• Graves of British troops (in Libya) smashed and desecrated by Libyan Islamists
    94 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34878467][B]That percentage is less than 1 percent. If you find it "difficult" not to lean towards hating more than 99% of a collective group due to the actions of less than 1% of that group, then you have some other pressing issues. [/B] Same is especially applicable with Orkel, considering this isn't the first time he displayed that rhetoric.[/QUOTE] I think it's because people are frustrated that this stuff seems to occur fairly regularly, and is only met with (what appears to be) Western criticism rather then criticism from other Muslims.
[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;34878646]I think it's because people are frustrated that this stuff seems to occur fairly regularly,[/quote] Less than regularly when in comparison with other groups/religions [url]http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/[/url]. Statistical data (including the FBI) cited. [quote]and is only met with (what appears to be) Western criticism rather then criticism from other Muslims.[/QUOTE] Muslims have been condemning terrorism for years. Some people just don't want to hear it. [URL]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8544531.stm[/URL] [URL]http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/03/fatwa.against.terror/index.html[/URL] [URL="http://www.cair-net.org/crisiscenter/html/cair_ad.html"]A Message from the Council on American-Islamic Relations[/URL] [URL="http://islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=AM0109-335"]American Muslim Leaders Condemn Attacks[/URL] [URL="http://www.beliefnet.com/gallery/terrorist.html"]American Muslims Denouncing Terrorism[/URL] [URL="http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp"]American Muslims and Scholars Denounce Terrorism on Anniversary of 9/11[/URL] [URL="http://www.muslimaffairs.com.au/News/PR-terror.htm"]Australian Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attack[/URL] [URL="http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-distortion.html"]Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say[/URL] [URL="http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/national/39887_islam22.shtml"]Bin Laden's Idea of 'Jihad' is Out of Bounds, Islamic Scholars Say[/URL] [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/5111092.stm"]British Muslim leaders condemn terrorism[/URL] [URL="http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=1062"]British Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks[/URL] [URL="http://muslim-canada.org/news09112001.html"]Canadian Muslims Condemn Terorist Attacks[/URL] [URL="http://www.unc.edu/%7Ekurzman/terror.htm"]Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders[/URL] [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1544000/1544955.stm"]Islamic World Deplores U.S. Losses[/URL] [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A43785-2001Sep29?language=printer"]Looking for Answers in Islam's Holy Book: What Islamic Scholars Have to Say[/URL] [URL="http://www.crescentlife.com/heal%20the%20world/muslim_reactions_to_sept_11.htm"]Muslim Reactions to Sept 11[/URL] [URL="http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_terrorism_part_ii_statements_by_organizatio/0012210"]Muslim Voices Against Extremism & Terrorism - Part II - Statements by Organizations[/URL] [URL="http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article18.shtml"]Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S.[/URL] [URL="http://muslimunity.net/condemn.htm"]Muslim rulers condemn WTC attacks[/URL] [URL="http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/FIANZWEB16/PressRelease1.html"]New Zealand Muslims Condemn Terrorism[/URL] [URL="http://www.oic-oci.org/english/fm/11_extraordinary/declaration.htm"]Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers Condemn International Terrorism[/URL] [URL="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/09/0925_TVkoran.html"]Quran a Book of Peace Not War, Islamic Scholars Say[/URL] [URL="http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm"]Scholars of Islam Condemn Terrorism[/URL] [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=articles&node=&contentID=A50342-2001Nov18"]Some American Muslims Take a Look at Their Communities' Shortcomings[/URL] [URL="http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article1.shtml"]U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks[/URL] [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1554000/1554177.stm"]UK Muslim Leaders Condemn 'Lunatic Fringe'[/URL] [URL="http://www.examiner.com/x-32388-St-Louis-Islam-Examiner%7Ey2010m5d6-Islam-Condemns-Times-Square-Terrorism"]Islam Condemns Times Square Terrorism[/URL]
People are hilariously dumb, what else is new
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34878769]Muslims have been condemning terrorism for years. Some people just don't want to hear it.[/QUOTE] It's such a shame then that their book promotes violence against people.
