• China reportedly issues new warning over North Korean nuclear production
    71 replies, posted
[QUOTE=download;47581953]Hundreds of thousands of cargo ships come into the US each year. They don't search every one, they don't check if every one has the correct paper work and even then the Norks would just register their bomb ship under the Panama flag like everyone else and the Coast Guard won't bat an eyelid. Does not mean shit. [editline]24th April 2015[/editline] No it's not. The only reasons China [I]tolerates[/I] them as they provide a fleshy meaty buffer between them and the US backed South Korea. If North Korea collapses I guarantee you the Chinese would annex the country faster than you can snap your fingers hoping to beat the South and the US to it.[/QUOTE] honestly i don't think china would even annex it, if it were nuked to smithereens, they'd probably be more content with the whole country being an exclusion zone so it has all the benefits of being a barrier between the west with none of the clean-up costs [editline]23rd April 2015[/editline] but yeah, the norks are far more likely to use unconventional deployment strategies, and would most likely follow up nuking a port city with raining enough artillery down on seoul to turn it to dust since they know they won't survive nuking anyone
[QUOTE=download;47581778]Sure, depending on target selection, millions would die[/QUOTE] I bet they won't. You need to have a relatively big number of really sophisticated delivery systems to overcome contemporary antiair defence, not a couple dozen of joke rockets thay can build at best. Not to mention that, as far as i remember, they haven't even developed a compact nuke suitable for them yet.
[QUOTE=antianan;47583256]I bet they won't. You need to have a relatively big number of really sophisticated delivery systems to overcome contemporary antiair defence, not a couple dozens of joke rockets thay can build at best. Not to mention that, as far as i remember, they haven't even developed a compact nuke suitable for them yet.[/QUOTE] NK can barely launch a rocket. They won't be able to safely launch a nuke.
In the opening shots of the war, Seoul would be destroyed. NK has thousands of artillery pieces aimed at Seoul, this is well known. Combine the fact that although NK has a geriatric air force, outdated guns, tanks, etc, they still have sheer numbers. Add in the possibility of nukes, the allied death toll is going to be very high. People laugh at the notion of North Korea causing damage, but the threat is very big to SK, and Japan. NK continues to develop longer range ballistic missiles while trying to minaturized their nukes so they could be fit onto missiles. They somehow have even acquired some Kh-35U surface to surface anti ship missiles, which are very similar to our Harpoon missiles. These are a threat to surface ships, especially SK's Navy ships. North Korea is a bigger threat then most people would really like to realize.
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47584370]In the opening shots of the war, Seoul would be destroyed. NK has thousands of artillery pieces aimed at Seoul, this is well known. Combine the fact that although NK has a geriatric air force, outdated guns, tanks, etc, they still have sheer numbers. Add in the possibility of nukes, the allied death toll is going to be very high. People laugh at the notion of North Korea causing damage, but the threat is very big to SK, and Japan. NK continues to develop longer range ballistic missiles while trying to minaturized their nukes so they could be fit onto missiles. They somehow have even acquired some Kh-35U surface to surface anti ship missiles, which are very similar to our Harpoon missiles. These are a threat to surface ships, especially SK's Navy ships. North Korea is a bigger threat then most people would really like to realize.[/QUOTE] But they still fail at launching rockets. Something that many high schoolers in the west know how to do.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;47584395]But they still fail at launching rockets. Something that many high schoolers in the west know how to do.[/QUOTE] They fail at launching bigger rockets, and continue to improve upon those rockets. These are baby steps, the US used to fail at rockets, Russia used to fail at rockets, China used to fail at rockets. Lot of countries fail at things but continue to move forward to make them not fail. Also, many high schoolers build model rockets, something NK can do too. You compared high schoolers making estes models to a country making ICBM's. Not a comparison at all...
