James Holmes to enter long-awaited plea in Colorado shootings

[ayejayjay]

[QUOTE=Chief Martini;39893461]The fucked up thing is this guy actually has a fanbase, who call themselves 'Holmies'. Random Tumblr girls who post pics of themselves in plaid shirts drinking smoothies with descriptions such as "Like a holmes!" as if it's a cool thing.

[i]Those[/i] are the people belonging in a mental asylum.

Here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes#Holmies[/url][/QUOTE]

Not like it's worse than the people who say Hitler wasn't such a bad guy and stuff like that

[Bazkip]

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;39893878]You know someone planning out something like this could be the result of that person going crazy for a long period of time.[/QUOTE]

Did I saw he wasn't crazy? No. I'm just saying that labelling it as insane doesn't mean he's innocent, you can be crazy by still know what you're doing.

Neither side can really make any conclusion, really.

[Boxbot219]

[QUOTE=Bazkip;39893950]Did I saw he wasn't crazy? No. I'm just saying that labelling it as insane doesn't mean he's innocent, you can be crazy by still know what you're doing.

Neither side can really make any conclusion, really.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure someone committing a crime that they would not have committed if they were sane should make the crime considered done by reason of insanity.

[Camundongo]

[QUOTE=Bazkip;39893872]But how do you know they he had no control over it? You don't, so you can't make that call. Of course the same applies to me, I don't have any way of actually knowing if this guy was in his (mostly) right mind or not.

What I'm trying to get at is don't just go "Oh he had to be insane to have killed all those people" (which is what botbox was doing) and toss him into a mental care facility because that's not always the case. Murderers may all be insane but not all insanity makes you innocent.[/QUOTE]

I'm not commenting on his sanity, that's a decision for a court appointed doctor, I was just stating what the general basis for legal insanity is.

I'm also not arguing that all murders should be put in a mental healthcare facility, because I'm not of the belief that most murderers are insane.

I might have misunderstood you, it seemed like you disapproved of the idea of an insanity defence as a whole.

[Bazkip]

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;39893986]I'm pretty sure someone committing a crime that they would not have committed if they were sane should make the crime considered done by reason of insanity.[/QUOTE]

But that isn't something we really know would have happened, it's just speculation. It may just be because he was crazy, but there might also be other factors.

[QUOTE=Camundongo;39893987]I'm not commenting on his sanity, that's a decision for a court appointed doctor, I was just stating what the general basis for legal insanity is.

I'm also not arguing that all murders should be put in a mental healthcare facility, because I'm not of the belief that most murderers are insane.

I might have misunderstood you, it seemed like you disapproved of the idea of an insanity defence as a whole.[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah, I'm not against it, I just don't like people slapping it on every case saying obviously this guy had to be insane to do x therefore they're not guilty when it's a lot more complicated than that. I'll admit I did not phrase that well at first, sorry about that. Also aware that you're not saying to throw them all in a facility, that was more directed towards Boxbot, who seemed to be saying that.

[Megafan]

[QUOTE=Bazkip;39894359]But that isn't something we really know would have happened, it's just speculation. It may just be because he was crazy, but there might also be other factors.[/QUOTE]

Then you'd be wise to err on the side of caution rather than jump to have him killed. I mean, if you aren't sure whether it's one or the other, surely the option that doesn't involve killing a human being is preferable, right?

[Steve Harvey]

[QUOTE=Chief Martini;39893461]The fucked up thing is this guy actually has a fanbase, who call themselves 'Holmies'. Random Tumblr girls who post pics of themselves in plaid shirts drinking smoothies with descriptions such as "Like a holmes!" as if it's a cool thing.

[i]Those[/i] are the people belonging in a mental asylum.

...how and why

Here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes#Holmies[/url][/QUOTE]

[Squad]

[QUOTE=Camundongo;39893987]I'm not commenting on his sanity, that's a decision for a court appointed doctor, I was just stating what the general basis for legal insanity is.
[/QUOTE]

False.

Insanity is a decision for a court attorney. It is a legal term not a medical term.

[stupid10er]

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;39893315]I'm pretty sure just tossing a bunch of insane people into prison and calling it a day is a big part of why America's prison system is a running joke.

The main reason I find this dumb is because it seems like the insanity plea is the only real way anyone seems to ever get real rehabilitation in America.[/QUOTE]

because you're going to rehabilitate a person who shot up a movie theater, right?

people seem to forget that the prison system is designed primarily to punish.