[QUOTE=Patriarch;34878879]It's such a shame then that their book promotes violence against people.[/QUOTE] That depends on how you interpret it. [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8544531.stm"]What actually matters though, is what the leading authorities on Islam rule, in regards to violence or "promotion terrorism"[/URL]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34878925]Depending on how you interpret it. [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8544531.stm"]What actually matters though, is what the leading authorities on Islam rule, in regards to violence or "promotion terrorism"[/URL][/QUOTE] [quote=008.012 ]I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them[/quote] Yeah, it's really down to how you interpret it.
[QUOTE=Patriarch;34878955]Yeah, it's really down to how you interpret it.[/QUOTE] That's in reference to a specific battle (Battle of Badr), not an order on Muslims. [url]http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/surah8_12.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34879108]That's in reference to a specific battle (Battle of Badr), not an order on Muslims. [url]http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/surah8_12.htm[/url][/QUOTE] Okay, then how about: [quote=002.191]And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.[/quote] [quote=002.216]Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. [/quote] [quote=005.033]The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;[/quote] [quote=004.076]Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah[/quote]
[QUOTE=cheesedelux;34872992]While this is a nasty story, I had to see what the commenters had to say: "I'm sure there is text in the Koran about respecting other religions. I do not want to be Muslim, however I respect their right to exist" Wow, what a nice change. A reasonable comment on the Daily Mail website. 730 downvotes. Fuck you, Daily Mail readers. "Worst Rated" - The only place to find decent people on that damned site.[/QUOTE] Here are the 10 lowest rated comments: [QUOTE]I do not agree with what they have done but i can see why they would be angry,in the past few months there have been photos of US troops urinating on dead bodies and burning their religious books. They attacked our graves because we are guilty by association the same way that we will happily attack people saying they are helping the taliban etc. I wonder what the reaction of hardline Christians in the US would be if the found Muslims had been burning the Bible? The American military said that the books were burn out of ignorance. I would say they were burnt out of arrogance, the people who burnt said books would never have burnt the Bible, a book that America holds dear. Britain would be better to not follow the US foreign policy goals blindly. If you sleep with the devil......... I 'm sure there is text in the Koran about respecting other religions. I do not want to be muslim however I respect their right to exist. as ghandi said an eye for an eye , and you know how that saying ends.... you cant blame one side, each to its own, each at its fault. Thank you america,...your winning hearts and minds in England as well as Afghanistan. US soldiers?... no, they are Coalition soldiers... since UK joined the so called coalition it became as guilty as the US... Then dont burn the quran...everything has consequences... why would the stupid yanks do this, dont they have any idea the ramifications or didnt they care that US and British soliders would die when the people found out Last year, the military might of the United Kingdom, France and other allies rid Libya of a tyrant. Muslims and Christians alike celebrated in the streets. Now they consecrate war graves from an era long since past, but never forgotten. The Muslim religion is portrayed as hatred against all none believers. Grow up see sense. A bunch of twisted bigots spoil it for the true believers.[/QUOTE] Here are the 10 highest rated comments: [QUOTE]Would someone care to remind us what the Saudis do to bibles confiscated on entry to their country? I could go on with many more examples of the uncivilised - and often fatal - nature of of the actions of islamic countries towards members of other religions. Becouse of the excuse of their religion those pople they think that they can control the whole world over a book !! unseless fanatics ! All this over a work of fiction. On behalf of all those dead soldiers,may I thank You Mr Cameron for helping to create this, at least the last regime in Llibya had the decency to respect our fallen of WW2! So the ill advised burning of their religious text justifies wanton murder and desecration of war graves. Yet the burning of our nations flags and intolerance of any belief other than their own is acceptable? The bigotry and hypocrisy of these people is truly unbelievable. A perfect example how an uneducated populous kept in check and led by religious zealots behave and what a threat to the rest of the world any state that has this formula for society really is. Now what is the Interim Government of Libya, who where readily assisted when asked by the very same armed services whose fallen comrades lie here, going to do about it. At least apologies, repair and re dedication Perhaps also a bit of education as to the reasons why the graves of British heroes are here. We might as well just not helped them get rid of Gaddafi. He could have been there to look after them considering they can't tell the difference between British and US. I also wonder if they thought about the Koran being destroyed when they were destroying buildings in their war against Gaddafi? What else would you expect from a bunch of ignoramus that are trapped in the 7Th century...? A few months ago we helped these people get rid of the dictator who ruled without mercy for years, and now we see this. Its time to walk away from these people let them get on with it. You cannot help people like these, their heads and minds are in the dark ages, medieval thinking were life is cheap and killing non believers is seen as a passage to heaven. Why do we waste our time on these animals, let them rot.[/QUOTE] It seems to be a rating system of: Racism, Over the top nationalism, blaming someone else? UP! Sensible points that are not racist, nationalist or fail to blame another party? Vote them down!
