Ron Paul pleases supporters at rally with his ideas of liberty - Polidicks

[QUOTE=person11;34781065]Too bad he has batshit insane views on race and abortion. Otherwise, he seems pretty ok.[/QUOTE] Race is incorrect, an employee of his doing something who he then fires is not the same as him, abortion he wants the states to decide on. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwUAk3bAeoE&feature=channel_video_title[/media]

[QUOTE=Mattk50;34782770]Race is incorrect, an employee of his doing something who he then fires is not the same as him, abortion he wants the states to decide on. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwUAk3bAeoE&feature=channel_video_title[/media][/QUOTE] Wanting the states to decide on Abortion means effectively banning it in all the conservative states. I will not stand for that.

[QUOTE=person11;34782792]Wanting the states to decide on Abortion means effectively banning it in all the conservative states. I will not stand for that.[/QUOTE] The question is, should people be forced to accept something by a central authority?

[QUOTE=person11;34782593]It would send us spiraling down into another recession.[/QUOTE] the entire reason for the recession is because of the federal government's subsidy of fannie mae and freddie mac; the idea that all people should have the right to a home, forcing them to handle mortgages by bad credit holders. this is what happens when you have bleeding heart liberal moral tones attached to economic policy. the idea of the federal reserve in the beginning of its inception was fine; merely a bank for the bankers. unfortunately the reach of its power was extended to the point where it's just been a disaster for this country. utilizing monetary policy to create economic booms is (evidently) a failed Keynesian idea. all these booms do is extend credit to individuals which creates false growth and incorrect price signals, leading to bad investments since credit is so freely available and the risk associated with it is virtually negligible. hence the term "boom and bust cycle", these bad investments cause the bust and the entire economy suffers. unless ron paul is elected this trend in our economy will continue. sure, the gold standard is inherently flawed, but for fuck's sake, why would fiat money be any better? gold cannot be created out of thin air and therefore has an intrinsic value attached to it.

[QUOTE=Hayburner;34782845]why would fiat money be any better? gold cannot be created out of thin air and therefore has an intrinsic value attached to it.[/QUOTE] I just want to comment on this. Gold has no intrinsic value. It has the same value as fiat money, namely, what people perceive the value to be. The problem with gold standard is that it pegs the money to a commodity that fluctuates in price very rapidly. [img]http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/files/041111_Gold_Price_Inflation_Adjusted2.png[/img] Is this what you want the value of our currency to be like?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;34782870]It has the same value as fiat money, namely, what people perceive the value to be. The problem with gold standard is that it pegs the money to a commodity that fluctuates in price very rapidly. [/quote] i think you forgot to read the part where i said gold cannot be created out of thin air. meanwhile you have currency being printed out of control causing inflation. the thing is, commodities aren't negatively affected by inflation. it is more of a reflection of how much a country produces as opposed to what we currently have now.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;34782895]Yes, but only if it's something that furthers human rights. Things like abortions and gay marriage should be legal everywhere regardless of the majority's stupidity and bigotry on the matter.[/QUOTE] But doesn't that in itself fly in the face of Government by Consent and Pluralism? [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Hayburner;34782907]i think you forgot to read the part where i said gold cannot be created out of thin air. meanwhile you have currency being printed out of control causing inflation. the thing is, commodities aren't negatively affected by inflation.[/QUOTE] Where did you get your education in economics? The price of commodities [I]is [/I]inflation. Inflation is how the price of goods and services increase over time. By the way, inflation is important in a growing economy. Deflation or no net inflation are signals that an economy is receeding or stagnant. Gold cannot be created out of thin air, but that just means that you are at the mercy of gold fluctuations as supply increases and decreases naturally. With fiat money you can closely control the money supply via interests rates and taxes -we only print new money to replace damaged money in the economy, not to increase money supply-.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;34782912]But doesn't that in itself fly in the face of Government by Consent and Pluralism? [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] Where did you get your education in economics? The price of commodities [I]is [/I]inflation. Inflation is how the price of goods and services increase over time. By the way, inflation is important in a growing economy. Deflation or no net inflation are signals that an economy is receeding or stagnant. Gold cannot be created out of thin air, but that just means that you are at the mercy of gold fluctuations as supply increases and decreases naturally. With fiat money you can closely control the money supply via interests rates and taxes -we only print new money to replace damaged money in the economy, not to increase money supply-.[/QUOTE] Progressives have frequently advanced in terms of human rights [I]despite[/I] the will of the majority. It is called knowing what is right. There may be a huge plurality of people who oppose Abortion, but the Federal government SHOULD force the States to keep it legal. There is a difference between representative government and mob rule. Mod rule is letting the people do whatever fucked up shit they want to do, while representative government is smarter people making the decisions for the benefit of those who would not have a say in a "mob rule" democracy. [editline]19th February 2012[/editline] Plus, the Federal government is less likely to pass any bill that is skewed too far in the left or the right, making it a lot safer to vest power there, as opposed to States that could swing too far to the left (California) and States that could swing too far to the right (Oklahoma and Virginia).

