• Germany migrant shelter fire 'cheered by onlookers'
    143 replies, posted
"saxon"? am I missing something?
[QUOTE=Jordax;49788180]Meanwhile, [URL="https://linksunten.indymedia.org/de/node/169431"]left-wing extremists are threatening the museum and the farms in another town of the region this is happening in,[/URL] yet I guess the German media ain't telling you that, huh? A translation for non-German speakers:[/QUOTE] I don't understand how this is relevant? Is it supposed to justify the attitudes of the townsfolk in this situation? left-wing "fascists(???)" threaten with open letter ---> townsfolk response = disrupting public services from extinguishing a fire [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49788216]"saxon"? am I missing something?[/QUOTE] Presumably, the town is in Saxony. German police are organized on a state level along with local level so it's probably just that.
ordinary people cheer the burning of a migrant shelter "what a bunch of nazi idiots" days later "why are far right extremist groups getting so popular??????????" [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] For the record I think the people actively combating firefighters are genuinely dangerous people who should have the book thrown at them.
:snip:
[QUOTE=Jordax;49788180]Meanwhile, [URL="https://linksunten.indymedia.org/de/node/169431"]left-wing extremists are threatening the museum and the farms in another town of the region this is happening in,[/URL] yet I guess the German media ain't telling you that, huh? A translation for non-German speakers:[/QUOTE] Indymedia is a website where any "journalist" can contribute, and I can't find this anywhere else with google. If the news heard about this and could verify it they would do so.
[QUOTE=Streecer;49788039]And the obvious solution isn't to vote them out democratically, it's burning down buildings and stopping fire fighting services from putting it out. Huh.[/QUOTE] When words are not heard and the government and media does as it pleases and ignores the voice of the people then the people will and should rebel. They say violence is never the answer, however thoughtout history, it's how revolutions start and end. When democracy and words fail, it's all you can turn to.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49788213]But it wasn't a synagogue.[/quote] Ah okay. Phew! That makes it okay. It's amazing that you aren't able to see the resemblance. [quote]Again, putting aside the fact that you don't know these peoples politics at all and there is no indicatation that this was an organized heckling by left or right wing extremists, you just decide that they are too stupid to know better.[/QUOTE] What else are those people supposed to be? Left wing? Center? You know exactly where xenophobic and racist views belong to. Well, okay, maybe you don't think people are stupid for cheering on something like that and prevent the firefighters from their work. I do.
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;49788020]This should be expected, when any government ignores the will of the people[/QUOTE] People who turn to arson when they don't get their way are not mentally balanced enough to vote. People who turn to violent acts of intimidation to advance their political agenda are domestic terrorists. Also, you are making it out as if "the people" are all AfD or PEGIDA supporters. [quote]while the country is in austerity[/quote] Oh man, if Germany is in austerity then Southern Europeans must be consuming their own babies for sustenance at this point. [quote]The government must learn [/quote] Through which means?
[QUOTE=Jordax;49788180]Meanwhile, [URL="https://linksunten.indymedia.org/de/node/169431"]left-wing extremists are threatening the museum and the farms in another town of the region this is happening in,[/URL] yet I guess the German media ain't telling you that, huh? A translation for non-German speakers:[/QUOTE] Isn't the ANTIFA letter legitimately terrorism? It seriously says "Comply with our demands or we'll make you regret it." I can understand why a lot of people are pushing right and furthermore into the far-right because of how exclusionary and vicious these groups have become, especially in a bygone age.
This will only keep getting more frequent, and that is no surprise
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49788171]What do you think drives average people to "right wing extremism"?[/QUOTE] In a region which gave [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxony_state_election,_2014]5% of the vote[/url] to nazis while it doesn't even have enough Muslims for them to be a separate category in the [url=https://ergebnisse.zensus2011.de/?locale=en#StaticContent:14,BEG_4_2_6,m,table]census[/url], does it seem reasonable to blame Muslims over "average people" stopping firefighters from doing their job? Hiding behind a mob doesn't absolve you from moral responsibility.
[QUOTE=NoOneKnowsMe;49788255]Ah okay. Phew! That makes it okay. It's amazing that you aren't able to see the resemblance.[/QUOTE] There is a huge difference between an under-construction shelter for migrants and a synagogue as well as the motivations to jeer the burning down of either. [QUOTE=NoOneKnowsMe;49788255]What else are those people supposed to be? Left wing? Center? You know exactly where xenophobic and racist views belong to. Well, okay, maybe you don't think people are stupid for cheering on something like that and prevent the firefighters from their work. I do.[/QUOTE] My point is that this seems to be average people that presumably have a variety of political inclinations. Denouncing it as a right-wing nazi hatemob with no indications that they are right wing or nazis makes you oblivious to peoples motives.
