• Germany migrant shelter fire 'cheered by onlookers'
    143 replies, posted
I hate saying this in every thread about migrants, but.. How much more 'till they realize that nobody wanted to accept such a large scale of refugees?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49790242]I've explicitly stated not once but twice that I don't defend their actions. Maybe you should interrupt your moral crusade for a second to actually read the posts you are replying to.[/QUOTE] Absoluting the people of the responsibility for their own actions is essentially defending them. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Tools;49790289]I hate saying this in every thread about migrants, but.. How much more 'till they realize that nobody wanted to accept such a large scale of refugees?[/QUOTE] Actually most Germans want to. And do. And what large scale? Bautzen has 40k people. Even if the home sheltered 1k refugees (which it wasn't supposed to) that would be 2.5%.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790296] [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] Actually most Germans want to. And do.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.dw.com/en/poll-germans-increasingly-skeptical-of-refugees/a-18982943"]Comforting lies.[/URL]
"Poor job handling the crisis" is not the same as refusing refugees. [quote]The rising negative sentiment appears in part a reflection of hundreds of alleged sexual assaults on women by North African and Arab men on New Year's Eve, with nearly one-third of respondents saying the attacks had an impact on their opinion of refugees. Two-thirds said the attacks in Cologne and other cities had little impact on their opinion on refugee issues.[/quote] Basically the same mistake of judging people by the actions of a few.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790296]Absoluting the people of the responsibility for their own actions is essentially defending them.[/QUOTE] I'm going to assume you mean to say absolving to which I will say, again, for the fourth time now, I am absolving nobody of anything. Tamschi, find someone else to be a cheerleader for. You are too good for this kid.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790313]"Poor job handling the crisis" is not the same as refusing refugees.[/QUOTE] 63%, the majority, do not believe that the crisis is manageable at current levels. They do not want this. In the East, you have even less support for migration.
Another [URL="https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/01/12/germans-attitudes-immigration-harden-following-col/"]poll[/URL] saying 18% think Germany could use more migrants
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49790316]I'm going to assume you mean to say absolving to which I will say, again, for the fourth time now, I am absolving nobody of anything. Tamschi, find someone else to be a cheerleader for. You are too good for this kid.[/QUOTE] I meant absolving. And people cheering on the burning of a refugee shelter is by definition a hate mob. [quote] Denouncing it as a right-wing nazi hatemob with no indications that they are right wing or nazis makes you oblivious to peoples motives.[/quote] Nobody is denouncing anyone. It is, factually, a right wing nazi hate mob in the very moment they start shouting and actively hindering te work of firemen. By saying that people are "denouncing" them as such you are implying that they aren't. This is absolving. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;49790322]Another [URL="https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/01/12/germans-attitudes-immigration-harden-following-col/"]poll[/URL] saying 18% think Germany could use more migrants[/QUOTE] Yes, a poll directly during the biggest media shit campaign ever we've seen for years. 8th-11th of january. When every mainstream media was still reporting a 1000 people rape squad that has now been narrowed down to ~400.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790120]This is the other incident 0:56 Are you reallly trying to defend this Raidyr, Jordaxx, Shovel Mech?[/QUOTE] Interesting that you post this, because the people in there have shown no sign of respect for the police and the protesters and actually have shown them the middle finger and even done the "I'm going to cut your head off"-gesture. Then there's also that woman spitting on the bus window and, you know, if every other person did the same, the same thing would happen. You don't listen to the police? Things get rougher (and in this case it would have been easier to bring the refugees into the shelter than clear up the mob)
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790331]I meant absolving. And people cheering on the burning of a refugee shelter is by definition a hate mob. Nobody is denouncing anyone. It is, factually, a right wing nazi hate mob in the very moment they start shouting. By saying that people are "denouncing" them as such you are implying that they aren't. This is absolving.[/QUOTE] I'm absolving them of being right-wing nazis because nothing has been put forward to prove this. I'm not absolving them of their actions. Great analysis. The implication from you and someone else who also forgot to source or cite any of the bullshit he typed is that being anti-migrant intrinsically makes you both a right-winger and a Nazi which is nonsense. [QUOTE=Killuah;49790331]Yes, a poll directly during the biggest media shit campaign ever we've seen for years. 8th-11th of january. When every mainstream media was still reporting a 1000 people rape squad that has now been narrowed down to ~400.[/QUOTE] Oh boy only 400 well I'm sure women in Germany feel safe now. Between these new figures and your politicians suggesting new rules of ettiquite for women, suggesting to keep an arms length from everyone and to avoid walking down certain streets in their own cities, it's hard to believe right-wing nationalism is on the rise in Germany.
