• Germany migrant shelter fire 'cheered by onlookers'
    143 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Killuah;49791646]I never called anyone on this forum that. Why are you exagerating again.[/QUOTE] Not you, but Uber had no problems blowing out of proportion [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1507284&p=49789918&viewfull=1#post49789918"]what I've said[/URL] earlier.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49791646]I never called anyone on this forum that. Why are you exagerating again.[/QUOTE] You call any right-wing anti migration group exactly that. You call PEGIDA and AfD violent hate groups. In the post I quoted you implied that he was an evil racist for saying migrant.
I'm not calling everyone who disagrees with me that. That's what you said. I call people who cheer the burning of refugee buildings that. PEGIDA and AfD are hate groups. I have been to PEGIDA(Legida) demonstrations a few weeks ago when visiting friends in Leipzig and the stuff you hear and see there is disgusting hate speech. People who call other people "insects" and "pests" are hate groups. In my post I was implying that he's using language to mark people who are seeking refuge as migrants because that evokes different emotions in people. It's a demagogic tactic. You use it too by arguing that as soon as people pass a safe country they lose their refugee status which in turn would mean that any country not bordering crisis regions can not take refugees from that region or that refugees would have to fly which is preposterous.
reminder that PEGIDA has this little gem at one of their rallies [quote]“there are of course other alternatives” to get rid of its critics. “But unfortunately the KZs (concentration camps) are closed right now.”[/quote] not a hate group though
Reminder that the AfD sold gold for 1:1 buying prices to exploit the governmental voting adds help Or using the word Volkskörper("Body of the nation") a word last used by Nazis when introducing biological cleansing laws.
[QUOTE=Streecer;49791724]reminder that PEGIDA has this little gem at one of their rallies not a hate group though[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.timesofisrael.com/germanys-pegida-condemned-over-concentration-camp-speech/"]That's a quote from a Turkish author who was only loosely tied to PEGIDA. PEGIDA leadership has denounced him and apologized for his remarks[/URL]. Nice try though. [QUOTE][QUOTE=Killuah;49791760]Reminder that the AfD sold gold for 1:1 buying prices to exploit the governmental voting adds help Or using the word Volkskörper("Body of the nation") a word last used by Nazis when introducing ethical cleansing laws.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] Selling gold = Nazism Using words I don't like = Nazism [QUOTE]The national body is both a concept of German population science , which originated in the second half of the 19th century and up to the time of National Socialism increasingly racially defined. After 1945, the term was largely synonymous with "population" or " population -hand".[/QUOTE] Did you know that Fanta originated in Nazi Germany and is thus the one and only soft drink of Nazis everywhere?
As for the AfD: [quote]Frauke Petry, one of the leaders of right-wing German opposition party Alternative for Germany (AfD), has sparked outrage with provocative comments about refugees. “Border guards must prevent illegal border crossings and even use firearms is necessary,” Petry told German newspaper ‘Mannheimer Morgen’, in an interview published on Saturday.[/quote] [url]http://www.euronews.com/2016/01/30/germany-afd-leader-calls-for-right-of-border-police-to-shoot-at-illegal-migrants/[/url] Use of fatal force in order to prevent illegal border crossings. Not self-defense, not attempting to stop a murderer from evading arrest, nope. [QUOTE]No police officer wanted to shoot at a migrant, Petry said, adding “I don’t want that either but, ultimately, deterrence includes the use of armed force.”[/QUOTE] A deterrent. There's no persecution complex "stop calling anyone who wants to have a discussion a nazi" soundbite that can address people advocating or being apologetics for domestic terrorism or murder.
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49791773][URL="http://www.timesofisrael.com/germanys-pegida-condemned-over-concentration-camp-speech/"]That's a quote from a Turkish author who was only loosely tied to PEGIDA. PEGIDA leadership has denounced him and apologized for his remarks[/URL]. Nice try though.[/QUOTE] [quote]PEGIDA co-founder Lutz Bachmann apologized on Facebook for failing to stop the controversial writer’s speech.[/quote] Yeah. This guy apologized for not stopping the hate speech after INVITING the author to several PEGIDA rallys: [t]https://mopo24.de/files/presse/images/redaktion/archiv/jahr-2015/monat-01/tag-20/01/bildschirmfoto20141110um17.45.17.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Killuah;49791708]You use it too by arguing that as soon as people pass a safe country they lose their refugee status which in turn would mean that any country not bordering crisis regions can not take refugees from that region or that refugees would have to fly which is preposterous.[/QUOTE] Which is a made-up redefinition of what a 'refugee' is, or at the very least goes against the UN definition of 'refugee', btw.