European race wars when
[QUOTE=phaedon;49788321]In a region which gave [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxony_state_election,_2014]5% of the vote[/url] to nazis while it doesn't even have enough Muslims for them to be a separate category in the [url=https://ergebnisse.zensus2011.de/?locale=en#StaticContent:14,BEG_4_2_6,m,table]census[/url], does it seem reasonable to blame Muslims over "average people" stopping firefighters from doing their job?[/QUOTE] I wasn't blaming Muslims for anything and I explicitly said the people who stopped the firefighters from doing their job were in the wrong. In fact I'd say the people just sitting back and jeering are in the wrong. But it's important to understand why they are doing the wrong thing they are doing.
[QUOTE=Ruski v2.0;49788334]European race wars when[/QUOTE] too late
This is what happens when you blatantly ignore the interests of the people in order to suit your ideology.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49788340]But it's important to understand why they are doing the wrong thing they are doing.[/QUOTE] I did mention the NPD for a reason. This can't be dismissed as average people feeling disenfranchised or desperate. The political disposition of the region is hardly a recent development. Here's what the NPD got in 2004: 9.2%, 2009: 5.6%, 2014: 5%. It's not like they are threatening to be a majority any time soon, but for a literal nazi party in Germany, this is ridiculous. [img_thumb]https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2015/09/germany-attacks-distribution2-1024x721.jpg&w=1484[/img_thumb] And clearly, the attacks on asylum centers are disproportionate to the actual distribution of asylum seekers.
[QUOTE=Streecer;49788039]And the obvious solution isn't to vote them out democratically, it's burning down buildings and stopping fire fighting services from putting it out. Huh.[/QUOTE] Great plan, but democracies are by nature, slow constructs, everything bound up in long terms and lengthy election processes, while the migrant crisis has been really a huge issue for a year now. By the time the elections roll around merkle may very well get the boot but not before millions of refugees are entrenched. I'm not advocating any violence against the refugees, but it's pretty clear that the refugees that need shelter are vastly outnumbered by the migrants lured by the promises of stability and the government's of Europe haven't done a thing to prevent the latter while ignoring much of the former and the officials have been too ignorant of the public's response to this situation to really reverse course.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49787810]how do you even blame this on political correctness[/QUOTE] Far left breeds far right, super PC breeds racism, and vice versa
[QUOTE=jonoPorter;49787860]Umm... I don't know, maybe just the PC politicians that completely ignored their citizens when they did not want this many refugees? Democracy at work.[/QUOTE] You can't just not follow international law because they don't want to.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;49789905]You can't just not follow international law because they don't want to. Also, title needs to be changed, these people are refugees not migrants.[/QUOTE] Refugees are in countries like Jordan and Lebanon. If you've arrived on the shores of Europe, you're not a refugee desperately seeking shelter, you're a migrant who's shopping around for the best deal. Don't fool yourself into thinking these people will voluntarily leave.
Well, without condoning or condemning, I don't blame them for reacting like that, it's their country. When you first welcome a group of people, offering to save them for their troubles, and they turn around and start raping your people, you'd be upset too. [QUOTE=Ruski v2.0;49788334]European race wars when[/QUOTE] When Germany converts to Islam. Apparently it's the only way they can make up for WWII... :v:
Obligatory information that setting refugee shelters on fire isn't political participation in case anyone here still believes that. [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49789916]Well, without condoning or condemning, I don't blame them for reacting like that, it's their country. [/QUOTE] It stops being "their" country the moment they disregard any laws, let alone any sense of human decency. [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49789916] When you first welcome a group of people, offering to save them for their troubles, and they turn around and start raping your people, you'd be upset too.[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ. [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49789916] When Germany converts to Islam. Apparently it's the only way they can make up for WWII... :v:[/QUOTE] Jesus fucking Christ.
[QUOTE=uber.;49789918]Jesus Christ. Jesus fucking Christ.[/QUOTE] You make it sound like I'm cheering them, and I am not. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] And the quip is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. Sense of humor, do you have any?