[quote]I'm absolving them of being right-wing nazis because nothing has been put forward to prove this. I'm not absolving them of their actions. Great analysis. [/quote] Except their very actions of cheering the burning of a refugee shelter? Be anti-migrant all you want. This is a refugee shelter. Go vote anti-migrant parties, that's democracy after all.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790366]Except their very actions of cheering the burning of a refugee shelter?[/QUOTE] This doesn't make someone a Nazi nor do you have to be right-wing in your beliefs to do this.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49790369]This doesn't make someone a Nazi nor do you have to be right-wing in your beliefs to do this.[/QUOTE] Why? They are not cheering it because they like the sight of flames so much.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790372]Why? They are not cheering it because they like the sight of flames so much.[/QUOTE] They are cheering it, presumably, because it means migrants that were going to be in their community will no longer be housed there, or plans to house them there will be delayed. Given the lack of evidence that these people are specifically Nazi's or right-wing in political inclination, the first question should be "Why are these people cheering?". What compels seemingly normal, average, working class people to show up to a burning building and cheer, or even have the gall to prevent the flames from being extinguished? What pushes a person to place themselves between an inferno and a firefighter, knowing full well it could see them arrested? It shouldn't be to immediately accuse them of being right-wing nazi extremists who aren't "average people". After all, no true German is anti-immigrant. This creates a blindspot that actual far-right groups are eager to take advantage of.
They are cheering the burning of a building because of their anti-refugee(not migrant, the fact that you still use that terms is another thing about how your language tells a lot) opinions. They are promoting violence and destruction because of their fear/hate of foreigners. How is that not "right wing in political inclination"? [quote] normal, average, working class people[/quote] We don't know what kind of people attended this. Only that they cheered the burning of a building. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] [url]https://www.facebook.com/panorama.de/videos/755304037940602/?fref=nf[/url] This is a video comparing interviews of "Concerened Citizens" of today against the interiews of Lichtenhagen 1992 when people burned a migrant(not refugee) home with PEOPLE INSIDE! "I am not a nazi" "they a parasites" "they have no culture" "they steal they shit everywhere" "I am an average citizen"
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49787932]That isn't democracy it's anarchy.[/QUOTE] What are you even talking about. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;49790372]Why? They are not cheering it because they like the sight of flames so much.[/QUOTE] So someone who hates migrants or are right wing are instantly a nazi in your opinion? You are what is wrong with germany.
[QUOTE=Adarrek;49790522]What are you even talking about. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] So someone who hates migrants or are right wing are instantly a nazi in your opinion? You are what is wrong with germany.[/QUOTE] No. Someone who evicts terror through arson and promoting arson however is. Anyone who [I]hates[/I] on a whole group of people is an idiot though and I am aware of the irony of that statement.
Probably just a vocal minority cheering.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49787810]how do you even blame this on political correctness[/QUOTE] Very easily. When people can't voice their opinion and are forced into policies and taken money from they get angry.