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49791626]They are not refugees. They are not seeking refuge. They have arrived in Germany, meaning they have passed through several safe countries. They are not refugees. They will not leave unless forced to do so at gunpoint. They are migrants. They want a free ride in Europe. But your only argument at this point is calling anyone you disagree with an evil racist xenophobe uninformed nazi[/QUOTE] What about refugees who can afford to travel to Germany but decided not to stop in overflowing countries like Turkey/Jordan/Lebanon? What the fuck would you call the Jewish refugees in WW2 who decided to travel to the States? Free loaders too? It's dumb as fuck to call all of them migrants. Some of them can afford to travel to Germany, I bet if your country went to shit you'll leg it to Canada way faster than you would Mexico.
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49791773][URL="http://www.timesofisrael.com/germanys-pegida-condemned-over-concentration-camp-speech/"]That's a quote from a Turkish author who was only loosely tied to PEGIDA. PEGIDA leadership has denounced him and apologized for his remarks[/URL]. Nice try though.[/QUOTE] they invited this guy to their rally to speak for them, therefore he was officially affiliated with them during this time they knew full well who he was, ignorance was not an acceptable excuse, they invite these kinds of people to represent them
[QUOTE=phaedon;49791783]As for the AfD: [url]http://www.euronews.com/2016/01/30/germany-afd-leader-calls-for-right-of-border-police-to-shoot-at-illegal-migrants/[/url] Use of fatal force in order to prevent illegal border crossings. Not self-defense, not attempting to stop a murderer from evading arrest, nope. A deterrent. There's no persecution complex "stop calling anyone who wants to have a discussion a nazi" soundbite that can address people advocating or being apologetics for domestic terrorism or murder.[/QUOTE] I fully support the idea of using lethal force against migrants under dangerous circumstances. Why shouldn't police be able to do so if they are under threat [QUOTE]Yeah. This guy apologized for not stopping the hate speech after INVITING the author to several PEGIDA rallys: [/QUOTE] When I was very young I dressed as a firefighter for Halloween, so I am now a firefighter [QUOTE] Which is a made-up redefinition of what a 'refugee' is, or at the very least goes against the UN definition of 'refugee', btw. [/QUOTE] Once you have left Syria and arrived in a safe country, you are no longer in immediate danger, and thus you are not a refugee. [QUOTE]What about refugees who can afford to travel to Germany but decided not to stop in overflowing countries like Turkey/Jordan/Lebanon? What the fuck would you call the Jewish refugees in WW2 who decided to travel to the States? Free loaders too? It's dumb as fuck to call all of them migrants. Some of them can afford to travel to Germany, I bet if your country went to shit you'll leg it to Canada way faster than you would Mexico. [/QUOTE] First of all, woe is them. I would take a crowded refugee camp over a warzone. Second of all, Jews fleeing to either the US or Israel were immigrants. They were offered a very easy route to either country, so many took that opportunity. Many Jews also stayed in Europe rather than emigrating. Third, if my country erupted into war I would flee to whatever the nearest safe zone is. In my case, that would be Canada.
Remember that anyone critisizing refugees/migrants are descendants of Hitler themselves. Also remember that anyone criticizing attacks on refugees/migrants are extreme PC people who believe racism against whites cannot exist.
"When intelligent and stupid children learn together the populace gets more stupid" Jens Pfeiffer (AfD) "The double citizenship erodes the foundation of the German society" Bernd Kölmel, AfD President of Baden-Württemberg, Source is deleted. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=da space core;49791889]Remember that anyone critisizing refugees/migrants are descendants of Hitler themselves. Also remember that anyone criticizing attacks on refugees/migrants are extreme PC people who believe racism against whites cannot exist.[/QUOTE] Why are you drawing the Hitler exageration again? Literally noone thinks like that? I know it's easier to argue against an extreme position but please don't make it up just so you can argue it.
