• Porn and video game addiction are leading to 'masculinity crisis', says Stanford prison experiment p
    449 replies, posted
Okay. I need someone to briefly explain to me why this entire thing is different from every "younger generations are degenerate" scare of the past two hundred years. In the 1800's, it was the fear that if women were allowed to wear pants and work then they would become harlots and whores. In the 1920's, it was the fear that if young people drank liquor and smoked cigarettes they would become wastrels and lollards. In the 1950's, it was the fear that if young men read comic books and listened to rock music they would become criminals and homosexuals. In the 1980's, it was the fear that if young people danced to disco and watched slasher flicks they would become gangsters and drug dealers. In the 2000's, it was the fear that if teenagers played violent videogames or watched Spongebob they would become deviants and killers. So now it's 2015, and we're afraid that if young men keep playing videogames and watching porn they will become permanent man-children? What the fuck [I]is[/I] a masculinity crisis? If you cut it one way it's "people won't take responsibility for their actions!" but if you cut it the other it's "people won't become drunken run-away fathers sitting on their couch in their boxers jerking off to jazzercise at 2AM." This is just more generational fear mongering about stuff another generation doesn't like.
If you get a masculinity crysis from watching porn, watch more girly porn (femboys or something) then feel better about yourself knowing you are more manly!
Usually when I'm with a girl instead of thinking about porn I'm thinking about how I could be hanging with the lads since they have a more interesting conversation
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703806]I was an outsider in school. For 11 years. Hated every single day of it. I stopped being an outsider to society at around 9 grade when I met friends outside of school. Because I felt that my shut-in life full of games and nothing else will lead me nowhere. So I worked on myself and my life. Only 4 years since I dropped my gaming addiction (still spend some weekends gaming alone though). Unfortunately despite becoming easier with people outside school I couldn't change the dynamic in it up until I quit. I still believe that shit taught me a lot, even though it did more harm than good. I just don't generalise the problem to be a problem of whole society. There were many things that led to it, not some fundamental problem with the world.[/QUOTE] Yeah I bet all of those problems of yours were the video games.
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;47703820]Yeah cause the fact my father beats me is going to be solved by my friend buying lunch for me, and his shame-hidden homosexual tendencies are going to be resolved if I just smile a bunch. You have no idea how people work, dude.[/QUOTE] That's horrible but not a problem with the society. Just with your father. There is no universal rule you can blame. I think its you that has no idea how people work. Your father is doing horrible things. Does that mean that all men or people share the mindset and do equally horrible things?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703832]I get a feeling that you try to undermine anything you even slightly disagree with.[/QUOTE] Is trying to find the logical faults with illogical statements wrong now?
[QUOTE=person11;47703798]Zimbardo is only well known and trusted for torturing a bunch of college guys to prove that everyone is capable of evil... If anything, I'd be more worried about what men would do to other people than what happens to them - IF what he says is true about the effects of porn and video games (dubious).[/QUOTE] He never intended for the outcome to be as drastic as it was. The only real mistake he made was not ending the experiment sooner than the 4 days he stepped in at.
[QUOTE=Swilly;47703787]Boys are becoming more and more isolated because we're socializing out the idea of god damn friends, any media showing of brothers being close or two guys being close and everyone's talking about how they're gay and such.[/QUOTE] You know, we could probably have an interesting discussion about how isolation through excessive videogame/Internet/porn use is contributing to those issues by replacing flesh-and-blood interactions with other people, [I]which is the entire point of the article[/I]. But instead someone saw the word 'masculinity' and assumed the researcher is lamenting men not being walking stereotypes. [QUOTE=godfatherk;47703809][B]Not necessarily[/B][/QUOTE] Excessive use. Using the Internet to learn is not excessive use, nor is playing videogames for fun. Playing videogames for fifteen hours a day and thinking it's normal, like the example used, is definitely excessive use, but everyone seems to be glossing over that the article is about excessive use because omg my videogames/internet/porn are being threatened by some evil researcher.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703840]He said things that were purely serious and in anger and you'll still give him the benefit of the doubt? Wow, so you really do feel that masculinity must be angry then.[/QUOTE] who gives a shit about the sportscaster, i don't even know what or how he said it. i don't care either, because that's not even the point i'm making.
