[QUOTE=Thoughtless;33631462]In this time of need we need to become closer to our neighbors, help each other, and support and be supported. No country in Europe can survive on it's own easily. I'd say nows the time for the UK to join the euro, so we can tighten restrictions on debt allowance and other shit that money does.[/QUOTE]
join a union based entirely on a currency that is about to fall through its own arse?
ok good idea we needed more debt
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;33676209]I beg to differ; if you've pissed of the Lib Dims you must be doing something right.[/QUOTE]Mister Tory here is lost in his fantasy. I would like to remind you that this is a coalition government not a Tory government. Like it or not, you don't piss off your ally.
But then again, this is the Tory party we are talking about. As shown from the previous EU summit, making friends isn't really their forte.
oh god i'm fucked aren't i
[QUOTE=Moupi;33683401]oh god i'm fucked aren't i[/QUOTE]
You're french. Yes.
[QUOTE=Gilboron;33675005]European culture has Americanized a LOT since WWII, and the other way around. I'd say that's as good an example as any of cultural change.[/QUOTE]
Show me? Americanization such as McDonalds, Starbucks etc - isn't really culture change.
[editline]12th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Caesar;33674874]And England/Britain did it.
This new 26 EU-state "agreement" won't be signed until March as far as I know. So maybe the UK will change its stance by then.[/QUOTE]
If you read back to what I discussed on the union then you will notice that its only dissolving.
[QUOTE=Vasili;33684218]Show me? Americanization such as McDonalds, Starbucks etc - isn't really culture change.
[editline]12th December 2011[/editline]
If you read back to what I discussed on the union then you will notice that its only dissolving.[/QUOTE]
Whether you like it or not, American culture has spread to Europe. It's not just contained in businesses. American expressions, American movies and American music all spreads American culture.
As for your other comment, I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about (the EU or the UK?), but if you're referring to the EU, just because you believe it's "dissolving" doesn't make it fact.
[QUOTE=Vasili;33684218]Show me? Americanization such as McDonalds, Starbucks etc - isn't really culture change.
[editline]12th December 2011[/editline]
If you read back to what I discussed on the union then you will notice that its only dissolving.[/QUOTE]
The number of politicians using argument like "but they do it in merrrica" keeps increasing, which is disturbing to say the least.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;33631816]We already are, at least the major states are any way (like Germany, Britain and France)[/QUOTE]
The UK, France, Germany are hardly Superpowers by themselves,
And I don't think the EU Itself can even be considered a Superpower given that it is a lot of the time unable to get things done due to one country or one group of countries rejecting the other's suggestions, demands. whatever
Just look at the UK veto'ing the EU's new policies not too long ago. how can that be considered a superpower when it doesnt even function?
I think video games got to peoples heads too much. a Federalized European superpower is very unlikley.
[QUOTE=Vasili;33684218]Show me? Americanization such as McDonalds, Starbucks etc - isn't really culture change.[/QUOTE]
in England we trick or treat now, when my parents were kids they never did anything like that. We also have high school proms as well now
One example I know of cultural change is that in Scotland.
About 40 years ago everybody in Scotland used the bastard child of English known as Scots, and was essentially almost its own language. Now its virtually died out, and I hardly hear any of it anymore. What's left it has borrowed entirely from America or the English.
I remember the old term for Halloween trick or treating was called guising, and when a older teacher said that word everybody asked what it meant.
[QUOTE=redhaven;33679952]Mister Tory here is lost in his fantasy. I would like to remind you that this is a coalition government not a Tory government. Like it or not, you don't piss off your ally.
But then again, this is the Tory party we are talking about. As shown from the previous EU summit, making friends isn't really their forte.[/QUOTE]
The Lib Dems are the junior partners in the coalition; if there's a policy conflict [b]they[/b] lose out.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;33686648]One example I know of cultural change is that in Scotland.
