"The North Pole is an insane 36 degrees warmer than normal as winter descends" - Polidicks

My fear is it's not going to get noticeably worse until those that deny it die. They're going to die thinking they're right, and us and our children and our children's children are going to be stuck cleaning up a mess we tried to warn about decades earlier.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;51401088]I still can't believe him of all people would do this. And when I say him, I say someone who made it to president. It's like denying everything even though proof is right in front of you.[/QUOTE] Not denial; just greed. [editline]20th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=glitchvid;51401093]Feelings before facts, the Republican motto.[/QUOTE] Money before feelings, if we're talking about the politicians instead of the electorate.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51401070]Wheres Kigen when you need 'em.[/QUOTE] Has he become the Wystan of climate change discussion? :v:

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;51401088]I still can't believe him of all people would do this. And when I say him, I say someone who made it to president. It's like denying everything even though proof is right in front of you.[/QUOTE] Most Republicans and climate change deniers have always placed their feelings over hard facts so it isn't really that surprising. Four years of Trump will either set the electorate straight or they repeat the same mistake and put him in power for another four. Also cash is a big motivation to deny a problem happens because then you don't need to pay to do anything about it.

[QUOTE=bitches;51401096]Not denial; just greed. [editline]20th November 2016[/editline] Money before feelings, if we're talking about the politicians instead of the electorate.[/QUOTE] Most people are not corporation executives. If only the corporate heads denied the science we would have a repeat of the "cigarettes really aren't that bad" era. The fact of the matter is this perpetuates because the populace doesn't believe it. The companies that deny it are surfing that wave.

[QUOTE=OvB;51401094]My fear is it's not going to get noticeably worse until those that deny it die. They're going to due thinking they're right, and us and our children and our children's children are going to be stuck cleaning up a mess we tried to warn about decades earlier.[/QUOTE] This sums up most of the anger and resentment I feel at this election. Knowing that my peers and I will have to clean up this goddamn mess, and that those who voted without humanity's best interest in mind will be too stupid to realize the consequences of their actions.

[QUOTE=OvB;51401110]Most people are not corporation executives. If only the corporate heads denied the science we would have a repeat of the "cigarettes really aren't that bad" era. The fact of the matter is this perpetuates because the populace doesn't believe it. The companies that deny it are surfing that wave.[/QUOTE] The people don't believe it because they trust their conservative politicians whose voices are bought by these corporations.

[QUOTE=OvB;51401094]My fear is it's not going to get noticeably worse until those that deny it die. They're going to die thinking they're right, and us and our children and our children's children are going to be stuck cleaning up a mess we tried to warn about decades earlier.[/QUOTE] It's the way of the world; you either die convinced you were right or live to realize you were the problem yourself all along, skewed more towards the former. And this will never change until people wake up to the reality around them and stop blindly believing things without doing their own research on a matter.

how do climate change deniers think beijing gets like this: [t]https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/beijing-air-pollution.jpeg?quality=85&w=1100[/t] and how do they believe that if we repeal all our green energy incentives that the rest of the world will not become like that?

[QUOTE=meppers;51401131]how do climate change deniers think beijing gets like this: [t]https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/beijing-air-pollution.jpeg?quality=85&w=1100[/t] and how do they believe that if we repeal all our green energy incentives that the rest of the world will not become like that?[/QUOTE] cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias

[QUOTE=bitches;51401120]The people don't believe it because they trust their conservative politicians whose voices are bought by these corporations.[/QUOTE] It goes hand in hand, the populous don't believe the science because either they're general ignorani, or believe they're paid off. The elected officials don't because of the monied interests, probably a little if A and a little of B as well.

[QUOTE=Bradyns;51401092]You mistyped Kelvin.[/QUOTE] In this context Celsius is prefered for scientific publications.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;51401093]Feelings before facts, the Republican motto.[/QUOTE] That applies to both sides on various issues.

[QUOTE=bitches;51401120]The people don't believe it because they trust their conservative politicians whose voices are bought by these corporations.[/QUOTE] They don't believe it because they don't know the science combined with the political smear. It's rationalized by the fact that it's not common sense science to most in their later years, and the TV says it's a liberal alarmist myth. Fundamentally, they don't understand the science, which is compounded and legitimatize by the politics. The politics is just a catalyst. If you want to change people's mind you have to explain the science in a non-condescending manner, that's easy to understand, and that doesn't insult their political leanings or conservative beliefs. They take offense to liberal figures lecturing them about it because it feels like a political attack. It's the same for other social issues too. People don't like to be cornered and told their beliefs are wrong. You have to persuade them with care. It's okay to be a Republican and understand climate change.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;51401093]Feelings before facts, the Republican motto.[/QUOTE] Yep. Also profits before facts, especially when it comes to climate change.

[QUOTE=OvB;51401166]They don't believe it because they don't know the science combined with the political smear. It's rationalized by the fact that it's not common sense science to most in their later years, and the TV says it's a liberal alarmist myth. Fundamentally, they don't understand the science, which is compounded and legitimatize by the politics. The politics is just a catalyst. If you want to change people's mind you have to explain the science in a non-condescending manner, that's easy to understand, and that doesn't insult their political leanings or conservative beliefs. They take offense to liberal figures lecturing them about it because it feels like a political attack. It's the same for other social issues too. People don't like to be cornered and told their beliefs are wrong. You have to persuade them with care. It's okay to be a Republican and understand climate change.[/QUOTE] What happens when they still don't acknowledge it though? It's basically Canute on the shoreline all over again, except they complain this time about the ocean turning the Seychelles, Holland, most of Scandinavia, Sri Lanka, and half the world's islands and coastal cities into the next Lemuria or Atlantis. Or, they'll be complaining about going hungry when the rising temperatures and loss of land make it harder to grow enough food to feed our teeming billions. The issue, at its root, I'll agree, is misinformation on one side and lack of education on the subject in question on the other. I also agree that fundamentally most people don't like to question their beliefs, or don't like them being questioned. But how long will this state of affairs keep going just because a bunch of scumbags greased enough palms and fooled enough innocents into taking a lie for the truth? Personally I feel the average individual could stand to do some more soul-searching when it comes to the veracity of their beliefs and listen to the other side to see what they have to say, but there's nothing to be done when some people are just innately stubborn.