[QUOTE=yawmwen;34782912]Deflation or no net inflation are signals that an economy is receeding or stagnant.[/quote] no, you would measure the amount the country produces in goods and services for that, hence gdp, so why not base a currency off of that? [quote]we only print new money to replace damaged money in the economy, not to increase money supply-.[/QUOTE] i'm wondering, do you realize how nonsensical that sounds? nations hyperinflate their currency to deal with economic bubbles and recessions, and to also pay back debt, including us.

[QUOTE=person11;34783035]Progressives have frequently advanced in terms of human rights [I]despite[/I] the will of the majority. It is called knowing what is right. There may be a huge plurality of people who oppose Abortion, but the Federal government SHOULD force the States to keep it legal. [/QUOTE] Could I have some examples of this?

if abortion becomes unlawful, I guess its back to the coat hanger..

[QUOTE=yawmwen;34783066]Could I have some examples of this?[/QUOTE] I am pretty a huge portion of the population did not support the Civil Rights act, etc. Gay Marriage has been passed in states in which gay marriage was not supported by half the population. Abortion was considered a sin by most when Roe vs Wade happened.

[QUOTE=Hayburner;34783060]no, you would measure the amount the country produces in goods and services for that, hence gdp, so why not base a currency off of that?[/quote] Again, where did you learn about economics? In a healthy economy there is a slow, steady inflation of prices. As an economy grows, wages and prices all rise because money supply grows. This is a fact. If a sector of the economy is deflating, that is very fucking serious. That's what happened in the housing market, massive deflation. [quote]i'm wondering, do you realize how nonsensical that sounds? nations hyperinflate their currency to deal with economic bubbles and recessions, and to also pay back debt, including us.[/QUOTE] Nations [I]have [/I]hyperinflated their currency, but we haven't, at least not recently. We produce money simply to keep our physical currency supply static(or slowly grow in time of economic prosperity). We don't produce near enough money to hyperinflate our economy right now. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;34783070]You have to force these things through, or wait hundreds of years and let people suffer while the majority slowly accepts a minority's existence. Had the US government never passed the civil rights laws racism would be a lot more common, children growing up in a time where racism is accepted by even the government only breeds more racism. It's the same thing in this day and age with gay marriage, if you force gay marriage to be legalized future generations (well, even this generation supports gays for the most part) would be a lot more open to it because the government's protecting it instead of ignoring it or actively fighting it.[/QUOTE] I disagree. I believe that the Civil Rights Act was merely an acknowledgement of the rights and empowerment that blacks had already taken for themselves through civil disobedience. I personally believe that the road to freedom is traveled through civil disobedience, rather than Federal Law. Civil disobedience looks like a disenfranchised group pulling together to fight against injustice, wheras Federal Law feels like simply using ones power to push the people around.

Also, the recession was caused by a lack of regulations, not government interventions. Government stimulus and bailouts actually lessened the impact of the recession. Keynesian economics! The most basic thing you can learn! Also, another thing that is true, cutting government spending is linked directly with reducing economic growth, which is why Europe is going through a recession right now. Austerity is a terrible idea that would cost the United States trillions in opportunity costs.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;34783115]I believe that the Civil Rights Act was merely an acknowledgement of the rights and empowerment that blacks had already taken for themselves through civil disobedience. [/QUOTE] not even close to all black americans engaged in civil disobedience, the federal law was for them.