[QUOTE] "When intelligent and stupid children learn together the populace gets more stupid"[/QUOTE] This is true, though. I've seen numerous examples of smart people falling from grace due to associating with morons. [QUOTE] "The double citizenship erodes the foundation of the German society" Bernd Kölmel, AfD President of Baden-Württemberg, Source is deleted. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]I lust after dragon cocks[/QUOTE] Killuah, Emperor of Swaziland, Source is deleted. (Not that that quote is in any way racist)
[QUOTE]I fully support the idea of using lethal force against migrants [B]under dangerous circumstances[/B]. Why shouldn't police be able to do so if they are under threat[/QUOTE] very noticeable moving of the goalposts to change the context of the article, in which he states that he wants refugees to be shot for no particular reason, did you even read the article [QUOTE]When I was very young I dressed as a firefighter for Halloween, so I am now a firefighter[/QUOTE] wtf is this They invited a NOTED RACIST to publicly represent them at one of their rallies, ergo they are a racist party [QUOTE]Once you have left Syria and arrived in a safe country, you are no longer in immediate danger, and thus you are not a refugee.[/QUOTE] that isn't how being a refugee works, you don't just suddenly stop being one as soon as you step foot over the border [QUOTE]First of all, woe is them. I would take a crowded refugee camp over a warzone.[/QUOTE] both of which often mix together [QUOTE]This is true, though. I've seen numerous examples of smart people falling from grace due to associating with morons.[/QUOTE] implying that you both support segregation based on race, and the idea that some "races" are stupider than others, lovely
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49791923]This is true, though. I've seen numerous examples of smart people falling from grace due to associating with morons. Killuah, Emperor of Swaziland, Source is deleted. (Not that that quote is in any way racist)[/QUOTE] The founder of the AfD himself left the party because he thinks that the Anti-Muslim and Xenophobic forces inside of the party got too extreme dude. How are you still arguing that the AfD is not a xenophiobic and hateful group?
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49791877]I fully support the idea of using lethal force against migrants under dangerous circumstances. Why shouldn't police be able to do so if they are under threat[/QUOTE] You are deflecting. This is specifically mentioned as a deterrent for illegal [b]border crossings[/b], which do not present a threat to the life of police officers. Police officers are already allowed by law to use lethal force for self-defense, it's not like they have to draw up a new law for refugees.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49791934]The founder of the AfD himself left the party because he thinks that the Anti-Muslim and Xenophobic forces inside of the party got too extreme dude. How are you still arguing that the AfD is not a xenophiobic and hateful group?[/QUOTE] Because I haven't seen AfD demonstrate any xenophobia or hatred. It's exactly like Donald Trump. "Oh, this guy said some things which could be seen as mildly distasteful under some circumstances! He's the next Hitler!" [QUOTE] implying that you both support segregation based on race, and the idea that some "races" are stupider than others, lovely [/QUOTE] ........what? What I said implied that in no way, at all? I understand you're having difficulty arguing that AfD and PEGIDA are violent hate groups but are you really just going to outright lie? [QUOTE]both of which often mix together[/QUOTE] No not really. Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey are all pretty safe, at least comparatively. [QUOTE]wtf is this They invited a NOTED RACIST to publicly represent them at one of their rallies, ergo they are a racist party [/QUOTE] I think you misread my post. He posted a picture of an AfD official that somewhat resembled Adolf Hitler, to which I replied that I must be a firefighter because at one time I looked like a firefighter. [QUOTE]very noticeable moving of the goalposts to change the context of the article, in which he states that he wants refugees to be shot for no particular reason, did you even read the article[/QUOTE] We already had a thread about this. That is literally what she said. That police should use firearms when threatened by swarms of dangerous migrants. It seems like "GOALPOASTS!!1!" is the go-to excuse when you're caught trying to propagate misinformation.
[QUOTE]........what? What I said implied that in no way, at all? I understand you're having difficulty arguing that AfD and PEGIDA are violent hate groups but are you really just going to outright lie?[/QUOTE] Did you even read the original quote, did you consider for a moment what the context behind it might be before posting your agreement? [QUOTE] "When intelligent and stupid children learn together the populace gets more stupid"[/QUOTE] I don't see how you can misinterpret this.
[QUOTE=Streecer;49792024]Did you even read the original quote, did you consider for a moment what the context behind it might be before posting your agreement? I don't see how you can misinterpret this.[/QUOTE] Maybe you have some insider knowledge that I don't, but he never mentioned race. He mentioned intelligent and stupid children. One-size-fits-all schooling does have a negative affect on the intelligent children. That quote, alone, with no context is completely true.