About 40 years ago everybody in Scotland used the bastard child of English known as Scots, and was essentially almost its own language. Now its virtually died out, and I hardly hear any of it anymore. What's left it has borrowed entirely from America or the English.
I remember the old term for Halloween trick or treating was called guising, and when a older teacher said that word everybody asked what it meant.[/QUOTE]
Scots died out from the mid sixteenth century because written Scots was increasingly influenced by the Standard English of England due to developments in royal and political interactions with England. Scots was never a bastard version of English, it comes from Germanic language variety. It died out because it was not really treated as a language, not because of culture change.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33685055]in England we trick or treat now, when my parents were kids they never did anything like that. We also have high school proms as well now[/QUOTE]
Except you know
Trick and treating is a British creation.
The practice of dressing up in costumes and begging door to door for treats on holidays dates back to the Middle Ages and includes Christmas wassailing. Trick-or-treating resembles the late medieval practice of souling, when poor folk would go door to door on Hallowmas, receiving food in return for prayers for the dead on All Souls Day. It originated in Ireland and Britain. Scotland had their own version of Halloween called Guising which is still practiced today.
[editline]12th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Caesar;33684575]
As for your other comment, I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about (the EU or the UK?), but if you're referring to the EU, just because you believe it's "dissolving" doesn't make it fact.[/QUOTE]
I guess the fact that the Scottish National Party in power in Scotland (whose prime creation was to gain independence from Britain) obviously is not a clear sign of a failing union.
Just because you believe its not dissolving doesn't make it a fact.
well you know you could have approached the part I wrote about school proms but whatever
and my point is that our halloween has been americanised greatly over the last few decades
eject greece and italy
problems solved
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33689602]well you know you could have approached the part I wrote about school proms but whatever
and my point is that our halloween has been americanised greatly over the last few decades[/QUOTE]
The only thing American about it is the name. Promenades date back to the early 1800s in the United Kingdom. This was the debut of the aristocratic youths to their elite social responsibilities in the community.
Americans are more British than we are to be apparently 'Americanized' by something we actually created.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;33689656]eject greece and italy
problems solved[/QUOTE]
And Portugal
And Spain
And...
[QUOTE=Vasili;33689550]
Trick and treating is a British creation.
The practice of dressing up in costumes and begging door to door for treats on holidays dates back to the Middle Ages and includes Christmas wassailing. Trick-or-treating resembles the late medieval practice of souling, when poor folk would go door to door on Hallowmas, receiving food in return for prayers for the dead on All Souls Day. It originated in Ireland and Britain. Scotland had their own version of Halloween called Guising which is still practiced today.
[editline]12th December 2011[/editline]
I guess the fact that the Scottish National Party in power in Scotland (whose prime creation was to gain independence from Britain) obviously is not a clear sign of a failing union.
Just because you believe its not dissolving doesn't make it a fact.[/QUOTE]
I guess you didn't read [b]" but if you're referring to the EU, just because you believe it's "dissolving" doesn't make it fact.[/b]".
And the trick-or-treating that is done today is not a British/Irish creation. Its origins are British/Irish, but it's become a very different thing since Medieval times.
[QUOTE=Caesar;33690414]I guess you didn't read [b]" but if you're referring to the EU, just because you believe it's "dissolving" doesn't make it fact.[/b]".
And the trick-or-treating that is done today is not a British/Irish creation. Its origins are British/Irish, but it's become a very different thing since Medieval times.[/QUOTE]
[B]If you read back I never mentioned the EU, always discussed the British union.[/B]
The custom of wearing costumes and masks at Halloween goes back to Celtic traditions of attempting to copy the evil spirits, Guising at Halloween in Scotland wore masqueraders in disguise carrying lanterns made out of scooped out turnips, visit homes to be rewarded with cakes, fruit and money along with other treats. The practice of Guising at Halloween in North America is first recorded in 1911, where a newspaper in Kingston, Ontario reported children going "guising" around the neighborhood.