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34879108]That's in reference to a specific battle (Battle of Badr), not an order on Muslims.[/QUOTE] While I want to agree with you Starpluck, the ever so growing occurring terrorist attacks are always(usually) followed by a Muslim man/militia group. If it weren't for the faith of Islam, and them following the book of some guy to an extremist way, they wouldn't be doing much? Much like those %'s of Muslims who live a peaceful life. A lot wouldn't happen if there wasn't religions containing people's minds.
That's the problem with religious texts, you have to interpret them. Everyone does it differently and suddenly you get people who blow themselves up for greater good.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;34879493]That's the problem with religious texts, you have to interpret them. Everyone does it differently and suddenly you get people who blow themselves up for greater good.[/QUOTE] That doesn't apply strictly to religious texts. Anything that you can convince people is really important can do that.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34873569]there's two problems. first of all a bunch of soldiers, who are known for attacking countries with muslims in them, took a book that for many of these people is the only bit of hope they have, threw it in the trash and burned it in a horrible symbolic fuck-you. [/QUOTE] Well, according to the news articles, it wasn't a symbolic fuck you (Seriously, what's symbolic about burning it quietly in the trash? If it was "symbolic", it would have been filmed and posted all over the internet), it was because Prisoners had been writing messages in the burned copies with extremist sentiment, using it to communicate with one another. Now, you may say that the latter is just a pack of lies, but the fact that the former point did not take place actually supports the latter. TL;DR - Read the article
[QUOTE=Patriarch;34879230]Okay, then how about:[/QUOTE] Can you not Google the verses yourself and look at the context? I'm pretty sure in the 600 page ruling cited above, described as "point-by-point theological rebuttal of every argument used by al-Qaeda inspired recruiters." went over these verses. These verses are referring to a specific time or event and are mostly out of context - for example, the first one wasn't even the full verse, but rather a truncated one as if it was intended to deliberately take it out of context: [quote] [url]http://islam.about.com/od/terrorism/f/terrorism_verse.htm[/url] "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193). It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.[/quote] [QUOTE=SatansSin;34879350]While I want to agree with you Starpluck, the ever so growing occurring terrorist attacks are always(usually) followed by a Muslim man/militia group.[/quote] [url]http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/[/url] [quote]If it weren't for the faith of Islam, and them following the book of some guy to an extremist way, they wouldn't be doing much?[/quote] No, they would just have a different justification.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;34879258]It seems to be a rating system of: Racism, Over the top nationalism, blaming someone else? UP! Sensible points that are not racist, nationalist or fail to blame another party? Vote them down![/QUOTE] So suddenly Islam is a race?
[quote]A furious mob has desecrated dozens of Commonwealth War Graves in a Libyan cemetery amid continuing fury in the Middle East over the burning of the Koran by U.S. soldiers. Headstones commemorating British and Allied servicemen, killed during World War II campaigns in the Western Desert, lay smashed and strewn across Benghazi Military Cemetery. Protesters rampaged through site on Friday, despite efforts by America to calm tensions sparked when it emerged U.S. soldiers had burned Muslim holy books in a pile of rubbish at a military base in Afghanistan.[/quote] So this is their reason for rioting, murdering, and desecrating the graves of WWII soldiers? Over two books that were used as a communication method for malicious reasons? Disgusting. Rioting won't bring the books back. It won't win favor for your god. It won't do shit except worsen our already sour opinion of you. What is even more sickening is we helped topple dictators for you, gave you your freedom, and THIS is how you repay us? Murdering civilians and destroying everything? If someone else rises to power and starts taking away your rights, don't you DARE come crying to us. We don't have time or money to waste on a riotous bunch of rebels like you. Might as well rename your country to "Land of Tinder" as even the smallest spark can cause a blazing inferno. /rage
its the war over desecrating inanimate objects
o well libya fuck u we have your oil in contracts with bp now L O L!!!!!
