[QUOTE=Detective P;23881992]Not really. Politicians, mostly, but big-industry leaders and bankers aswell. Wealth by relation, is what I meant, mainly.[/QUOTE]
The only political families that come to mind are the Bushs and the Kennedys. Bill Clinton's family is filthy rich. They just spent on a wedding would I calculated would take me 100 years to make at my current wage. But he made that money through public speaking, book deals, etc... He has as much right to that money as Bill Gates or Erik Prince...
[quote]No...but tax cuts would indeed deny money to projects that would help everyone.[/quote]So does welfare. Stop foreign aid. Stop free healthcare. Stop paying for casinos, etc and spend the money on education and transportation. That WOULD TRULY help everyone.
[quote]I'm not sure if you're referring to wealth distribution or government assistance here, but if you are, then that's not an issue. Or wouldn't be, if certain high-wealth, high-income individuals paid taxes and didn't receive tax cuts.
If referring to industries, corps, ect that receive loans that don't pay back, I agree it's an issue.[/quote]I'm saying more rich people that don't accept government subsidies pay taxes far and away in comparison to people who receive most if not all of their income through the same government pay to play programs...
[QUOTE=Ridge;23882126]The only political families that come to mind are the Bushs and the Kennedys. Bill Clinton's family is filthy rich. They just spent on a wedding would I calculated would cost me 100 years to make at my current wage. But he made that money through public speaking, book deals, etc... He has as much right to that money as Bill Gates or Erik Prince...
So does welfare. Stop foreign aid. Stop free healthcare. Stop paying for casinos, etc and spend the money on education and transportation. That WOULD TRULY help everyone.
I'm saying more rich people that don't accept government subsidies pay taxes far and away in comparison to people who receive most if not all of their income through the same government pay to play programs...[/QUOTE]
..Rockefellers...
And wait, FREE HEALTHCARE DOESN'T HELP PEOPLE?
Wow, you're really good at this whole thinking thing.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23882139]..Rockefellers...[/QUOTE]
Good point. But aren't they all dead?
[QUOTE=Ridge;23882155]Good point. But aren't they all dead?[/QUOTE]
Nope, there's still a large family of them alive, with billions upon billions of dollars. They also have the largest private gold reserve in the world.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23882184]Nope, there's still a large family of them alive, with billions upon billions of dollars. They also have the largest private gold reserve in the world.[/QUOTE]
Well, very good then.
[QUOTE=Ridge;23882126]So does welfare. Stop foreign aid. Stop free healthcare. Stop paying for casinos, etc and spend the money on education and transportation. That WOULD TRULY help everyone.[/QUOTE]
Welfare, foreign aid, and free healthcare are pretty important too and help the middle/lower classes greatly, not gonna' lie welfare and foreign aid can be a little corrupt sometimes.
Also casinos are a good source of revenue, they add to the economy. Also gambling taxes.
Also Jim Perdue.
[QUOTE=Billiam;23882209]Welfare, foreign aid, and free healthcare are pretty important too and help the middle/lower classes greatly, not gonna' lie welfare and foreign aid can be a little corrupt sometimes.
Also casinos are a good source of revenue, they add to the economy. Also gambling taxes.
Also Jim Perdue.[/QUOTE]
There is A LOT of corruption in welfare. Can't say for foreign aid, haven't spent too much time looking at it. But I do know that we should have things working here before we send our money somewhere else to help them.
[QUOTE=Ridge;23882126]\
So does welfare. Stop foreign aid. Stop free healthcare. Stop paying for casinos, etc and spend the money on education and transportation. That WOULD TRULY help everyone.
[/QUOTE]
So...if we stop these programs that use government money to help people...we can have more money to fund these programs that help people!
Brilliant, you totally mooted my statement right there.
[QUOTE=Ridge;23882241]There is A LOT of corruption in welfare. Can't say for foreign aid, haven't spent too much time looking at it. But I do know that we should have things working here before we send our money somewhere else to help them.[/QUOTE]
While I agree that welfare is a currently corrupt concept at times, it needs to exist for the betterment of the lower class. However, it needs massive reform.