American Halloween is British
[QUOTE=Vasili;33690561][B]If you read back I never mentioned the EU, always discussed the British union.[/B]
[/quote]
Really?
[QUOTE=Vasili;33667863]
[b]Though you've already stated you would restrict freedoms of the press to achieve this. If you look through history, Europe has always apposed and fought against continental wide unity.[/b]
[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Vasili;33657224]
Czechslovakia broke up because both of these nations were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire before the Great War. After World War II, they were bunged together to make one country, even though they had very little to do with each other. The first chance they got after the Russians admitted they could manage their own affairs, they split up due to Slovakia being economically backward and a burden on Czech land.
Flanders now belongs to Belgium and they're a mix of French, Belgian and Roman-Flander culture.
People being so ignorant isn't the reason why the whole world isn't one united landscape.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure all of those countries are part of the EU, not the UK.
[quote]The custom of wearing costumes and masks at Halloween goes back to Celtic traditions of attempting to copy the evil spirits, Guising at Halloween in Scotland wore masqueraders in disguise carrying lanterns made out of scooped out turnips, visit homes to be rewarded with cakes, fruit and money along with other treats. The practice of Guising at Halloween in North America is first recorded in 1911, where a newspaper in Kingston, Ontario reported children going "guising" around the neighborhood.
American Halloween is British[/QUOTE]
Okay, you've just regurgitated the exact same point you made before, so I'm just going to counter it with the same point. Just because it's origins are British and Irish, does not make the act of trick or treating British/Irish. Yes, centuries past, there have been a few recorded incidents of Celtic people dressing up and going "guising", and carving turnips and carrots and what-not, and going door to door and saying "Help the Halloween Party". The American term, "Trick-or-treating" is by far the most widely term used to describe going from door to door nowadays, and pumpkins are now used as a symbol of Hallowe'en. If it weren't for America, "guising" now, would be a largely isolated incident, probably kept to some rural communities in Ireland and Scotland. The entire commercialisation and popularity, and creation of what trick-or-treating is today is due to the USA.
"American Hallowe'en" is obviously based on British and Irish traditions, but that doesn't make it British or Irish. "American Hallowe'en" is just as much British as American football is rugby or football (soccer).
[QUOTE=Caesar;33698978]Really?
Okay, you've just regurgitated the exact same point you made before, so I'm just going to counter it with the same point. Just because it's origins are British and Irish, does not make the act of trick or treating British/Irish. Yes, centuries past, there have been a few recorded incidents of Celtic people dressing up and going "guising", and carving turnips and carrots and what-not, and going door to door and saying "Help the Halloween Party". The American term, "Trick-or-treating" is by far the most widely term used to describe going from door to door nowadays, and pumpkins are now used as a symbol of Hallowe'en. If it weren't for America, "guising" now, would be a largely isolated incident, probably kept to some rural communities in Ireland and Scotland. The entire commercialisation and popularity, and creation of what trick-or-treating is today is due to the USA.
"American Hallowe'en" is obviously based on British and Irish traditions, but that doesn't make it British or Irish. "American Hallowe'en" is just as much British as American football is rugby or football (soccer).[/QUOTE]
No trick and treating has always been present in Britain and Ireland, it never just died out and suddenly was reborn because the Americans started doing it, it wasn't a [I]few[/I] celts like you word it to make it sound minor, it was a major event and has always been a big celebration. As I said, the only American thing about it is the name change. Food changes, the gifts we give change from honey and cakes to sweets and no, thats not an American thing. The commercialization of it is not American.
People have always dressed up for the event, people making costumes for it suddenly makes it American? Because you've always seen Americans celebrate the event?
Guising and souling/Halloween parties have always been popular, the Americans did nothing but copy the event into their country, you don't exactly have proof that it was made popular because of America, do you?
Just because you've always associated these events with Americans doesn't make it an American thing.
