'Alt-right' groups will 'revolt' if Trump shuns white supremacy, leaders say - Polidicks

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;51590451]It's intentionally vague. Anyone who isn't agree 100% with the narrative or ideology of the mainstream media can now be associated with Nazis and white supremacists. It's vague fearmongering bullshit designed to prevent any sort of rebuttal in a political discussion, if you can just label and dismiss all of your critics as crazy fascists.[/QUOTE]well, in this context we're talking about people who are pretty upfront about what their beliefs are and consider themselves alt-right. [quote]“Their hearts are bigger than their brains,” said Mark Weber, who runs the Institute for Historical Review, an organisation dedicated to exposing “Jewish-Zionist” power. “Saying they want to be the intellectual head of the Trump presidency is delusional.” Jared Taylor, a white supremacist who runs the self-termed “race-realist” magazine American Renaissance, said the president-elect had already backpedalled on several pledges that had fired up the far-right. “At first he promised to send back every illegal immigrant. Now he is waffling on that.” David Cole, a self-proclaimed Holocaust revisionist and Taki magazine columnist, envisaged the movement sliding into bickering and in-fighting, stuck in “rabbit warrens” of online trolling rather than policy shaping.[/quote] [quote]Taylor, another speaker, agreed. “It was going very well until (then). Richard Spencer has said that the way he closed the talk was meant as pure irony, and I hope that’s the case, that it was all ironic and over-exuberance. I don’t think that anything that has any whiff of Nazism is a particularly effective way to bring Americans or even Europeans to an effective understanding of race.”[/quote] i think they're pretty open about being white supremacists in this case.

And if Trump doesn't shun white supremacy, the [I]rest[/I] of us will revolt. I met a very nice lady last week, outside the state capitol (I take a shortcut through their grounds on the way to and from lunch). This was the day the Electoral College was doing their actual vote, and she was out there holding a sign for a mostly-symbolic protest against Trump (our state voted for Clinton, and several of the signs were just thanking our own delegates for voting the way we wanted). There was a small news crew but nothing major. She had come to the protest straight from church - the Catholic church just a block away. She had to be at least sixty, maybe seventy - she looked vaguely like Queen Elizabeth II, down to the hat and dress. (I never did get her name, so I'll call her Myrtle, because she totally looks like a Myrtle.) And she volunteered to me that, if the Electoral College wasn't going to do its job and block Trump from seizing office, she was going to go buy an AK and wait for the revolution to start. Now, I don't think a revolution is all that likely at this point - Trump is too much of a coward to do what he'd have to do to turn America into a dictatorship, and he's surrounding himself with too much of the status quo for any substantial change to seem likely. He's going to be horrible, don't get me wrong, but I'm not expecting it to be the end of the Union. But I might still stop by one of the gun stores I pass every day, just to see how much a FAL or an M14 is. If America does go the path of Civil War II: Electric Bugaloo, Myrtle's gonna need someone to cover her.

I hope it doesn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if the alt-right, regressive left, other groups rise up in rebellion against Trump.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51590396]My history books seem to be very different than yours.[/QUOTE] Explain. Because the Social Democrats didn't take the Nazis seriously (Otto Wels thought they could be protested against) and conservatives like Franz von Papen thought, "Well we can control them." The Communists attempted to resist and used violence, but they lacked the proper organization and preparation to destroy them. It's a shame too that Hitler wasn't executed after the Beer Hall Putsch. The point is there were many opportunities to stop them, but nobody was willing to use violent tactics in conjunction with proper organization in order to do it. Fascism is not to be debated, it is to be exterminated. If these fuckwits try to revolt, they will be killed-- if not by the police and military then by the citizenry. We will not tolerate racial supremacy in this country; it is contrary to our democratic and multicultural values.

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;51590473]well, in this context we're talking about people who are pretty upfront about what their beliefs are and consider themselves alt-right. i think they're pretty open about being white supremacists in this case.[/QUOTE] Yeah but then the article goes on to throw people who are against illegal immigration into the same group as the crazies. There has definitely been a trend of the media trying to throw moderates into the same category as hardliner genuine fascists.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;51590517]I hope it doesn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if the alt-right, regressive left, other groups rise up in rebellion against Trump.[/QUOTE] I won't even start explaining how dumb of a comment this is.

It's ironic that they quote the Southern Poverty Law Center on who's an extremist. (I'm not saying that those groups are not extremist, but that SPLC is also extremist.)

party like it's 1942 [editline]27th December 2016[/editline] kill all nazis, yeehaw

[QUOTE=Govna;51590518]Explain. Because the Social Democrats didn't take the Nazis seriously (Otto Wels thought they could be protested against) and conservatives like Franz von Papen thought, "Well we can control them." The Communists attempted to resist and used violence, but they lacked the proper organization and preparation to destroy them. It's a shame too that Hitler wasn't executed after the Beer Hall Putsch. The point is there were many opportunities to stop them, but nobody was willing to use violent tactics in conjunction with proper organization in order to do it. [/QUOTE] None of those things would have made a big difference with Hitler's rise to power. He had overwhelming popular support as well as the support of many high-rankers in the military, and he didn't get all that support just because he wasn't taken seriously by his adversaries.

