Hawking on Religion: 'Science will Win' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;22485169]Science and Religion aren't (or shouldn't be) on the same plane of interest. It's like comparing Socialism and Democracy - one is economical principle and other is political. People who directly put one of them against the other one are retarded, regardless of which side they are on.[/QUOTE] More accurately it is like Comparing Dictatorships with Thermometers. One tries to control a group of people. The other gathers data and tells you something useful.

[QUOTE=Cluckin_Bell;22470254]Unnecessary thread, of course he's not religious. I wouldn't be if I had his disease.[/QUOTE] I have met people who have become more religious with their diseases; because it has shown them a new perspective of things and rather ironically gave them some purpose in life. I would go into detail, but some more detail, but lack the time. School.

[QUOTE=sp00ks;22482848]The only reason people think this is because we've all somehow been "brainwashed" by the church etc. Religions all have claims about how the universe works. Science is concerned with how the universe works. The only reason people keep trying to distance the two is because it is so painfully obvious that religions are nothing but failed hypotheses from the bronze age.[/QUOTE] And who are you brainwashed by? Do you really know anything about religion besides what you have been told? Is this your opinion, or is this the opinion you've copied from so many others? [QUOTE=bravehat;22485816]Yup I'm gonna be the guy who does it. Why believe in something that has absolutely no evidence for it, and you're expected to just believe that if you don't obey these 10 special rules then you get to rot and burn in sulphur for ever, and you can never be told or shown otherwise because your god says that you need to have faith. I've asked a fair few religious folk about why murder is wrong, and the answer I get every time is "because god says it's wrong." If your morality is decided by some being that may or may not exist, or you have to be kept in line by the fear of eternal torment, then there's something very wrong.[/QUOTE] So you are basing all of your points off the current Christian perspective of God. You also believe that asking a few likely uneducated religious people questions proves that there is nothing to it. That would be like me asking a high school student about in depth chemistry questions, they know some information but can they considered to be experts at all? If you actually talk to researchers in the area they will actually be very straight forward with you and likely would have a historical answer for just about any question. Your main issue seems to be the whole heaven and hell portion. What evidence for you would prove religion? [QUOTE=Squad;22487689]More accurately it is like Comparing Dictatorships with Thermometers. One tries to control a group of people. The other gathers data and tells you something useful.[/QUOTE] That opinion comes from an obvious bias. You've already determined that nothing good can come from religion which means that nothing good can come from philosophy.

If there was a god, some amazing benevolent all loving force, like religions dictate there is. I've never saw it, I've never saw anything that could indicate the person of some higher power.

[QUOTE=bravehat;22489811]If there was a god, some amazing benevolent all loving force, like religions dictate there is. I've never saw it, I've never saw anything that could indicate the person of some higher power.[/QUOTE] What would indicate that there is a higher power? Also the religion you are talking about is current Christianity's perspective of God. I can assume there are other religions that also have that perspective, but with Christians, God was actually seen to be more cruel until St. Augustine wrote the confessions. Like I've said before, how God has been interpreted is very different in other religions.

A higher power, I dunno maybe AIDS spontaneously disappears, or you know he actually does something to help the world.

-snip to avert shitstorm-

[QUOTE=Pepin;22489573]And who are you brainwashed by? Do you really know anything about religion besides what you have been told? Is this your opinion, or is this the opinion you've copied from so many others? So you are basing all of your points off the current Christian perspective of God. You also believe that asking a few likely uneducated religious people questions proves that there is nothing to it. That would be like me asking a high school student about in depth chemistry questions, they know some information but can they considered to be experts at all? If you actually talk to researchers in the area they will actually be very straight forward with you and likely would have a historical answer for just about any question. Your main issue seems to be the whole heaven and hell portion. [b] What evidence for you would prove religion? [/b] That opinion comes from an obvious bias. You've already determined that nothing good can come from religion which means that nothing good can come from philosophy.[/QUOTE] There is no evidence that could prove or disprove religion, as to prove religion you would have to know everything about all of existence all the time. Similarly, to disprove religion, you would have to know everything about all of existence all the time. Therefore, it's rather easy to conclude that this is an falsifiable fallacy that can be used to justify anything as it cannot disproven, unless you recognize that something that is unfalsifiable isn't evidence for anything. Then you are led to what the default belief is, which is atheism. Oh and nobody better start the "well atheism is a belief" argument, it's as much of a belief is me saying that your disbelief in unicorns is a belief. Also, Philosophy = I should not kill my fellow man if he has not done anything to me because it infringes on his right to live. Religion = Don't kill people because god said so, except the gays, they are okay to kill.