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;47703847]Yeah I bet all of those problems of yours were the video games.[/QUOTE] The problems started in early childhood. Then I used games as a way to hide from the world. This hurt my personal development [b]big time[/b]. Not to mention my back problems (oh boy that stage II scoliosis is gonna stay with me until I die, thanks happy childhood). And other physical problems. Being a shut in for many years is gonna fuck you up, with games or not. Games are easy to get addicted to so they played a part for sure.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703853]Is trying to find the logical faults with illogical statements wrong now?[/QUOTE]Are you sure that's what you're doing? It looks to me more like you're subtly twisting the arguments to make everyone you disagree with the bad guy. That's not how you seek faults, that's how people who wish to win argue.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;47703822]sadly education and academic achievement are not one in the same. you can educate yourself to being more knowledgeable than most others with a degree but unless it is practical knowledge it will only serve you as trivia[/QUOTE] Practical knowledge can be gained aswell. Either that, or the internet can serve you in making the best decision on wich university to study at. Perhaps choosing a practice-orientated one, applied sciences universities, or others, in the case where you require job-centred skills.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703829]I just vented about my personal (family) problems to my best friend, who is a girl. And oh boy I didnt control my emotions. She listened to me and helped me. Next time I will listen to her and help her. You just need right people you can talk to. They are hard to find, its ok. And why do you give a fuck what the media thinks? Especially when society and media love people who dont give a fuck about what others think. I am sorry for your bullying problems. But there is no need to be angry at the whole world, just the people who made mistakes or harmed you.[/QUOTE] (I was using my personal stake as an example, you could remove what I said it would still matter) However, my point is that maybe you were able to find that friendship, but you said it yourself, that was into [I]highschool.[/I] Girls make lasting relationships way easier and much sooner and friendship development is one of the corner stones of social development. For boys, its stagnated horrifically by the fact that we socialize them to be lonely islands of emotionally stoic beings. Friendships aren't friendships, they're merely ships coming to port. Teenage Male Suicide Rates area actually higher than that of Females, and then as you get to the older parts, Older Male Suicide rates spike as per the norm after losing a significant other, [B]but they never come back down.[/B] They level off and continue that way. Our 'greatest generation' in the United States was only that in name, because so many killed themselves afterward because you didn't talk about the pain and that mentality still exists today. A fantastic book, and where I got my information was written by [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Secrets-Friendships-Crisis-Connection/dp/0674072421"]Niobe Way[/URL]. She started out just asking teenage boys what the most important part of a friendship was, and found that a high percentage actually didn't have a best friend, or even anyone they considered TO BE a friend at all.
[QUOTE=bdd458;47703620]I gave the whole story up there, I even linked the fucking video. Baseball player goes to take his 3 days of leave off since his wife was having their child, misses a couple games because of it, and the sports casters ridiculed him because he dared to be a father above playing a sport. [B]ONE OF THEM FUCKING SAID THE WIFE SHOULD HAVE HAD A C-SECTION BEFORE THE SEASON SO THAT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED[/B]. Like, that's harmful to both men AND women. Gender roles don't exist within their respective gender's vacuum, they encompass both men and women and have long lasting effects on both. And on the large, within American society men are expected to surpress their emotions and "man up". It's the entire premise of the recent documentary "The Mask You Live In" which explores how these stereotypes about boys and men are harmful to male children growing up. [video=youtube;hc45-ptHMxo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc45-ptHMxo[/video][/QUOTE] I don't get where you're getting that gender role stuff from those commentators they're just being dicks which is to be expected since Sport communities are toxic
[QUOTE=catbarf;47703861]You know, we could probably have an interesting discussion about how isolation through excessive videogame/Internet/porn use is contributing to those issues by replacing flesh-and-blood interactions with other people, [I]which is the entire point of the article[/I]. But instead someone saw the word 'masculinity' and assumed the researcher is lamenting men not being walking stereotypes. [/QUOTE] Because they're intrinsically connected together. The American ideal of a mascaline man, if we were to use the media aimed at and consumed by young boys, teenage boys and adult men, paint a picture of what we've come to know as the classical Action Hero.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703871]Are you sure that's what you're doing? It looks to me more like you're subtly twisting the arguments to make everyone you disagree with the bad guy. That's not how you seek faults, that's how people who wish to win argue.[/QUOTE] How is pointing out cultural norms are different between countries painting you as a bad guy? You don't seem to understand the culture here which is pretty important when talking about this culture.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703870]The problems started in early childhood. Then I used games as a way to hide from the world. This hurt my personal development [b]big time[/b]. Not to mention my back problems (oh boy that stage II scoliosis is gonna stay with me until I die, thanks happy childhood). And other physical problems. Being a shut in for many years is gonna fuck you up, with games or not. Games are easy to get addicted to so they played a part for sure.[/QUOTE] Can attest to this, guy in his 20's and still playing games alone (although not to the extent of 15hrs per day) as a form of escapism as I did when I was a kid. Still a shut-in who is a nervous wreck and social klutz. Almost always inside besides going to work and college. No friends. Usually get called the "weird, quiet one." Been told many times to seek help. Probably true. [editline]2:02PM[/editline] That wasn't meant to be a sob story or anything, just wanting to throw my two cents into this ordeal.