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;51590520]Yeah but then the article goes on to throw people who are against illegal immigration into the same group as the crazies. There has definitely been a trend of the media trying to throw moderates into the same category as hardliner genuine fascists.[/QUOTE]there's two mentions of immigration in that article, one of them is about Trump gaining support from anti illegal immigration, and Trumps solution to that problem (the wall, saying he was going to remove all of them) is decidedly far right compared to 'moderate' republicans. the other mention was from a 'a self-proclaimed Holocaust revisionist'.

Is the alt right even real? I have literally never heard anyone use that term to refer to themselves.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51590554]Is the alt right even real? I have literally never heard anyone use that term to refer to themselves.[/QUOTE] It's overblown because people use it to describe anyone marginally conservative. Imagine more like 500 /pol/ / Stormfront users, not the second coming of the Reich. Consider that people have branded Pepe as an alt-right icon.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51590543]None of those things would have made a big difference with Hitler's rise to power. He had overwhelming popular support as well as the support of many high-rankers in the military, and he didn't get all that support just because he wasn't taken seriously by his adversaries.[/QUOTE] Which is why Hitler should've been killed, not protested or merely jailed. If he had been assassinated in the 1920s or executed after the Beer Hall Putsch, that would've solved the problem. He was the embodiment of the Nazi Party; without him, its popularity would've withered. It's dubious Gregor Strasser or Ernst Rohm could've continued as well as Hitler-- he was the cult of personality figurehead around which they hinged. Violence works in these situations.

[QUOTE=St33m;51590271]You've learned nothing from history.[/QUOTE] Fascism isn't to be debated, it is to be smashed.

[QUOTE=Thlis;51590570]It's overblown because people use it to describe anyone marginally conservative. Imagine more like 500 /pol/ / Stormfront users, not the second coming of the Reich. Consider that people have branded Pepe as an alt-right icon.[/QUOTE] Literally dozens of them more like.

[QUOTE=Govna;51590605]Which is why Hitler should've been killed, not protested or merely jailed. If he had been assassinated in the 1920s or executed after the Beer Hall Putsch, that would've solved the problem. He was the embodiment of the Nazi Party; without him, its popularity would've withered. It's dubious Gregor Strasser or Ernst Rohm could've continued as well as Hitler-- he was the cult of personality figurehead around which they hinged. Violence works in these situations.[/QUOTE] Well that would be a direct betrayal of democracy. If anything he should've been executed or imprisoned for life for his attempted Putsch (no idea how he managed to slip out of that one), but I don't like the idea of assassinating someone whose ideals are just so far away from yours, even if it's Hitler. Israeli peace efforts died with a far-rightist assassinating Yitzhak Rabin so I'm a bit salty over assassinating politicians.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51590543]He had overwhelming popular support[/QUOTE] False. In the last free elections in Germany, in November 1932, the Nazi Party gained only a 33% plurality, not a majority. The conservative parties that, as a coalition, remained in power fell because they tried to extend that coalition to the NDSAP, only to end up driven out or, in some cases, literally murdered. [QUOTE=Bertie;51590543]as well as the support of many high-rankers in the military[/QUOTE] Not true, at least at first. The Nazis had to purge much of the existing officer corps when they took power, because they were fiercely disloyal to the new regime. Even as late as 1938, the general staff of the Wehrmacht was planning to depose Hitler - and it is possible that, had Chamberlain not gone with an appeasement strategy, the Wehrmacht would have revolted when Hitler declared war, thus preventing WW2 in Europe.

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;51590451] Getting back on topic though, lmfao at this whole "they will revolt" narrative they decided to go with. No one has done shit about way worse things such as the Snowden leaks and the atrocity that was the Patriot Act, so I very much doubt anyone will do something about a politician being slightly misleading in his language during an election.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1546759"]I stand corrected[/URL] Get me off this ride 2016.

[QUOTE=1239the;51590243]Do it. I've always wanted to kill a real life Nazi.[/QUOTE] Yes, I too have vivid fantasies about killing other people over ideological disagreements. Oh wait no, no I don't. Because that's weird. Like yeah I agree nazis are bad n' shit but come on, shouldn't we be above violence as our preferred solution to ideological conflict here? Otherwise tbh you're just as bad or worse than they are.