Arrogance? Any example? If god is truly a god, why does he not do godly things, like show himself occasionally and actually help people would be nice.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;22470419]The fuck are you talking about? He was told when he was diagnosed he probably only had 2 or 3 years left. THAT WAS 47 YEARS AGO. If anyone has reason to believe in God it's him. That or he's got more willpower than the rest of the human race combined and we should elect him Emperor of Mankind.[/QUOTE] I would truly enjoy having him as world dictator, where everybody should win.

Hawking is so metal

[QUOTE=Sector 7;22470323]Steven Hawking is the Sigmund Freud of astrophysics.[/QUOTE] Uh, excuse me? Freud barely did anything towards the field of Psychology other than the fact he made us more aware of the unconscious mind. And he was also a pervert. His Oedipus Complex theory is bullshit because I highly doubt most guys have an unconscious sexual desire for their moms. [editline]10:27PM[/editline] On the other hand Hawking has actually contributed stuff that is pretty credible, Freud on the other hand has not.

[QUOTE=VagueWisdom;22496601]Uh, excuse me? Freud barely did anything towards the field of Psychology other than the fact he made us more aware of the unconscious mind. And he was also a pervert. His Oedipus Complex theory is bullshit because I highly doubt most guys have an unconscious sexual desire for their moms. [editline]10:27PM[/editline] On the other hand Hawking has actually contributed stuff that is pretty credible, Freud on the other hand has not.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure Freud knows more about what he's talking about than you. Saying it's "bullshit" because it sounds weird is outright idiotic.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;22491217]There is no evidence that could prove or disprove religion, as to prove religion you would have to know everything about all of existence all the time. Similarly, to disprove religion, you would have to know everything about all of existence all the time. Therefore, it's rather easy to conclude that this is an falsifiable fallacy that can be used to justify anything as it cannot disproven, unless you recognize that something that is unfalsifiable isn't evidence for anything. Then you are led to what the default belief is, which is atheism. Oh and nobody better start the "well atheism is a belief" argument, it's as much of a belief is me saying that your disbelief in unicorns is a belief. Also, Philosophy = I should not kill my fellow man if he has not done anything to me because it infringes on his right to live. Religion = Don't kill people because god said so, except the gays, they are okay to kill.[/QUOTE] Which is the point I was trying to make. It does not make any sense to say "I do not believe in God because there is no evidence". There cannot be evidence either way. I can see the reasoning behind atheism being the default belief, but I also disagree. There is actually a study I read a while ago that showed that people are wired to believe in a higher power. Also, coming at it from another perspective, isn't it instinctual to look at the universe and ask "what made this?". There are many different reasons why people believe in a God, but it is an interesting thought, would a society with no mention of a higher power start asking questions if a high power exists? I feel as though the question is a bit unavoidable. I will admit that most religion is dumbed down philosophy, or more or less philosophical points told by with stories and little reasoning, but I don't think the general mass needs to know the reasoning. I've gravitated towards the belief that few are to be philosophers and all the rest are meant to just accept what they are told, which is pretty much what Socrates says in The Republic.

Not believing in something because there is no evidence makes perfect sense, there being no reason, no proof, no evidence for something to exist is a good enough reason as anything else to not believe in something.

If there even is a god. He sure left this planet a long time ago.

Hi Science will never win Bye

The lack of God in play is a self evident truth that, sadly, many people seem to find easier to ignore.

[QUOTE=Pepin;22489573] That opinion comes from an obvious bias. You've already determined that nothing good can come from religion which means that nothing good can come from philosophy.[/QUOTE] Thank you for pointing out the obvious. Of course it comes from an obvious bias, I am a human being with AN OPINION. And good does come from religion. I didn't say religion was evil. You took the concept of a dictatorship and turned it into an evil thing. Your own mind made it negative. I could have said "Comparing a Government of users choice to a thermometer" Any government you want. Pick one, I don't care. I had no negative thoughts in my post, other than yes a religion is designed to keep order and thus control people. I don't mean brainwashing, I just mean in general terms. People here also need to learn what the word Bias means, IT IS AN OPINION. Of course what I say from my own mind is going to be backed by an opinion. Unless it is a study of some sort, there isn't really a situation when a bias doesn't come in. Other than just spouting off facts. [editline]02:57AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Gummylamb;22496735]Pretty sure Freud knows more about what he's talking about than you. Saying it's "bullshit" because it sounds weird is outright idiotic.[/QUOTE] About what HE is talking about is right. Because he got to make everything up, he was the one leading these studies. Most teachers of psychology that I have run into, agree that the man was fucking nuts and to not take everything he said as fact or even remotely valid.