[QUOTE=person11;34783162]Also, the recession was caused by a lack of regulations, not government interventions. Government stimulus and bailouts actually lessened the impact of the recession. Keynesian economics! The most basic thing you can learn! Also, another thing that is true, [b]cutting government spending is linked directly with reducing economic growth[/b], which is why Europe is going through a recession right now. Austerity is a terrible idea that would cost the United States trillions in opportunity costs.[/QUOTE] Not always true [img]http://politicsandprosperity.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/rahn-curve-21.jpg?w=630&h=386[/img]

[QUOTE=person11;34783162]Also, the recession was caused by a lack of regulations, not government interventions. Government stimulus and bailouts actually lessened the impact of the recession.[/quote] It was caused by bad regulation, not lack of regulation or too much regulation. [quote]Keynesian economics! The most basic thing you can learn![/quote] Keynes is dead, as is his economic model. It doesn't really work that well for various reasons. There are better models out there. [quote]Also, another thing that is true, cutting government spending is linked directly with reducing economic growth, which is why Europe is going through a recession right now. Austerity is a terrible idea that would cost the United States trillions in opportunity costs.[/QUOTE] This isn't how the economy works. You can't "profit" off of government spending, so you can't really talk about opportunity cost. Government spending, esp. in the form of subsidies, is a wholly inefficient and horrible practice 90% of the time. Also, the European recession has been caused in no small part due to bad spending practices. It isn't them cutting back spending, it was spending too much in the first place(especially in Greece), causing out of control debt. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;34783200]not even close to all black americans engaged in civil disobedience, the federal law was for them.[/QUOTE] The civil disobedience was for the people who didn't participate, and was the thing that got the rights of blacks officially recognized by the federal government.

[QUOTE=person11;34783162]Also, the recession was caused by a lack of regulations, not government interventions.[/QUOTE] did you even read my post? do you even know anything about the housing bubble? this same keynesian policy is what caused the great depression. when government is telling these organizations to buy mortgages from people who simply cannot afford housing then how the fuck are you going to say the government is not responsible? often times regulation is used as a tool by money powers in this country to suit their purposes. its not some magical force that can right all wrongs. if government is large enough to enforce regulations over critical elements then of course corporations WILL take advantage of it. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;34783215]Not always true [img]http://politicsandprosperity.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/rahn-curve-21.jpg?w=630&h=386[/img][/QUOTE] hell yeah mang the rahn curve [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;34783223]It isn't them cutting back spending, it was spending too much in the first place(especially in Greece), causing out of control debt.[/QUOTE] especially since a majority of greece's work force was employed by the government, which basically means no economic growth. what does government pay them with? other people's money that the government collects of course. what a fucktarded cycle that is. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-PdWxPvCHU[/media] lol

[QUOTE=person11;34783162]Also, the recession was caused by a lack of regulations, not government interventions. Government stimulus and bailouts actually lessened the impact of the recession. Keynesian economics! The most basic thing you can learn! Also, another thing that is true, cutting government spending is linked directly with reducing economic growth, which is why Europe is going through a recession right now. Austerity is a terrible idea that would cost the United States trillions in opportunity costs.[/QUOTE] Isn't the effectiveness of the bailouts still up for debate?

Everyone has it's pro's and Con's... if this person win's presidency, i just hope he get this nation back on track for 4 or 8 years until the next election... hopefully the next election has more promising people then shitty people who don't know two shit's about running a country and getting it out of our economy crisis and political bullshitery.

[QUOTE=Laferio;34781096]I honestly don't think problems like abortion are the ones thats crippling the US.[/QUOTE] No but pandering to banks and private corporations does. oh look who's running as a Republican.

i'm with noam chomsky when he says that libertarianism as it is in america is simply corporate fascism designed to hurt the worker for profit. being against abortion is one thing, and advocating that we surrender the country to corporate interests is another thing.

[QUOTE=thisispain;34783541]i'm with noam chomsky when he says that libertarianism as it is in america is simply corporate fascism designed to hurt the worker for profit.[/QUOTE] but what you just described is what is (pretty much) happening now, but it's far from libertarianism, not to mention you credited noam chomsky with that idea which completely bothers me. he's been proven wrong by so many scholars on quite a bit of the garbage he spouts. the "corporate fascism" is a result of big government. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bctRYvUJKe4[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwwXgPiySto[/media]

[QUOTE=Hayburner;34783570] he's been proven wrong by so many scholars on quite a bit of the garbage he spouts.[/QUOTE] Like John Stossel and Ron Paul? Yeah, other scholars like Ronald McDonald and Peaches Geldof have proven him wrong too! Great presentation haymaker. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] I like Stossel's excuse as to why crony capitalism is the governments fault. He blames it on the stimulus package. Which is fucking hilarious as its been around only for a few years. Can you do me and my brain cells a favour, haymaker? source someone not batshit and moronic. That or just go the extra mile and source Glenn Beck or someone like that, even it out.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34783617]Like John Stossel and Ron Paul? Yeah, other scholars like Ronald McDonald and Peaches Geldof have proven him wrong too! Great presentation haymaker.[/QUOTE] why do a vast majority of your posts amount simply to flaming and mockery? i would've hoped for you to contribute a meaningful response but was left in disappointment. chomsky says that "state tyannies" have accountability and that private enterprise would be "complete tyranny". how in the world could the people hold a tyrannical state accountable for anything? it's just a flaw in government. its something for corporations to hide behind. its sad most people simply dont get it.