[QUOTE=Swilly;47703879](I was using my personal stake as an example, you could remove what I said it would still matter) However, my point is that maybe you were able to find that friendship, but you said it yourself, that was into [I]highschool.[/I] Girls make lasting relationships way easier and much sooner and friendship development is one of the corner stones of social development. For boys, its stagnated horrifically by the fact that we socialize them to be lonely islands of emotionally stoic beings. Friendships aren't friendships, they're merely ships coming to port. Teenage Male Suicide Rates area actually higher than that of Females, and then as you get to the older parts, Older Male Suicide rates spike as per the norm after losing a significant other, [B]but they never come back down.[/B] They level off and continue that way. Our 'greatest generation' in the United States was only that in name, because so many killed themselves afterward because you didn't talk about the pain and that mentality still exists today. A fantastic book, and where I got my information was written by [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Secrets-Friendships-Crisis-Connection/dp/0674072421"]Niobe Way[/URL]. She started out just asking teenage boys what the most important part of a friendship was, and found that a high percentage actually didn't have a best friend, or even anyone they considered TO BE a friend at all.[/QUOTE] I have to admit that this is a real problem. But in our culture for example boys are expected to have a brotherhood of sort where they share anything. Not that it happens often in my circles though. And judging from the media from the west the dynamics is changing. Or at least people say so.
It really seems a fundamental misunderstanding of North America's psychic culture that a lot of the arguments are stemming from.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703893]How is pointing out cultural norms are different between countries painting you as a bad guy? You don't seem to understand the culture here which is pretty important when talking about this culture.[/QUOTE]And you don't seem to understand that your anecdotal person experiences are not fault of society or culture as a whole but only some individuals who are assholes.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703488]However you are both saying "well we will accept it from a woman, but judge a man on it". I get that men and women are different, but I don't see why that's okay to judge men so fucking harshly on emotion. You say it's not a punishment, but it is because it stops anyone who feels things from being told "That's okay" and instead makes men who have emotional issues in a different way. Then, they are again, told by people like yourself "Suck it up, you can't have emotions" once they already have emotional problems. But no, there's no harm from men having to swallow anything they feel. Nothing bad can EVER happen from that. Right? Wrong.[/QUOTE] I think there's a misconception here. I don't think the problem is swalloing your emotions. It never was. I think the problem is just that people don't give a shit about your problems if you're a man, because you're expect to just deal with them.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703905]I have to admit that this is a real problem. But in our culture for example boys are expected to have a brotherhood of sort where they share anything. Not that it happens often in my circles though. And judging from the media from the west the dynamics is changing. Or at least people say so.[/QUOTE] Yeah, for kids shows, the dynamic is really changing with things like the Amazing World of Gumball, which is a start when it comes to television for young boys. But these are recent developments. But then you get into the Teenage Years and, there's really nothing there specifically marketed to them except for anime and videogames.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47703909]And you don't seem to understand that your anecdotal person experiences are not fault of society or culture as a whole but only some individuals who are assholes.[/QUOTE] The people who have done and said the things that they have to me were formed by our culture. They were sportsmen, who like muffinzerg said, have the natural need to be aggressive and competitive to a fault. They were typical people who have been told ALL their lives that showing emotion is wrong. They are people ingrained with this thought who pass it on to all those who they see differing with it. Is that not the case with anyone raised into any cultural norm? [editline]11th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ragekipz;47703913]I think there's a misconception here. I don't think the problem is swalloing your emotions. It never was. I think the problem is just that people don't give a shit about your problems if you're a man, because you're expect to just deal with them.[/QUOTE] And that's better in what way? How is that good?
