call them gay. If my mom had not taken me to therapy was I was the second grade to voice my emotions to some guy I didn't even know, I probably would be a lot worse off. I was that kid that got shoved into lockers and treated like shit, if I had not learned early on to voice my emotions and feelings I've probably snapped way before now. And now I wrestle both worlds because I cannot seem emotional or anything and I've actually lost job opportunities because I don't fit the bill as a 'man's man'.[/QUOTE] I just vented about my personal (family) problems to my best friend, who is a girl. And oh boy I didnt control my emotions. She listened to me and helped me. Next time I will listen to her and help her. You just need right people you can talk to. They are hard to find, its ok. And why do you give a fuck what the media thinks? Especially when society and media love people who dont give a fuck about what others think. I am sorry for your bullying problems. But there is no need to be angry at the whole world, just the people who made mistakes or harmed you.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703742] Well now you've seen how american sportcasters feel about it, and it's clearly different than your cultural norms so applying yours to ours, really isn't working for you.[/QUOTE] I get a feeling that you try to undermine anything you even slightly disagree with.
[QUOTE=Melnek;47703827]are you even serious right now? how socially inept do you have to be to even assume someone, let alone a sportscaster, will hold baseball to a higher degree than spending time with your kids??? baseball is a passionate sport filled with passionate people, that doesn't mean they can't joke about some guy taking some time off to spend time with his family, or maybe that specific caster was just an idiot. either way, that's not even the point i'm trying to make. it was a retarded example.[/QUOTE] He said things that were purely serious and in anger and you'll still give him the benefit of the doubt? Wow, so you really do feel that masculinity must be angry then.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.