I think if racists didn't revolt under a black president I doubt they would under a white one

But the alt-right is already revolting

Alt-right boogeyman will literally come out from under your bed and kill brown people if trump doesn't declare white people "da best". Seriously sick of hearing the name Richard Spencer, no politician is going to take him or any of his 30k Twitter followers seriously, he's not relevant.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51590629]Well that would be a direct betrayal of democracy. If anything he should've been executed or imprisoned for life for his attempted Putsch (no idea how he managed to slip out of that one), but I don't like the idea of assassinating someone whose ideals are just so far away from yours, even if it's Hitler.[/QUOTE] No it wouldn't be-- it would be [i]saving[/i] democracy. Democracy does not mean a free-for-all where people, like Hitler, who openly and unashamedly admit that they want to use it in order to destroy it and impose dictatorship/oligarchy are tolerated. Allowing them to continue unopposed is not only undemocratic, it's fucking stupid and shows a complete lack of self-preservation and established national principles. You're just enabling your own self-destruction with that kind of mindset. I really think people only pull the "even Hitler" card because they want to sound morally superior to everybody else, not because they actually believe that rhetoric. Because if they actually lived through that era and if they saw what Hitler and the Nazis did, then they'd understand that such relativistic and pacifistic thinking is complete bullshit. There's a reason why survivors of that era ran with the slogan "never again": because it [i]was[/i] horrifying, and it could've-- and should've-- been prevented from happening in the first place. Tens of millions of people died because of Hitler and the Nazis; people like that must be stopped from ever coming to power. They are dangerous, and you cannot ignore them. They must be taken seriously and treated as a legitimate threat. Tolerance of their intolerance only ever causes more problems in the end and provides no solutions. You must be intolerant of their intolerance, and you must willing to fight back against it. I worry for our future if this mindset continues to disappear. [editline]27 December 2016[/editline] If there's actual attempts by them and incidents of violence, then we're going to have to crack down on them once and for all. It's just that simple. We can't keep playing this game forever. Whether or not they'll actually go through with anything, who knows. They didn't under Obama, but tensions are at a new high, and they're not showing signs of getting any better. It could very well come to trouble. If it does, then we need to be prepared. We don't need to take preemptive action necessarily, that's not what I believe. I believe we should just be prepared in case it does come to trouble is all.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;51590947]Alt-right boogeyman will literally come out from under your bed and kill brown people if trump doesn't declare white people "da best". Seriously sick of hearing the name Richard Spencer, no politician is going to take him or any of his 30k Twitter followers seriously, he's not relevant.[/QUOTE] or maybe we could recognize that racism is alive and well and its not just a "boogeyman", like what do you expect? for people to just not bring up the fact that a facist movement really does exist? to remain quiet about it? I agree that the threat of nationalists coming to power is overinflated, but we can't just ignore a bunch of people threatening to "revolt"

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51590337]which alt right everyone who isnt mainline republican or a religious conservative is now alt right, the term is essentially meaningless[/QUOTE] It means anyone who won't vote Hillary.

[QUOTE=Chaplin;51590981]or maybe we could recognize that racism is alive and well and its not just a "boogeyman", like what do you expect? for people to just not bring up the fact that a facist movement really does exist? to remain quiet about it? I agree that the threat of nationalists coming to power is overinflated, but we can't just ignore a bunch of people threatening to "revolt"[/QUOTE] Literally everything is "alive and well" in some degree or another. The question is whether they actually have power, and in this case, then answer is no.

[QUOTE=Chaplin;51590981]or maybe we could recognize that racism is alive and well and its not just a "boogeyman", like what do you expect? for people to just not bring up the fact that a facist movement really does exist? to remain quiet about it? I agree that the threat of nationalists coming to power is overinflated, but we can't just ignore a bunch of people threatening to "revolt"[/QUOTE] The whole MO of the left is the equivalent of a kid slapping another kid and cries foul when people act shitty back and then cries victim to weasel out of their shit behavior Your paranoid fever dreams created this nightmare You need the alt right as badly a battered woman needs an abusive spouse.

[QUOTE=Govna;51590968]Tolerance of their intolerance only ever causes more problems in the end and provides no solutions. You must be intolerant of their intolerance, and you must willing to fight back against it. I worry for our future if this mindset continues to disappear. [editline]27 December 2016[/editline] If there's actual attempts by them and incidents of violence, then we're going to have to crack down on them once and for all. It's just that simple. We can't keep playing this game forever. Whether or not they'll actually go through with anything, who knows. They didn't under Obama, but tensions are at a new high, and they're not showing signs of getting any better. It could very well come to trouble. If it does, then we need to be prepared.[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ and I thought I was paranoid.

[QUOTE=Guriosity;51591018]The whole MO of the left is the equivalent of a kid slapping another kid and cries foul when people act shitty back and then cries victim to weasel out of their shit behavior Your paranoid fever dreams created this nightmare You need the alt right as badly a battered woman needs an abusive spouse.[/QUOTE] what the fuck are you on about the alt right exists because racists are getting tired of living in a world that doesn't want them and hey good analogy, the badly battered woman doesn't need an abuser at all just like the world doesn't need a bunch of fascists in the street

[QUOTE=soulharvester;51591019]Jesus Christ and I thought I was paranoid.[/QUOTE] Our political landscape today has become very unpredictable, aggressive, and threatening. We're seeing more and more of the legitimization of the views held by groups like the National Policy Institute ([url=http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/]the "Hail Trump! Hail Victory!" fuckheads[/url]) and individuals like Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon, Carl Paladino, etc. That's not paranoia, that's a factual appraisal of the situation. Preparedness is sensible. What's happening here is not good, whether we're talking about the Alt-Right specifically or the direction that American politics in general has started taking; that's exactly why so many people today are worried and are upset.