[QUOTE=Squad;22501488]Thank you for pointing out the obvious. Of course it comes from an obvious bias, I am a human being with AN OPINION. And good does come from religion. I didn't say religion was evil. You took the concept of a dictatorship and turned it into an evil thing. Your own mind made it negative. I could have said "Comparing a Government of users choice to a thermometer" Any government you want. Pick one, I don't care. I had no negative thoughts in my post, other than yes a religion is designed to keep order and thus control people. I don't mean brainwashing, I just mean in general terms. People here also need to learn what the word Bias means, IT IS AN OPINION. Of course what I say from my own mind is going to be backed by an opinion. Unless it is a study of some sort, there isn't really a situation when a bias doesn't come in. Other than just spouting off facts.[/QUOTE] You implied that religion will not tell you anything useful. Perhaps I read too much into it. Also, when I say good I mean useful. A bias isn't an opinion, otherwise the term unbiased opinion would be pretty redundant. It's more your prejudiced. It'll affect your opinion. Don't think I need to go into detail.

[QUOTE=Pepin;22489573]And who are you brainwashed by? Do you really know anything about religion besides what you have been told? Is this your opinion, or is this the opinion you've copied from so many others? [/QUOTE] No one is threatening me with eternal torment, so I'd say I'm not very brainwashed.

Hell is an outdated belief that large parts of the Christian faith have left behind.

[QUOTE=lemongrapes;22470496]I can see why people attack Dawkins, pretty smug, perhaps arrogant. But Hawkins is practically invincible....[/QUOTE] People wouldn't feel that way about Dawkins if he was disabled.

:science:

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;22493887]Hawking is so metal[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://meta.filesmelt.com/downloader.php?file=hawkking.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=PiPBoyV3;22470399]Stephen Hawking is the 2nd smartest guy in modern times, next to Einstien. I wonder if he could've accomplished even more than he has if he wasn't disabled[/QUOTE] Didn't Einstein hold 1/3 of the worlds knowledge in his head or something? Worlds knowledge at the time of course. I think that maybe it was his disease that caused him to be so great. It motivated him. [editline]07:26PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Pepin;22489573] That opinion comes from an obvious bias. You've already determined that nothing good can come from religion which means that nothing good can come from philosophy.[/QUOTE] Quit while you are ahead

[QUOTE=Kybalt;22491217]There is no evidence that could prove or disprove religion, as to prove religion you would have to know everything about all of existence all the time. Similarly, to disprove religion, you would have to know everything about all of existence all the time. Therefore, it's rather easy to conclude that this is an falsifiable fallacy that can be used to justify anything as it cannot disproven, unless you recognize that something that is unfalsifiable isn't evidence for anything. Then you are led to what the default belief is, which is atheism. Oh and nobody better start the "well atheism is a belief" argument, it's as much of a belief is me saying that your disbelief in unicorns is a belief. Also, Philosophy = I should not kill my fellow man if he has not done anything to me because it infringes on his right to live. Religion = Don't kill people because god said so, except the gays, they are okay to kill.[/QUOTE] I don't know what religion you're basing that statement off of, but it sure can't be Christianity. Not correct Christianity, anyhow. Jesus hung out with prostitutes. He hung with tax collectors. He didn't give a crap if you were gay or if you were a murderer, all he wanted was for people to believe in him, and the rest would occur as a result. It's door to poor interpretation by the modern church that any crap like that has occurred at all. If you ever see a person condemning anyone and claiming to be a Christian (which literally means "little Christ,") you should be quick to point out that they're doing a crappy job of living up to the name.

[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22496735]Pretty sure Freud knows more about what he's talking about than you. Saying it's "bullshit" because it sounds weird is outright idiotic.[/QUOTE] Freud was a bit retarded, he thought every problem for a guy could be traced back to how you wanted to fuck your mum as a kid. And if you were a girl that you always wanted your dads dick. :colbert: He was a silly person.

Freud did way more than that. Just keep in mind he's the one that "invented" the modern psychology techniques. He's the one that made popular the "lie on a chouch and tell me things." Unless you prefer the old school method, being drugged.

[QUOTE=Most wanteD;22506129]I don't know what religion you're basing that statement off of, but it sure can't be Christianity. Not correct Christianity, anyhow. Jesus hung out with prostitutes. He hung with tax collectors. He didn't give a crap if you were gay or if you were a murderer, all he wanted was for people to believe in him, and the rest would occur as a result. It's door to poor interpretation by the modern church that any crap like that has occurred at all. If you ever see a person condemning anyone and claiming to be a Christian (which literally means "little Christ,") you should be quick to point out that they're doing a crappy job of living up to the name.[/QUOTE] I don't know why you think I was talking about Christianity. Many religions condem homosexuals. Besides that I only pointed out why it's illogical to believe in god.