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49789964]You make it sound like I'm cheering them, and I am not. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] And the quip is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. Sense of humor, do you have any?[/QUOTE] To be honest, most Germans are probably actually lacking it when nationalism is concerned. The decreasing standards in political discourse here aren't exactly a joke either. [QUOTE=Sword and Paint;49788020]This should be expected, when any government ignores the will of the people and allows millions of people from an entirely different culture to come settle and get free shelter, food and promise of work, while the country is in austerity, where many families are living on next to nothing and thousands are homeless, do you really expect people to stand by and do nothing? The government must learn that they are only in-place to uphold the will of the people, Merkel has done exactly the opposite.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://archive.is/csTLY"]Look at the polls.[/URL] They're shifting slowly, but the parties (more or less) supporting taking in refugees (CDU, SPD afaik, GRÜNE, DIE LINKE) still have a vast majority. (No idea about the FDP.) DIE LINKE is actually gaining in the polls, and they're the most left-wing significant party we have. Now please explain to me in what way the government is "going against the will of the people" in this country. Not to mention your homelessness claims are utterly uninformed in this situation. Germany's social security system is easily enough to provide at least shelter, food and health insurance. If someone's homeless here, lack of individual resources isn't the issue.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49789916]Well, without condoning or condemning, I don't blame them for reacting like that, it's their country. When you first welcome a group of people, offering to save them for their troubles, and they turn around and start raping your people, you'd be upset too. When Germany converts to Islam. Apparently it's the only way they can make up for WWII... :v:[/QUOTE] What is this generalization? Do I have to burn down empty banks now because Banksters destroyed billions in worth of money ? Do the Greeks now have to burn down their banks because child mortality has been sharply rising because of the banking crysis? Do you listen to yourself? [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;49789776]Great plan, but democracies are by nature, slow constructs, everything bound up in long terms and lengthy election processes, while the migrant crisis has been really a huge issue for a year now. By the time the elections roll around merkle may very well get the boot but not before millions of refugees are entrenched. I'm not advocating any violence against the refugees, but it's pretty clear that the refugees that need shelter are vastly outnumbered by the migrants lured by the promises of stability and the government's of Europe haven't done a thing to prevent the latter while ignoring much of the former and the officials have been too ignorant of the public's response to this situation to really reverse course.[/QUOTE] Better burn down some shit instead, huh? What the fuck is wrong with you people? [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;49788327]There is a huge difference between an under-construction shelter for migrants and a synagogue as well as the motivations to jeer the burning down of either. My point is that this seems to be average people that presumably have a variety of political inclinations. Denouncing it as a right-wing nazi hatemob with no indications that they are right wing or nazis makes you oblivious to peoples motives.[/QUOTE] They are not average people though. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] The guy who was appointed to admistrate the home was in the AfD. Great. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] Wait this is a different incident. THere was another one where people threatened refugees in a bus and the police reacted by brutally tugging them out of the bus. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] In case anyone of you guys don't know, this was the last time people cheered a burning refugee building. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJMymlglAg[/media] [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] That time it was Vietnamese people. Were they also "not compatible" ? Was this also the government not listening to their people? That time there were persons in the building.
[QUOTE=proch;49789815]Far left breeds far right, super PC breeds racism, and vice versa[/QUOTE] Super PC isn't really a thing over here though, at least compared to English-language countries. We have the plain old left-wing (setting cars on fire) and right-wing (setting buildings on fire) extremism though (with violent clashes between the factions). Right-wing extremism is [I]currently[/I] the larger issue in terms of damage done, but both are definitely a problem. It would be really great if all those people could handle being disagreed with with some decency. Somewhat like uber. said: It stops being "their country" when they become violent against other residents or their property (or that of the state, for that matter, but that amounts to the same) just because they aren't treated like royalty who can disregard others' opinions.
This is the other incident [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq1UF8qT4ik[/media] 0:56 Are you reallly trying to defend this Raidyr, Jordaxx, Shovel Mech?
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790033][...][/QUOTE] While I agree with you, it would be nice if you could try to not escalate the discussion further. I really don't think this confrontational approach or your (in the cases where it applies) assumptions about the extent of political stances really help anyone involved here. Well, it might help the extremists you're trying to combat, but those don't seem to be too prominent on Facepunch. What we see here seem to be more the waves made by misinformation campaigns. It's great that you come into these threads with further information and explain things/resolve misconceptions, but I think that would be more effective if you read a bit closer what specific people here [I]don't[/I] say. That way you could counter the arguments without taking out the rhetoric equivalent of a wooden mallet all the time.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790120] Are you reallly trying to defend this Raidyr, Jordaxx, Shovel Mech?[/QUOTE] I've explicitly stated not once but twice that I don't defend their actions. Maybe you should interrupt your moral crusade for a second to actually read the posts you are replying to.
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