[QUOTE=Ridge;23882241]There is A LOT of corruption in welfare. Can't say for foreign aid, haven't spent too much time looking at it. But I do know that we should have things working here before we send our money somewhere else to help them.[/QUOTE]
Things will never work here. Ever. Unsolvable problems are a part of nations.
However, relatively small amount of money can do for more good for far more people when properly applied.
So Ragy, is it still a conspiracy that they're corrupt when you can fucking trace it down to the dollar and cent of each dollar and cent that have gone to each politician? Hell, I'm sure there's un recorded values of money even greater than the recorded values, but I don't need those values to see the corruption that's there.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23882443]So Ragy, is it still a conspiracy that they're corrupt when you can fucking trace it down to the dollar and cent of each dollar and cent that have gone to each politician? Hell, I'm sure there's un recorded values of money even greater than the recorded values, but I don't need those values to see the corruption that's there.[/QUOTE]
But lobbying is NOT illegal. It's not corruption if it's a common and legal practice.
[QUOTE=Ridge;23882506]But lobbying is NOT illegal. [B]It's not corruption if it's a common and legal practice.[/B][/QUOTE]
I disagree. If corruption is:
"Cause to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain."
And lobbying means that a company spends great amounts of money to sway a congressmen from picking the decision he/she feels is right in order for a company to make more money it is an act of dishonesty in the name of personal gain and money.
[QUOTE=Ridge;23882506]But lobbying is NOT illegal. It's not corruption if it's a common and legal practice.[/QUOTE]
it's still corruption. How isn't it? It's still money flowing from corporation to politician in order for the corporation to get what they want. That isn't "fair". That's money buying what money wants. That's what corruption is. Just because there's so much money that money can buy the legality of the lobby industry doesn't remove the fact it's pure corruption. Until poor people have an effective lobby to fight for their rights, it's corruption.
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/image.php?u=161554&dateline=1257657791[/img]:respek:[img]http://www.facepunch.com/image.php?u=204109&dateline=1271383546[/img]
what does corruption have to do with taxation
wealth distribution exists because the government does not exist to cater to the will of corporations, they exist to cater the will of the people and the majority of people need help
The US has been like this since the founding of the republic, it wouldn't have existed without John Locke's social contract ideals
[QUOTE=thisispain;23882661]what does corruption have to do with taxation
wealth distribution exists because the government does not exist to cater to the will of corporations, they exist to cater the will of the people and the majority of people need help[/QUOTE]
I actually don't remember how the argument started.
Something about how the rich don't deserve to be taxed more?
[QUOTE=Billiam;23882708]I actually don't remember how the argument started.
Something about how the rich don't deserve to be taxed more?[/QUOTE]
Rich don't deserve to be taxed more because they earned their money fair and square. That's how it started.
earning your money fair and square's got nothing to do with it
if you declare yourself part of the united states then you are part of its society and sign the social contract which removes some our freedoms in exchange for the benefit of all people
ITT: two white straight christian suburban kids defending the republican idealogy
At least someone is actually trying to create jobs. Everything the democrats pass has nothing to do with it, they just add "and it will create jobs" even if it makes no sense.
And yes, when wealthy business owners get more money, they do hire more workers because more workers means more output so normally, if they can afford to hire more workers and still make as big profits, they'll gladly do it.