[QUOTE=Hayburner;34783570]but what you just described is what is (pretty much) happening now, but it's far from libertarianism, not to mention you credited noam chomsky with that idea which completely bothers me. he's been proven wrong by so many scholars on quite a bit of the garbage he spouts. the "corporate fascism" is a result of big government. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bctRYvUJKe4[/media][/QUOTE] you say that noam chomsky is proven wrong on what he says, and then you post a video with john stossel hahha. and how is it not what libertarians want? the government doesn't do anything to reduce pollution even though it's going to destroy the ecosystem, doesn't do anything to provide working families with the healthcare they deserve instead allowing them to be terrorized by insurance companies, didn't do anything to prevent this horrendous recession by making sure people who worked behind the economic scenes followed the rules and speculated within reality, didn't do anything when working people were losing their homes because the banks decided profit was more important, didn't give public ownership to the american people even though they paid for the companies to continue existing, and doesn't provide the childeren of this country the means to get an education which essentially reserves it for the upper class. how does that not fit into the libertarian ideal? ayn rand would be proud of these "accomplishments".

[QUOTE=Hayburner;34783639]why do a vast majority of your posts amount simply to flaming and mockery? i would've hoped for you to contribute a meaningful response but was left in disappointment.[/quote] What am I going to argue against? Vague arguments and a video featuring two sensationalist morons who couldn't understand an economy if it was drawn in crayon. [quote]chomsky says that "state tyannies" have accountability and that private enterprise would be "complete tyranny". how in the world could the people hold a tyrannical state accountable for anything? it's just a flaw in government. its something for corporations to hide behind. its sad most people simply dont get it.[/QUOTE] I do not understand what your point is. You're not making any sense.

[QUOTE=person11;34782792]Wanting the states to decide on Abortion means effectively banning it in all the conservative states. I will not stand for that.[/QUOTE] .... and you think other candidates will prevent it from being banned? Wrong, furthermore his views on abortion wouldnt even be relevant as it would be states deciding. Ron paul is the only one who isnt a slimebag, you might not do exactly what he would, but at least he FUCKING TELLS YOU.

[QUOTE=thisispain;34783642]and how is it not what libertarians want? the government doesn't do anything to reduce pollution even though it's going to destroy the ecosystem,[/quote] the whole environmentalist crap is just sensationalist garbage perpetuated by the banks to raise carbon taxes for their financial benefit. you should learn about climategate. recently the government has funded new nuclear power in one of the southern states, next thing you know "environmentalists" will bitch about it despite the fact that it emits very low co2. [quote]doesn't do anything to provide working families with the healthcare they deserve instead allowing them to be terrorized by insurance companies[/quote] you dont have a right to somebody elses service or livelihood. its a false entitlement. the government sponsors these insurance companies to the point where its basically a monopoly. [quote]didn't do anything to prevent this horrendous recession by making sure people who worked behind the economic scenes followed the rules and speculated within reality, didn't do anything when working people were losing their homes because the banks decided profit was more important,[/quote] reread my post in the thread, government pretty much started the housing bubble which caused the recession. there's your liberal "entitlement" policies in practice. [quote]didn't give public ownership to the american people even though they paid for the companies to continue existing, and doesn't provide the childeren of this country the means to get an education which essentially reserves it for the upper class. how does that not fit into the libertarian ideal? ayn rand would be proud of these "accomplishments".[/QUOTE] it doesnt fit into the libertarian ideal because government wouldnt bow down to any special interest groups (i.e. corporations, the wealthy, the poor, anybody) because small government would be ineffective at serving their interests. it is common sense dude. how could you fundamentally misunderstand libertarianism as some fucked up kleptocracy we have now? here's a really good video explaining it for you: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SovALlOhSg8[/media] [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34783685]I do not understand what your point is. You're not making any sense.[/QUOTE] i figured you wouldn't, because your posts display that low a level of intelligence. feel free to reread it as many times as you need to.

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