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49791990] That is literally what she said. [/QUOTE] Exactly, that's a direct quote. [quote]That police should use firearms when threatened by swarms of dangerous migrants. [/QUOTE] Even in the case that she was misquoted (of which there is no indication whatsoever, she specifically talked about deterrence, not self-defense), this is supporting the use of firearms as a means of crowd control. Again, unless German police offers are deprived of the right to self-defense when their lives are threatened, under normal operations, then justifying this as self-defense is utter rubbish. They have as much right to defend themselves against someone trying to stab them regardless of their country of origin.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49790033]What is this generalization? Do I have to burn down empty banks now because Banksters destroyed billions in worth of money ? Do the Greeks now have to burn down their banks because child mortality has been sharply rising because of the banking crysis? Do you listen to yourself? [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] Better burn down some shit instead, huh? What the fuck is wrong with you people? [/QUOTE] i'm not saying burning it down is right, but if the majority of the locals oppose the whole thing and the government doesn't care then shits going to happen. China ignored the peaceful protests in HK last year, this year the protesters didn't bother, and started throwing bricks, ignoring the peaceful protests only leads to this exact sort of thing
[QUOTE=phaedon;49792070]Exactly, that's a direct quote. Even in the case that she was misquoted (of which there is no indication whatsoever, she specifically talked about deterrence, not self-defense), this is supporting the use of firearms as a means of crowd control. Again, unless German police offers are deprived of the right to self-defense when their lives are threatened, under normal operations, then justifying this as self-defense is utter rubbish. They have as much right to defend themselves against someone trying to stab them regardless of their country of origin.[/QUOTE] In the case of an unruly and dangerous crowd composed of individuals who are not German citizens, and thus not entitled to protection by the German state, use of firearms is perfectly understandable. Likewise, use of warning shots for crowd control is perfectly fine too.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49789964]You make it sound like I'm cheering them, and I am not. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] And the quip is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. Sense of humor, do you have any?[/QUOTE] It's german humor. It's no laughing matter.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49791893] Why are you drawing the Hitler exageration again? Literally noone thinks like that? I know it's easier to argue against an extreme position but please don't make it up just so you can argue it.[/QUOTE] The complete irony was that I was making fun of the fact that many folks from both sides are coloring the other sides as extremists. It prevents any discussion what so ever.
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49792111]In the case of an unruly and dangerous crowd composed of individuals [...] use of firearms is perfectly understandable.[/quote] No, it's not. The idea of police or army shooting at crowds in order to disperse them is an idea that belongs to the 19th or early 20th century, unless you are living under an authoritarian regime. Because it [i]is[/i] an authoritarian measure. It places public order over the lives of idividuals and uses deadly force as more than a last resort. There's plenty of public unrest in Europe. Annually. Imagine what would happen if all 'dangerous' crowds faced capital punishment on the spot. You'd have massacres that would rival that of the Euromaidan regularly. It would needlessly escalate already violent situations and cause governments to resign all the time. It's not simply an idiotic measure, it is deeply immoral and disregards the value of human life. Modern riot control seeks to minimize civillian injuries. Nobody wants a Tiananmen Square on their hands. Why? Well morality and political instability aside, [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Riot_or_political_demonstration]riots can and do turn into horrible massacres already.[/url] [quote]who are not German citizens, and thus not entitled to protection by the German state, [/quote] Nonsense. Non-Germans are absolutely entitled to their rights when they are in Germany, and the German state has a responsibility towards them. The idea that I can be freely attacked or even murdered in Germany, simply because I am not a native is absolutely preposterous. [quote]Likewise, use of warning shots for crowd control is perfectly fine too.[/QUOTE] Right, fire live ammunition near a big crowd. Possibly in a heavily populated area. Can't see how that could go wrong.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49792274]It's german humor. It's no laughing matter.[/QUOTE] Way to live up to the stererotype, I guess. [editline]22nd February 2016[/editline] How do you say "NO FUN ALLOWED" in German? :v:
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49792111]In the case of an unruly and dangerous crowd composed of individuals who are not German citizens, and thus not entitled to protection by the German state, use of firearms is perfectly understandable. Likewise, use of warning shots for crowd control is perfectly fine too.[/QUOTE] let's assume that non-citizens aren't entitled to protection, which i can't find any proof for and is extremely shaky (considering EU human rights tend to apply regardless of citizenship) but let's roll with it for the sake of argument. how exactly does that relinquish your right to [I]not get shot and killed[/I]? the first one is "just" very dangerous inaction, but the other is both an extremely callous disregard for international law (and human life in general) and also requires the police to actively do something against you. they're like totally different ballparks. like i told you last time, if the German police need guns at the border then they'll fucking bring guns, it doesn't matter who they are or aren't shooting. why should an exception be made just because a fence is involved? if they wouldn't shoot Germans then what makes you think they'd be comfortable shooting anyone else?
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49792111]In the case of an unruly and dangerous crowd composed of individuals who are not German citizens, and thus not entitled to protection by the German state, use of firearms is perfectly understandable. Likewise, use of warning shots for crowd control is perfectly fine too.[/QUOTE] You're an idiot. Firing lethal rounds into a crowd of people isn't more morally or legally justifiable because they have a different skin color and language. How are you going to determine this? Are you going to ask each rioter for their paperwork before you gun them down? Fucking lunatic. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("flaming" - Orkel))[/highlight]
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