And if it only cuts taxes on the wealthy, you're still getting as much revenue from your average middle class citizens but add some more jobs while you're at it.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;23883805]At least someone is actually trying to create jobs. [/QUOTE]
:downsbravo:
as opposed to obama who was trying to score some libers tail
[QUOTE=thisispain;23883854]:downsbravo:
as opposed to obama who was trying to score some libers tail[/QUOTE]
They've both done some pretty stupid things but like I said, so far the Democrats haven't done virtually anything to target the problem specifically.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;23883889]They've both done some pretty stupid things but like I said, so far the Democrats haven't done virtually anything to target the problem specifically.[/QUOTE]
right
[url]http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/[/url]
oh not right
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;23883889]They've both done some pretty stupid things but like I said, so far the Democrats haven't done virtually anything to target the problem specifically.[/QUOTE]
what?
they've have done things and have been TRYING TO do a lot more things, but the Republicans keep saying no to everything they propose
the Republicans are a bunch of babies who are still butthurt that Bush #2 lost the election
[QUOTE=JDK721;23883982]what?
they've have done things and have been TRYING TO do a lot more things, but the Republicans keep saying no to everything they propose
the Republicans are a bunch of babies who are still butthurt that Bush #2 lost the election[/QUOTE]
The Democrats have the majority, the Republicans can't stop anything.
Stop being so against the Republicans that it's making you blind.
[editline]01:04AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;23883889]They've both done some pretty stupid things but like I said, so far the Democrats haven't done virtually anything to target the problem specifically.[/QUOTE]
True dat.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;23883805]
And if it only cuts taxes on the wealthy, you're still getting as much revenue from your average middle class citizens but add some more jobs while you're at it.[/QUOTE]
It also has tax cuts for the employees too.
[QUOTE][B]SEC. 6. PAYROLL TAX DECREASE FOR 2010.[/B]
[LIST]
[*](a) Employees- Section 3101 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]`(d) Reduction in Tax Rate for 2010- In the case of wages received during calendar year 2010--
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]
[LIST]
[*]`(1) subsection (a) shall be applied by substituting `3.1 percent' for `6.2 percent' in the table contained therein, and
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]
[LIST]
[*]`(2) subsection (b) shall be applied by substituting `0.725 percent' for `1.45 percent' in paragraph (6) thereof.'.
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*](b) Employers- Section 3111 of such Code is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]`(d) Reduction in Tax Rate for 2010- In the case of wages paid during calendar year 2010--
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]
[LIST]
[*]`(1) subsection (a) shall be applied by substituting `3.1 percent' for `6.2 percent' in the table contained therein, and
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]
[LIST]
[*]`(2) subsection (b) shall be applied by substituting `0.725 percent' for `1.45 percent' in paragraph (6) thereof.'.
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*](c) Self-Employment- Section 1401 of such Code is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]`(d) Reduction in Tax Rate for 2010- In the case of a taxable year beginning in 2010--
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]
[LIST]
[*]`(1) subsection (a) shall be applied by substituting `6.2 percent' for `12.4 percent' in the table contained therein, and
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]
[LIST]
[*]`(2) subsection (b) shall be applied by substituting `1.45 percent' for `2.90 percent' in paragraph (6) thereof.'.
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ragy;23884009]The Democrats have the majority, the Republicans can't stop anything.[/QUOTE]
wat
it's called a filibuster, it's how the health care bill was gutted
[QUOTE=JDK721;23883982]what?
they've have done things and have been TRYING TO do a lot more things, but the Republicans keep saying no to everything they propose
the Republicans are a bunch of babies who are still butthurt that Bush #2 lost the election[/QUOTE]
Like I was about to say before the other guy, the Democrats have passed plenty of things and can still do so easily. Face the fact that they just plain don't give two shits as long as people think they're doing something about it by saying it will be a side effect to the other junk they pass.
[QUOTE=thisispain;23884069]wat
it's called a filibuster, it's how the health care bill was gutted[/QUOTE]
A filibuster can not stop a bill from passing. Each party filibusters.
[QUOTE=Ragy;23884009]The Democrats have the majority, the Republicans can't stop anything.[/QUOTE]
yes, they can. they can use one of their favorite tactics called fear mongering and Fox will run with it 24/7. they crippled the health care bill by doing that.
[QUOTE=Ragy;23884009]Stop being so against the Republicans that it's making you blind.[/QUOTE]
lol
there's something wrong with being against the Republicans? the ones that fucking have homophobic, racist, etc. views
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