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47584456]They fail at launching bigger rockets, and continue to improve upon those rockets. These are baby steps, the US used to fail at rockets, Russia used to fail at rockets, China used to fail at rockets. Lot of countries fail at things but continue to move forward to make them not fail. Also, many high schoolers build model rockets, something NK can do too. You compared high schoolers making estes models to a country making ICBM's. Not a comparison at all...[/QUOTE] They are still very behind 80% of the rest of the world yet say they can destroy things that are 15,000 miles away. We can watch everything they do and can react to the majority of things. We have AA and anti-missile systems in SK that can shoot shit down that they launch. It isn't that as you make it out. If they start rolling tanks across the border, we'll be there with open arms to blow them back to where they came. We have shit fixed on them too from closeby that will level Pyongyang.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;47584492]They are still very behind 80% of the rest of the world yet say they can destroy things that are 15,000 miles away. We can watch everything they do and can react to the majority of things. We have AA and anti-missile systems in SK that can shoot shit down that they launch. It isn't that as you make it out. If they start rolling tanks across the border, we'll be there with open arms to blow them back to where they came. We have shit fixed on them too from closeby that will level Pyongyang.[/QUOTE] No one is doubting we wouldn't fuck them up, but they would still cause a lot of casualties. North Korea knows it wouldn't win, they know it's suicidal. South Korea knows it will sustain a lot of casualties, and will be in a crisis. The US knows a war would increase tensions with China, who is the sole reason North Korea has lasted this long. Here is a good article that puts some concerns out there. [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/why-no-one-in-korea-wants-war-2013-4[/url]
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47584589]No one is doubting we wouldn't fuck them up, but they would still cause a lot of casualties. North Korea knows it wouldn't win, they know it's suicidal. South Korea knows it will sustain a lot of casualties, and will be in a crisis. The US knows a war would increase tensions with China, who is the sole reason North Korea has lasted this long. Here is a good article that puts some concerns out there. [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/why-no-one-in-korea-wants-war-2013-4[/url][/QUOTE] So how will this regime end then? Seems like something has to give here.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;47581614]And so would a good chunk of the rest of the world. Nuclear war in any capacity now would be disasterous worldwide.[/QUOTE] This is North Korea we're talking about here. The country led by the fat guy that prefers feeding himself rather than his people. The guy who climbed the tallest mountain in NK with his Helo most likely. I'm sure if you tore away the red star on their missiles, they'd just be stickers hiding the big ACME logo.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;47584647]So how will this regime end then? Seems like something has to give here.[/QUOTE] Eventually, something will have to give. Few things that could happen is the Chinese say fuck it, and covertly support a Coup. The Military themselves gets sick of shit and pulls off a coup. The US backs a coup, etc. Kim loses Chinese backing, goes crazy and invades SK, Millions die, NK collapses, and China and SK have to deal with millions of brainwashed, and starved refugees.Sure I could make other things up as well.
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47586424]Eventually, something will have to give. Few things that could happen is the Chinese say fuck it, and covertly support a Coup. The Military themselves gets sick of shit and pulls off a coup. The US backs a coup, etc. Kim loses Chinese backing, goes crazy and invades SK, Millions die, NK collapses, and China and SK have to deal with millions of brainwashed, and starved refugees.Sure I could make other things up as well.[/QUOTE] Or the US could just do some crazy bombing and bye bye Norks? I'd like to think we could fuck them up with some diplomacy with China and then secretly bomb the fuck out of most of the country and China says "Oh well no loss here." Curious why this hasn't been done.
It's probably pessimistic of me, but sometimes I both laugh and worry about North Korea. Laugh at their attempts failing, but worry that one day one of their attempts will be successful. I hope something is done before any form of damage comes..
[QUOTE=Rocko's;47586461]It's probably pessimistic of me, but sometimes I both laugh and worry about North Korea. Laugh at their attempts failing, but worry that one day one of their attempts will be successful. I hope something is done before any form of damage comes..[/QUOTE] They won't succeed. They know they can't. That's why they don't try aside from launching some artillery shells. The world has surpassed everything they have by 50 years or more.
Can you imagine if NK finally nutted up and launched a nuke that then failed to even make it out of the silo Back to the drawing board if you can find one in the crater, I guess.
[QUOTE=New Cidem;47586566]Can you imagine if NK finally nutted up and launched a nuke that then failed to even make it out of the silo Back to the drawing board if you can find one in the crater, I guess.[/QUOTE] That's basically what will happen. We'll all laugh as Pyongyang falls.