[QUOTE=Vasili;33699571]No trick and treating has always been present in Britain and Ireland, it never just died out and suddenly was reborn because the Americans started doing it, it wasn't a [I]few[/I] celts like you word it to make it sound minor, it was a major event and has always been a big celebration. As I said, the only American thing about it is the name change. Food changes, the gifts we give change from honey and cakes to sweets and no, thats not an American thing. The commercialization of it is not American.
People have always dressed up for the event, people making costumes for it suddenly makes it American? Because you've always seen Americans celebrate the event?
Guising and souling/Halloween parties have always been popular, the Americans did nothing but copy the event into their country, you don't exactly have proof that it was made popular because of America, do you?
Just because you've always associated these events with Americans doesn't make it an American thing.[/QUOTE]
I can't honestly believe you are so naive. You seriously think that America hasn't had a large influence on Hallowe'en? You think that all the Americans did, was "copy the event into their own country"? They didn't add anything to it, they didn't project that into other nations? You don't exactly have proof it wasn't made popular because of America. I'll try to explain it then:
Imagine, for a second, that America didn't exist, and never has. What would Hallowe'en be today? [b]At best[/b] it would have a few million people in Ireland and Scotland that go door to door "guising", having some parties and creating bonfires. It would be almost impossible to imagine that these two small countries would have projected this custom to other nations. In fact, if anything, it'd be very likely that this custom would have been diluted by globalisation, and with the influx of other cultures, lost a lot of what it was. Why do you think Hallowe'en is celebrated on mainland Europe? In South America? Even in England? Do you suppose that it is because those places have looked at a rural tradition in Ireland and Scotland and decided they wanted to emulate it? Of course not. I don't even know how you can disagree with that. I've never denied that its origins are Scottish and Irish, of course they are. But the large-scale celebration of Hallowe'en is largely due to America.
And please stop leaving sharp, soundbyte comments at the end of each of your posts. It doesn't add to the debate, and it just detracts from the points you make.
[QUOTE=Caesar;33699927]I can't honestly believe you are so naive. You seriously think that America hasn't had a large influence on Hallowe'en? You think that all the Americans did, was "copy the event into their own country"? They didn't add anything to it, they didn't project that into other nations? You don't exactly have proof it wasn't made popular because of America. I'll try to explain it then:[/quote]
When you look at it from history - no they didn't.
Only thing differen't about it is the name.
People have been dressing up in costumes before Americans did it, people have handed out sweets and gifts to people before they did.
guising and souling wasn't about creating bonfires fyi
you've just always associated halloween with americans so its natural to see why you're so against the idea that its actually a British isle event.
[QUOTE=Caesar;33699927]I can't honestly believe you are so naive. You seriously think that America hasn't had a large influence on Hallowe'en? You think that all the Americans did, was "copy the event into their own country"? They didn't add anything to it, they didn't project that into other nations? You don't exactly have proof it wasn't made popular because of America. I'll try to explain it then:
Imagine, for a second, that America didn't exist, and never has. What would Hallowe'en be today? [b]At best[/b] it would have a few million people in Ireland and Scotland that go door to door "guising", having some parties and creating bonfires. It would be almost impossible to imagine that these two small countries would have projected this custom to other nations. In fact, if anything, it'd be very likely that this custom would have been diluted by globalisation, and with the influx of other cultures, lost a lot of what it was. Why do you think Hallowe'en is celebrated on mainland Europe? In South America? Even in England? Do you suppose that it is because those places have looked at a rural tradition in Ireland and Scotland and decided they wanted to emulate it? Of course not. I don't even know how you can disagree with that. I've never denied that its origins are Scottish and Irish, of course they are. But the large-scale celebration of Hallowe'en is largely due to America.
And please stop leaving sharp, soundbyte comments at the end of each of your posts. It doesn't add to the debate, and it just detracts from the points you make.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you watch too much American TV.
[QUOTE=Vasili;33699994]When you look at it from history - no they didn't.
Only thing differen't about it is the name.