Thread music: It's absolutely true cause I read it in the Daily Mail. [video=youtube;5eBT6OSr1TI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI[/video]
[QUOTE=Killer900;34873441]All over a fucking book.[/QUOTE] Burn some Twilight novels.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34878467]That percentage is less than 1 percent. If you find it "difficult" not to lean towards hating more than 99% of a collective group due to the actions of less than 1% of that group, then you have some other pressing issues. Same is especially applicable with Orkel, considering this isn't the first time he displayed that rhetoric.[/QUOTE] This is brought up alot but considering how widespread and common these types of incidents seem to be I am starting to doubt it. However It really has more to do with culture than anything.
I didn't know that afghans were that bothered about recycling and the environment, I mean sheesh 5 days of protests because some books were burnt..
[QUOTE=Bobie;34880102]o well libya fuck u we have your oil in contracts with bp now L O L!!!!![/QUOTE] Yeah, we totally put thousands of troops on the ground to kill those senseless non-christian Libyans and steal there oil, and not help an oppressed people and a failing resistance.
[QUOTE=hoodoo456;34881252]Yeah, we totally put thousands of troops on the ground to kill those senseless non-christian Libyans and steal there oil, and not help an oppressed people and a failing resistance.[/QUOTE] But there were no troops on the ground. Just fighter-bombers and some naval vessels.
[QUOTE=imperialrock;34876258]Fucking disgusting, it doesn't even make sense to desecrate British graves over an American action (one that was completely justified.) Mindless savages, words can't describe how much I hate Muslim extremists.[/QUOTE] I think it has to do with lumping western countries together. It's fairly common for us in the West to look at the middle east as a whole, but not seperate it into seperate countries. E.g. if a Saudi Arabian flies a plane into a building, we go invade Iraq. [editline]26th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lethaxx;34878090]so books are more valued than the graves of the dead, what a world we live in[/QUOTE] Why are we dedicating so much land to putting dead bodes into and jamming big ass rocks the ground anyway? It's such a christian thing to do. They're just dead bodies, there isn't (or there shouldn't be) some bigger supernatural meaning than that. [editline]26th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Patriarch;34878879]It's such a shame then that their book promotes violence against people.[/QUOTE] Just like the Bible.
[QUOTE=That Poster;34879880]So suddenly Islam is a race?[/QUOTE] lmao if you don't think people who hate "Islamic people" aren't grounded in anti-arab racism
It's only gravestones. From an image point of view it's disgusting, but from a literal point of view it's nothing but broken stone.
[QUOTE=Lazor;34881774]lmao if you don't think people who hate "Islamic people" aren't grounded in anti-arab racism[/QUOTE] Some are. A lot of them are, in fact. But some people do have genuine complaints about the religion, so I don't feel it's entirely correct to group them together as such.
[QUOTE=Lazor;34881774]lmao if you don't think people who hate "Islamic people" aren't grounded in anti-arab racism[/QUOTE]You are quite wrong and are generalizing. I hate christianity, I do not hate whites or whatever race christians mostly are. Why are you suggesting racism when there isn't any in the base argument?
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;34882305]You are quite wrong and are generalizing. I hate christianity, I do not hate whites or whatever race christians mostly are. Why are you suggesting racism when there isn't any in the base argument?[/QUOTE] because dailymail stories like this oftentimes go to lengths to conflate race with religion. criticism of islam is not necessarily racist, but the mainstream current of criticism of islam in europe is usually racist because it virtually always conflates the behavior of terrorists with muslim immigrants, and the behavior of radical muslims in arab countries with middle-eastern terrorists even though those groups have nothing to do with each other. what it is is ignorance and bigotry, what it isn't is: "well-reasoned criticism of a holy book which acknowledges that actual criticism of the book when talking about the religion as it exists is more or less useless because modern islam is defined, not by the Koran, by how it is practiced (which is, for the vast majority of muslims, peacefully)."
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