If you guys think North Korea is trying to get nukes to go out in a blaze of glory you're insane, they're a weapon of deterrence. The goal of them having nuclear weapons and any capability of launching them even 5 feet is to make everyone else fear the consequences of trying to attack them. Its also worth pointing out you don't need to put nukes on a rocket, they can still be carried by planes and launched via artillery. Likewise North Korea won't attack because they know the consequences of what will happen. You have to remember that its not a bunch of brainwashed civilians making decisions, its intelligent leaders who want to maintain their status, they gain nothing by attacking anyone else.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;47586827]If you guys think North Korea is trying to get nukes to go out in a blaze of glory you're insane, they're a weapon of deterrence. The goal of them having nuclear weapons and any capability of launching them even 5 feet is to make everyone else fear the consequences of trying to attack them. Its also worth pointing out you don't need to put nukes on a rocket, they can still be carried by planes and launched via artillery. Likewise North Korea won't attack because they know the consequences of what will happen. You have to remember that its not a bunch of brainwashed civilians making decisions, its intelligent leaders who want to maintain their status, they gain nothing by attacking anyone else.[/QUOTE] NATO monitors every square inch of Earth with radar and satellites dude. NK has no chance of sneaking anything in. They're afraid, and always have been.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;47586859]NATO monitors every square inch of Earth with radar and satellites dude. NK has no chance of sneaking anything in. They're afraid, and always have been.[/QUOTE] Which is why we are surprised to find out Kim has more nukes that we thought... NATO doesn't monitor every square inch of the planet. This isn't a video game... We don't have a global system that monitors everytime some jackass takes a piss. if we did, we would have no problems.
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47586952]Which is why we are surprised to find out Kim has more nukes that we thought... NATO doesn't monitor every square inch of the planet. This isn't a video game... We don't have a global system that monitors everytime some jackass takes a piss. if we did, we would have no problems.[/QUOTE] No, but we can see shit incoming and we monitor points of interest.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;47586958]No, but we can see shit incoming and we monitor points of interest.[/QUOTE] We have a great radar network, and spy sats, yes. But we can't exactly see everything. We have early warning radars set up to check for incoming bogeys, which do a good job. When it comes for nuke stockpiles we rely on on the ground info, official numbers governments put out, etc. We may not be able to tell how many nukes fat boy has, but we can tell when he tests them by using seismographs, and we can tell when he launches missiles by radar. We can also tell when he is prepping by using Sats.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;47586569]That's basically what will happen. We'll all laugh as Pyongyang falls.[/QUOTE] Because millions of starving civilians dying is [I]funny[/I]
[QUOTE=BrainDeath;47590526]Because millions of starving civilians dying is [I]funny[/I][/QUOTE] No, but the shit their government says is funny.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;47581614]And so would a good chunk of the rest of the world. Nuclear war in any capacity now would be disasterous worldwide.[/QUOTE] Your talking about a country with a few warheads and no backup, they go nuclear, the US rolls in with everything we have and China would most likely stand back because no country could ever defend a first-strike nuclear attack.
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47587000]We have a great radar network, and spy sats, yes. But we can't exactly see everything. We have early warning radars set up to check for incoming bogeys, which do a good job. When it comes for nuke stockpiles we rely on on the ground info, official numbers governments put out, etc. We may not be able to tell how many nukes fat boy has, but we can tell when he tests them by using seismographs, and we can tell when he launches missiles by radar. We can also tell when he is prepping by using Sats.[/QUOTE] also while they could hide a bomb on a truck, rockets are really really unmistakable, especially on NK's tech level, plus the infastructure, what has come out seems to suggest they haven't been building launching silos, so they would have to be using mobile erectors which are again, easy to tell how many they have ooh automerge
[QUOTE=Sableye;47591851]also while they could hide a bomb on a truck, rockets are really really unmistakable, especially on NK's tech level, plus the infastructure, what has come out seems to suggest they haven't been building launching silos, so they would have to be using mobile erectors which are again, easy to tell how many they have ooh automerge[/QUOTE] You can launch nuclear weapons using artillery, dropping via plane, etc. Rockets are just the most obvious and easiest way to deliver them.