[editline]12th March 2013[/editline]

also by your logic every one who commits every crime ever is insane so we shouldn't jail them because everyone can be saved

[Bazkip]

[QUOTE=Megafan;39894442]Then you'd be wise to err on the side of caution rather than jump to have him killed. I mean, if you aren't sure whether it's one or the other, surely the option that doesn't involve killing a human being is preferable, right?[/QUOTE]

Didn't say to throw the death sentence at him either, just that we shouldn't be so quick to say that he's innocent because he must be insane.

[FrankOfArabia]

Just hang that fucker and save him the humiliation of living the rest of his life in prison-rape or drugged up in a mental institution.

[Squad]

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;39893315]
The main reason I find this dumb is because it seems like the insanity plea is the only real way anyone seems to ever get real rehabilitation in America.[/QUOTE]

Because prescribing 100 drugs to a person and locking them in a room is rehabilitation?

[Camundongo]

[QUOTE=Squad;39894541]False.

Insanity is a decision for a court attorney. It is a legal term not a medical term.[/QUOTE]

It's not his either, it's up to the jury based on the testimony of both the defendant and a medical professional, so we both got it wrong :v:

[Boxbot219]

[QUOTE=stupid10er;39894594]
people seem to forget that the prison system is designed primarily to punish.
[/QUOTE]

And this is why people laugh at America's prison system.

Because it is a big expensive joke.

[Bazsil]

[QUOTE=Chief Martini;39893461]The fucked up thing is this guy actually has a fanbase, who call themselves 'Holmies'. Random Tumblr girls who post pics of themselves in plaid shirts drinking smoothies with descriptions such as "Like a holmes!" as if it's a cool thing.

[i]Those[/i] are the people belonging in a mental asylum.

Here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes#Holmies[/url][/QUOTE]

Yes? There are Columbine fangirls too. They imagine themselves as female versions of Harris and Klebold, or wish they could have been the ones to "bring them back from the brink" or some shit.

[OrionChronicles]

[QUOTE=Chief Martini;39893461]The fucked up thing is this guy actually has a fanbase, who call themselves 'Holmies'. Random Tumblr girls who post pics of themselves in plaid shirts drinking smoothies with descriptions such as "Like a holmes!" as if it's a cool thing.

[i]Those[/i] are the people belonging in a mental asylum.

Here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes#Holmies[/url][/QUOTE]

Forget Beliebers, HERE is where we start the idiot cull.

[stupid10er]

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;39894806]And this is why people laugh at America's prison system.

Because it is a big expensive joke.[/QUOTE]

prison systems have been like this for thousands of years and still exist in nearly every other country. check the penal system's mission statement:

[quote]To enforce the law and defend the interests of the United States according to the law; to ensure public safety against threats foreign and domestic; to provide federal leadership in preventing and controlling crime; to seek just punishment for those guilty of unlawful behavior; and to ensure fair and impartial administration of justice for all Americans. [/quote]

i wish i could live in perfect Europe which is obviously free from flaws

[Missing User]

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;39892959]Explain this please.

And this part too.

How does the death penalty [B]need[/B] to happen? How is a man who murders a bunch of people in a theater for no reason not insane?[/QUOTE]

premeditation refers to you plotting before hand to doing it. his house was filled with explosive making devices and ammunition. his car was parked outside the theater and filled with weapons, armor, and ammo. this isn't random.

for him to plead insanity, you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he did not know what he was doing was wrong. especially with his education background, this would be hard.

the death penalty, although harsh, should be here because you don't go premeditate a shooting - killing many - and run a chance of being released back into society. he's fucked up his chances and have committed crimes deemed unforgivable by society. the families of the victims wanted the theater demolished afterwords

[Conely]

[QUOTE=stupid10er;39898133]prison systems have been like this for thousands of years and still exist in nearly every other country. check the penal system's mission statement:

i wish i could live in perfect Europe which is obviously free from flaws[/QUOTE]

you seem to have missed the "to seek just punishment" bit there pal. also i'm p. sure that statement's so vaguely worded that you could slip just about any kind of punishment under there and it would still fit, all it says is that it needs to be "just" which is so arbitrarily defined it might as well just tell you to do "things" and the system will work out just fine

[Missing User]

to clear things up here: society sees him as insane due to his actions, but that's not the same as the courts definition of insane. you must prove that he did know the punishment of his actions. this is very hard to do

[DaysBefore]

[QUOTE=stupid10er;39898133]prison systems have been like this for thousands of years and still exist in nearly every other country. check the penal system's mission statement:

i wish i could live in perfect Europe which is obviously free from flaws[/QUOTE]
Yeah and until a couple hundred years ago we hanged thieves in the town square the intimidate the populace into behaving. Things change, and the rotating doors and gangland culture of American prisons is something that needs to change.