If you're upset about how your government handles immigrants, you should be angry at the government, not the refugees. By hurting refugees you're not going to achieve anything except prison time. Nor is it their fault really. Government accepted them, thus it is responsible. Individual immigrants can do shit and should be punished accordingly, but as a whole group getting blamed for a thing some of them did is very bigoted. If you're not okay with current situation, take it to the government, not the immigrants. Hurting innocent refugees does not hurt your government at all, nor does it do any good for your cause. It's just senseless violence and an excuse to be an asshole to random people.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;49790616]Very easily. When people can't voice their opinion and are forced into policies and taken money from they get angry.[/QUOTE] "But I need to set refugee shelters on fire and attack refugees/immigrants because I'm unhappy with Merkel's politics." -From "How to argue like an asshole"
doing this kind of thing only makes you and by association everyone against the refugees look dumb, it weakens your side and reinforces the opposition
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49790316][...] Tamschi, find someone else to be a cheerleader for. You are too good for this kid.[/QUOTE] :speechless: You aren't much better, you know? You just mostly post ignorant stuff around other topics (and Germany, really. I don't think you have nearly as good a grasp on the political landscape here as you believe). Same problem with heavy-handed rhetoric to some extent too, though to be fair to you, you [I]do[/I] hide it much better, pay much closer attention to what others say and don't react disproportionally quite as often. Then again you sprinkle around out-of-context statements pretty liberally, which is something I [I]really[/I] dislike. And for the record: I'm not "cheerleading" anyone, but I will support informative and/or constructive posts even if they come from the worst shitposter on this forum (and conversely). If you want to bring a discussion of messengers into this go ahead, but don't expect me to follow up positively any kind of identity politics in this or related matters, beyond discussing the general reliability of someone's information and any personal bias I see. All that aside, I [I]am[/I] on a pretty similar page to Killuah regarding these incidents. That's why I'm offering advice on how to get the point across better instead of criticising the post I replied to on a factual level. That said: [QUOTE=Killuah;49790372]Why? They are not cheering it because they like the sight of flames so much.[/QUOTE] You can be a xenophobic asshole without worshipping the NS regime, so it would be far more accurate here to just go with that instead. (Even if I'm pretty sure some of the latter group were there too, all things considered.) You really need to stop with your ridiculous generalisations, because you're 1. antagonising a lot of people who you probably otherwise could inform enough to re-evaluate their stance (or at least their posting habits) and 2. muddling up political dialogue with conflations to the point it's hard to get anything done at all. I strongly suggest you switch sides because you're doing far more damage to your cause than you help it right now. Arguing the same way the other way around might just get you further with your initial intentions.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;49790616]Very easily. When people can't voice their opinion and are forced into policies and taken money from they get angry.[/QUOTE] But they are free to voice their opinions? It's not like in certain other countries where you get governmental ramifications for saying something critical to the government.
[QUOTE=proch;49789815]Far left breeds far right, super PC breeds racism, and vice versa[/QUOTE] The far left and "super PC" are condemnable as well, but it's silly to think that the existence of the far right depends on the existence of the far left, or vice versa. I'm not gonna start hurling Molotov cocktails at cops because skinheads are a thing. And I very much doubt that the people who end up supporting the far right used to be particularly moderate in the first place.
The regions where this shit is happening dispropotionally often have been known for lots of right wing violence and problems for decades. It happened in the 90s, just with different immigrants, same slogans, same dumb idiots. This is not the "normal working class people". I don't even know why we are arguing this. The most "left extremist" people you will find in Bautzen are these guys: [img]http://bautzenstelltsichquer.blogsport.eu/files/2016/01/15-01-2016.jpg[/img] How in the fuck does this breed counterreactions like burning stuff? Do these guys(arguably from a demonstration in Magdeburg) look like your average working class everyday normal guy? [url=https://flic.kr/p/CftUn2][img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1656/23792718763_7e0ee20cdd_z.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/CftUn2]2016.01.16 Magdeburg Trauermarsch (89)[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/presseservice_rathenow/]Presseservice Rathenow[/url], auf Flickr These guys have been spotted in Bautzen on a Demonstration on 15./16. January 2016 They are known members of a Neonazi Party.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;49790686]doing this kind of thing only makes you and by association everyone against the refugees look dumb, it weakens your side and reinforces the opposition[/QUOTE] No, it makes these people look dumb. Don't resort to generalizations. Guilt by association is the same logic that is used to paint all refugees with one brush whenever they commit a crime and it's over sensationalized by tabloids.
[QUOTE] They are cheering the burning of a building because of their anti-refugee(not migrant, the fact that you still use that terms is another thing about how your language tells a lot) opinions.[/QUOTE] They are not refugees. They are not seeking refuge. They have arrived in Germany, meaning they have passed through several safe countries. They are not refugees. They will not leave unless forced to do so at gunpoint. They are migrants. They want a free ride in Europe. But your only argument at this point is calling anyone you disagree with an evil racist xenophobe uninformed nazi
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49791626]They are not refugees. They are not seeking refuge. They have arrived in Germany, meaning they have passed through several safe countries. They are not refugees. They will not leave unless forced to do so at gunpoint. They are migrants. They want a free ride in Europe. But your only argument at this point is calling anyone you disagree with an evil racist xenophobe uninformed nazi[/QUOTE] Shh, you're making too much sense. Just swallow the propaganda like a good boy. :downs:
I never called anyone on this forum that. Why are you exagerating again.
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