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47584370]In the opening shots of the war, Seoul would be destroyed. NK has thousands of artillery pieces aimed at Seoul, this is well known. Combine the fact that although NK has a geriatric air force, outdated guns, tanks, etc, they still have sheer numbers. Add in the possibility of nukes, the allied death toll is going to be very high. People laugh at the notion of North Korea causing damage, but the threat is very big to SK, and Japan. NK continues to develop longer range ballistic missiles while trying to minaturized their nukes so they could be fit onto missiles. They somehow have even acquired some Kh-35U surface to surface anti ship missiles, which are very similar to our Harpoon missiles. These are a threat to surface ships, especially SK's Navy ships. North Korea is a bigger threat then most people would really like to realize.[/QUOTE] That was pretty easily debunked. The North Koreans have nothing long enough range to hit Seoul, unless their arty literally sits at the DMZ. Sheer numbers also mean almost nothing in modern warfare, where drones, air superiority and the machine gun have effectively ended those as an actual method of overwhelming a secured position.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;47593918]You can launch nuclear weapons using artillery, dropping via plane, etc. Rockets are just the most obvious and easiest way to deliver them.[/QUOTE] There is no way the Norks have miniaturized warheads so much they're able to fit them in artillery. If they did they would also have miniaturized fusion weapons. [editline]25th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;47594152]That was pretty easily debunked. The North Koreans have nothing long enough range to hit Seoul, unless their arty literally sits at the DMZ. Sheer numbers also mean almost nothing in modern warfare, where drones, air superiority and the machine gun have effectively ended those as an actual method of overwhelming a secured position.[/QUOTE] Except, all of their arty does sit at the DMZ and it's nearly all >200mm stuff as well. Mix that in with chemical weapons which we know the Norks have tonnes of and it would be very unpleasent. Sheer numbers do matter when the Norks a very large number of aircraft even if they are outdated behind them. Drones also mean squat against any military that can field electronic warfare aircraft. If the Norks invaded and the US didn't use tactical nuclear weapons they would probably take half of South Korea before the US got its ass in gear and brought over troops from the US.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;47594152]That was pretty easily debunked. The North Koreans have nothing long enough range to hit Seoul, unless their arty literally sits at the DMZ. Sheer numbers also mean almost nothing in modern warfare, where drones, air superiority and the machine gun have effectively ended those as an actual method of overwhelming a secured position.[/QUOTE] They have tunnels and other things to conceal such stuff. Also chemical weapons. As for those concerned? This is a nation with a long history (Korea in general) that's been invaded by one nation or another though the ages. This makes a paranoid strain with in their psyche. Add that the N Koreans don't have a proper medical infrastructure and have report s of using meth for almost all ailments and you got a very paranoid popopulace Also sure an outdated airforce (correct me if I am wrong) but wooden biplanes don't show up on radar.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;47593918]You can launch nuclear weapons using artillery, dropping via plane, etc. Rockets are just the most obvious and easiest way to deliver them.[/QUOTE] No you can't do that. Bombs require some complicated arming, atmospheric detection system to cycle through detonating before it slams into the ground and doesn't go off, also this requires heavy bombers, none of which NK even has, artillery is off because it requires intimate knowledge about miniaturization of nuclear warheads and shockproofing because the last thing you want is it going off from the gun, and this would also require them to build very large guns, the US nuclear artillery for example was like 300 feet long and required very heavy manufacturing to work. You can't just put together a nuclear device and say its a bomb, there's specific technical developments that have to be met to make any delivery system able to use this warhead. The easiest and most likely method is they are hunting for a warhead that's small enough to replace the conventional ones on their current ballistic missiles which are medium to short range and are based on the scud and topol designs. This is scary in some ways because they have been exporting the designs and these missiles to Iran for years, and making them nuclear capable is potentially dangerous. But really any practical warhead is still a ways off and I do think if it gets to that point, China wanting to remain the only nuclear armed player in the region, will either backchannel with Washington or outright support a coup
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