In Greek times showing emotion meant you were super manly
[QUOTE=Swilly;47703890]Because they're intrinsically connected together. The American ideal of a mascaline man, if we were to use the media aimed at and consumed by young boys, teenage boys and adult men, paint a picture of what we've come to know as the classical Action Hero.[/QUOTE] ??? How are media depictions of action heroes related to Internet/videogame/porn addiction leading to young men being less social, less sexually functional, and less motivated? Did anyone actually read the article and understand what it means by masculinity? It's literally just talking about sex drive and motivation.
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;47703887]I don't get where you're getting that gender role stuff from those commentators they're just being dicks which is to be expected since Sport communities are toxic[/QUOTE] [quote=myself]Men in American society are generally not expected to be emotional, and stuff like that. Fatherhood isn't valued nearly as much as motherhood (even though they're both extremely and equally important) because raising kids is a woman's job, being a stay at home dad isn't a career, if you do that you're not a real man.[/quote] [I]And even then, why the fuck should they be toxic?[/I] [QUOTE=itisjuly;47703909]And you don't seem to understand that your anecdotal person experiences are not fault of society or culture as a whole but only some individuals who are assholes.[/QUOTE] at what point does an overwhelming amount of anecdotes start to point towards a real problem? Because studies, documentaries, you name have seen that this is a real issue in American society. [QUOTE=catbarf;47703861]instead someone saw the word 'masculinity' and assumed the researcher is lamenting men not being walking stereotypes.[/quote] Oh and you. You seem to on average, not actually read what has been said at all. My first fucking post in the thread, since I was the one to bring it up [quote=me]Seriously, fuck this guy. That's not why there's a "Crisis of Masculinity". There's a crisis of masculinity due to our society's flawed view of men and how men are supposed to act; suppressing emotions, 'manning up', that sort of thing. Our view of masculinity is harmful to boys growing up, adult men, and yes even women. A good example of this is the John Oliver bit on Paid Family Leave that was posted in the Videos section. In it, two sports casters berated a Baseball Player for daring to take his measly 3 days of family leave to be with his new born son instead of playing Baseball, saying that baseball is more important than being a father. Shit like that is the real crisis of masculinity. [/quote]
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47703257]How many gamers actually play that amount every day?[/QUOTE] It can't be true. 15 hours a day, 7 hours of school, that leaves [I]2[/I] hours of actual sleep a day assuming he teleports and does nothing else ever. He'd be dead.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47703923]The people who have done and said the things that they have to me were formed by our culture. They were sportsmen, who like muffinzerg said, have the natural need to be aggressive and competitive to a fault. They were typical people who have been told ALL their lives that showing emotion is wrong. They are people ingrained with this thought who pass it on to all those who they see differing with it. Is that not the case with anyone raised into any cultural norm? [/QUOTE] It would be strange to have different expectations for sportsmen. That's their culture and it shouldn't be changed due to nature of sports. If you don't fit the culture you quit it and seek somewhere you fit. Or you push throught like a madman and shape that culture if you are too passionate about sports to quit.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;47703959]It can't be true. 15 hours a day, 7 hours of school, that leaves [I]2[/I] hours of actual sleep a day assuming he teleports and does nothing else ever. He'd be dead.[/QUOTE] maybe he talked to 20,000 NEETs
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47703964]It would be strange to have different expectations for sportsmen. That's their culture and it shouldn't be changed due to nature of sports. If you don't fit the culture you quit it and seek somewhere you fit. Or you push throught like a madman and shape that culture if you are too passionate about sports to quit.[/QUOTE] See, you just keep finding excuses and reasons for toxic hostility to be acceptable because you think it shouldn't change That's not a strong argument. Competition can happen in an environment that doesn't involve straight up toxic hostility like american sports.
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