I think the coming years are going to be really important for it. I don't think people should be harassing Trump for his previous statements. Instead, we need people to be working with him, presenting facts and truths to him and his cabinet. We need to show China's efforts, we need to show that the US is lacking, and we need to show that it's profitable and economically important. No Republican wants to die poor, and Donald Trump doesn't want to be known as a loser. What Al Gore said was pretty good: [url]https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/road-forward[/url] The moment you insult people for their beliefs, is the moment they defend it vigorously. This is how we got here. Conservatives insult liberals, liberals insult conservatives. Both double down on their policies. Everyone suffers as a result. It is imperative that we don't insult people for ignorance.

[QUOTE=Karmah;51401065]My city can relate We've always had hideous winters, however over the past bunch of years they've been starting later and later. It's incredible, there have been American cities that have already gotten snowfall, and here we are higher north than them and still have green grass and no snow. I've never seen such a late winter here before. If we could last just 1 1/2 more weeks - until the beginning of december without any snow, that would be amazing[/QUOTE] A couple days ago, it was 80 degrees Fahrenheit for me. 80! A week before Thanksgiving!

[QUOTE=Bradyns;51401092]You mistyped Kelvin.[/QUOTE] same thing

[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;51400989]It's not like this is all America's fault. China is the biggest polluter in the world and if you want to stop global warming, pressure the Chinese government into accepting environmental regulations. Of course America was probably the only one who had the power to do this and now they won't, but still.[/QUOTE] America is the [I]second[/I] biggest polluter in the world, and by a fairly close margin, so it's every bit as crucial we do our part. Given that China is also agreeing to some pretty ambitious regulations as per the Paris agreement, the US is now on track to take their place.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51400939]Good thing our new president elect plans to eliminate almost every existing environmental regulation because he chooses to push the narrative that climate change is a hoax. You think the Syrian refugee crisis is bad? Wait until most of humanity's coastal cities flood, global fisheries collapse, and desertification wipes out our farm belts. Thanks, climate change deniers, and a very [i]special[/I] thank you to President Elect Trump and his cadre of anti-intellectual populists![/QUOTE] Better hope the Emdrive works because were going to need it.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51401438]America is the [I]second[/I] biggest polluter in the world, and by a fairly close margin, so it's every bit as crucial we do our part. Given that China is also agreeing to some pretty ambitious regulations as per the Paris agreement, the US is now on track to take their place.[/QUOTE] Hell, it's even gotten to the point where [URL="http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-problem-with-abandoning-the-paris-agreement/508085/"][B]China[/B][/URL] and [URL="http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/11/17/bill-oreilly-trump-should-accept-paris-treaty-climate-buy-some-goodwill-overseas/214513"][B]Bill O'Reilly[/B][/URL] are directly saying Trump should follow through with the Paris Agreement.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51401438]America is the [I]second[/I] biggest polluter in the world, and by a fairly close margin, so it's every bit as crucial we do our part. Given that China is also agreeing to some pretty ambitious regulations as per the Paris agreement, the US is now on track to take their place.[/QUOTE] but that's so un-american. GUNS! POLLUTION! FREEDOM! FUCK YEAH!

[QUOTE=OvB;51401110]Most people are not corporation executives. If only the corporate heads denied the science we would have a repeat of the "cigarettes really aren't that bad" era. The fact of the matter is this perpetuates because the populace doesn't believe it. The companies that deny it are surfing that wave.[/QUOTE] The populace does believe it, though. Something like 60-70% of Americans believe climate change is a threat, putting us on par with Germany or Britain. Only half agree that it's mostly man-made, but that's still about where Britain or Norway are. The problem is that Republican politicians are deeply in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry, so they don't even represent their constituency that well on the issue.

[QUOTE=Saturn V;51400980]you should use celsius in scientific article headlines[/QUOTE] fyi thermodynamic engineers typically use rankine, which is fahrenheit with a start at absolute zero, and other scientists generally use kelvin

[QUOTE=butre;51401687]fyi scientists generally use kelvin[/QUOTE] both actually [editline]21st November 2016[/editline] also they're really the same so eh

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51400949]So about those crackpot theories climate change deniers have that all the researchers formed a cabal dedicated to falsifying or exaggerating reports about climate change, I'm prepared to bet those people are still going to stick their fingers in their ears and say that all of this is patently false and completely made up.[/QUOTE] Even if they accept evidence of warming, their response is "But that happens naturally, it's not us! And volcanoes! I'll bet THEY did it!"

[QUOTE=butre;51401687]fyi scientists generally use kelvin[/QUOTE] Physicists and chemists use kelvin because they tend to work with equations that need to be relative to absolute zero. Meteorologists and climatologists use celsius because it's designed for human temperature scales. And for temperature [I]difference[/I], they're the same, so "20 degrees celsius above normal" would be "20 degrees kelvin above normal", no difference.

[QUOTE=Bradyns;51401092]You mistyped Kelvin.[/QUOTE] A change of 20°C is the same as a change of 20°K But yeah I was assuming the title meant a change of 20°C/K

Maybe a mod can change the title to: [QUOTE]"The North Pole is an insane 36 degrees [Fahrenheit] warmer than normal as winter descends"[/QUOTE]