People have been dressing up in costumes before Americans did it, people have handed out sweets and gifts to people before they did.
guising and souling wasn't about creating bonfires fyi
you've just always associated halloween with americans so its natural to see why you're so against the idea that its actually a British isle event.[/QUOTE]
Oh my goodness you can't honestly be serious? You've just said the exact same thing you've said in every post. You are just re-wording your posts and not even replying to my points. I don't think you understand that I know it is an Irish and Scottish creation. And yeah, people light bonfires in Ireland at Hallowe'en, and have done for centuries. It's getting dumb at this stage, you're not even reading my posts, or maybe you are, and refuse to comment on my points. Either way, I'm growing more bored of reading your regurgitated posts.
[b] AND A BIG LOL AT CREATING TWO NEW ACCOUNTS TO RATE ME FUNNIES AND DUMB[/b].
AND TO RATE YOURSELF.
[editline]13th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr Infected;33700055]Sounds like you watch too much American TV.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for that well explained comment.
we're going to have to agree to disagree then
i believe its not and you believe it is :)
[editline]13th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Caesar;33700074]
[b] AND A BIG LOL AT CREATING TWO NEW ACCOUNTS TO RATE ME FUNNIES AND DUMB[/b].
AND TO RATE YOURSELF.
[/QUOTE]
lmao are you serious??
[QUOTE=Vasili;33700085]we're going to have to agree to disagree then
i believe its not and you believe it is :)[/QUOTE]
I believe you fail at supplying arguments, and instead resort to creating new accounts to rate me dumbs and funnies, and to rate yourself agrees. Grow up. And I suspect that Mr.Infected is your alt, or a friend, and you logged in on his account to rate me and you, and to leave that comment. The last post he has before that one is from almost a year ago. Seriously man, grow up.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33685055]in England we trick or treat now, when my parents were kids they never did anything like that. We also have high school proms as well now[/QUOTE]
yeah its true I think they are just British traditions made global through American commercialization
[QUOTE=ewitwins;33631536]How do you guys feel about a Federal European State?
As an American, I pretty much know what it's like for each individual state to have it's own laws and such, so I can't really say that I know how you'll feel if it ever happens. Do you see it as a good thing? Bad thing? Neutral?[/QUOTE]
Terribly bad thing imo and i don't see the point. Too much power in one place.
I am for stricter fiscal rules, but as it is Brussels already puts too much pressure on some countries. In some cases it works, in other cases it doesn't. I don't blame them though, because they are fairly new to this.
I like the idea of Brussels controlling but not restricting things in the EU.
[QUOTE=Caesar;33700116]I believe you fail at supplying arguments, and instead resort to creating new accounts to rate me dumbs and funnies, and to rate yourself agrees. Grow up. And I suspect that Mr.Infected is your alt, or a friend, and you logged in on his account to rate me and you, and to leave that comment. The last post he has before that one is from almost a year ago. Seriously man, grow up.[/QUOTE]
yeah thats totally it i made accounts to make you look bad thats totally it!!
why don't you grow up and stop being so paranoid
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;33689656]eject greece and italy
problems solved[/QUOTE]
You are ignorant and probably don't know anything about the EMU or macro economics. The main problem isn't the economies within the EMU that are doing bad, so kicking them out won't solve any problems. The main problem is that the monetary policy (interest rates etc.) is centralised and handled my the ECB, while the fiscal policies (taxes, government spending etc.) are decentralised and handeled by the governments. The lack of a coordinated and centralised fiscal policy leads to an asynchronism in the economy, as different states respond with different fiscal policies when something happens to the economy. These measures have different consequences, and some might be more efficient than others. Consequently, some states might be in a recession while others are in a upturn. Having this asynchronism makes the monetary policy far less efficient, as different economies react differently to a changed interest rate.
Take Greece and Italy, their economies would benefit from a lower interest rate, but a lower interest rate wouldn't be good for other economies in the union. However, kicking them out from the EMU wouldn't solve the actual problems as they are the symptoms of the problem, not the causes.
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