Teen killed after sticking head through party bus roof near George Washington Bridge - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Protocol7;37493342]Or we can stop complaining about the definition of the word deserve. I've made it clear what my definition is. Instead of accepting that I am using a different word to say the same thing you are, we have now turned the entire last page into a clusterfuck of shit that doesn't matter. The point is, the kid fucked up. He made a bad decision. He's an idiot for sticking his head out of the bus in the first place. We all agree on that, yes? But what is so asinine about having some sympathy for the fact that the kid had some really bad luck when he stuck his head out of the bus? Kid just wanted to have some innocent fun, has his face shaved off by an overpass. It is unfortunate. It was traumatic to the kids on the bus who saw it happen. But using your definition of "deserve", then, I still think he didn't deserve it. His photo makes him look like a pretty happy, normal kid - certainly not the type of kid whose face you want to scrape off an overpass.[/QUOTE] Please rethink the implications of the last sentence of that post. And this is not innocent fun.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;37493342]Kid just wanted to have some innocent fun, has his face shaved off by an overpass. It is unfortunate. It was traumatic to the kids on the bus who saw it happen. But using your definition of "deserve", then, I still think he didn't deserve it. His photo makes him look like a pretty happy, normal kid - certainly not the type of kid whose face you want to scrape off an overpass.[/QUOTE] Thank you. Also there's a good chance that he was drinking. So it's not like his reaction time and judgement could have been impaired at all either.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;37493355]Do you really think the kid was paying attention to [i]why[/i] he was told not to open it? All he knew was he wanted to open it and he was told not to by a security guard. Seriously, kid caught up in the excitement of going to a party, big group of friends, clearly wants to show off, told by security guard don't open the hatch, what do you think he's gonna do?[/QUOTE] Open the hatch. Overpass: Unfortunate. Opening the hatch: Being stupid.

[QUOTE=Killuah;37493361]Please rethink the implications of the last sentence of that post. And this is not innocent fun.[/QUOTE] It's not innocent fun as an afterthought, but like Pierre said, the kid didn't expect there to be any danger. I bet he said something like "Hey, the guard went down! I'm gonna stick my head out of the hatch for a sec!" Whereas with the electric rail scenario, the danger is obvious. It's seriously a case of bad luck.

[QUOTE=DamagePoint;37493366]Thank you. Also there's a good chance that he was drinking. So it's not like his reaction time and judgement could have been impaired at all either.[/QUOTE] What is your point with that?

[QUOTE=Killuah;37493375]Open the hatch. Overpass: Unfortunate. Opening the hatch: Being stupid.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying it wasn't stupid but you and dogmachine are going on about it like there was no reason for him to not see that it was stupid, I'm explaining why he didn't see it as stupid at the time.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;37493355]Do you really think the kid was paying attention to [i]why[/i] he was told not to open it? All he knew was he wanted to open it and he was told not to by a security guard. Seriously, kid caught up in the excitement of going to a party, big group of friends, clearly wants to show off, told by security guard don't open the hatch, what do you think he's gonna do?[/QUOTE] Peer pressure is not an excuse for doing dumb shit.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37493390]Peer pressure is not an excuse for doing dumb shit.[/QUOTE] Peer pressure is the exact reason most people this age do stupid shit, what are you on about?

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37493390]Peer pressure is not an excuse for doing dumb shit.[/QUOTE] You're actually retarded, how can you not see how all the factors together made him not consider the danger?

[QUOTE=Protocol7;37493379]It's not innocent fun as an afterthought, but like Pierre said, the kid didn't expect there to be any danger. Whereas with the electric rail scenario, the danger is obvious. It's seriously a case of bad luck.[/QUOTE] A serious case of bad luck is when a meteorite hits your house. When the kids across play baseball and the ball goes through your window and hits the radio into your bathtub. A serious case of bad luck is when you did nothing and bad things happen. That's pretty much what "luck" is. Something happens (good or bad) and you had nothing to do with it. He took action. Bad things happened.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;37493397]Peer pressure is the exact reason most people this age do stupid shit, what are you on about?[/QUOTE] I didn't say it's not a valid reason, I said it's not an excuse. Try telling a judge that you went joyriding because of peer pressure. He won't give a single shit.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;37493401]You're actually retarded, how can you not see how all the factors together made him not consider the danger?[/QUOTE] Because you don't need to consider the danger when you listen to what you are told by A [B]SAFETY GUARD[/B]

[QUOTE=Killuah;37493403]A serious case of bad luck is when a meteorite hits your house. When the kids across play baseball and the ball goes through your window and hits the radio into your bathtub. A serious case of bad luck is when you did nothing and bad things happen. That's pretty much what "luck" is. Something happens (good or bad) and you had nothing to do with it. He took action. Bad things happened.[/QUOTE] Wrong place, wrong time. How's that click with you? It's the same thing, the only difference is he put himself into a situation where bad luck is a very serious threat.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;37493401]You're actually retarded, how can you not see how all the factors together made him not consider the danger?[/QUOTE] My entire point is that he is stupid because he let his judgement be clouded and did something lethally dumb.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;37493413]Wrong place, wrong time. How's that click with you? It's the same thing, the only difference is he put himself into a situation where bad luck is a very serious threat.[/QUOTE] Right place, right time, wrong move.

[QUOTE=Killuah;37493411]Because you don't need to consider the danger when you listen to what you are told by A [B]SAFETY GUARD[/B][/QUOTE] If he's anything like the security at any high school near me, they probably didn't take him seriously at all.

[QUOTE=Killuah;37493411]Because you don't need to consider the danger when you listen to what you are told by A [B]SAFETY GUARD[/B][/QUOTE] More like you don't have to consider the danger when it's pointed out to you by somebody there for your safety.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37493414]My entire point is that he is stupid because he let his judgement be clouded and did something lethally dumb.[/QUOTE] People don't just [i]let[/i] their fucking judgement become clouded, it happens due to external factors that can often be outside of someones control.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;37493421]If he's anything like the security at any high school near me, they probably didn't take him seriously at all.[/QUOTE] Now whose fault is that?

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37493423]More like you don't have to consider the danger when it's pointed out to you by somebody there for your safety.[/QUOTE] I hate to go straight back into the ad hominem stage, but I can't believe anyone would think any normal 16 year old kid would listen to a 41 year-old "safety guard" seriously.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;37493434]I hate to go straight back into the ad hominem stage, but I can't believe anyone would think any normal 16 year old kid would listen to a 41 year-old "safety guard" seriously.[/QUOTE] Maybe it's because I listened when adults said something was dangerous. Anyway, ignoring a safety guard is his fault, no-one else's. What happened was tragic, but avoidable.

[QUOTE=TrippyJuicyj;37492388]sometimes I just [IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9agukVfqV1rtohg4.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] I know I'm late but what show was this?

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;37493430]People don't just [i]let[/i] their fucking judgement become clouded, it happens due to external factors that can often be outside of someones control.[/QUOTE] What exactly are you trying to say? That he's not responsible for opening the hatch? [editline]1st September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Protocol7;37493434]I hate to go straight back into the ad hominem stage, but I can't believe anyone would think any normal 16 year old kid would listen to a 41 year-old "safety guard" seriously.[/QUOTE] And that is where you are posting assumptions.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;37493430]People don't just [i]let[/i] their fucking judgement become clouded, it happens due to external factors that can often be outside of someones control.[/QUOTE] Isn't this where Darwin comes in? He ignored the danger to look cool, so he isn't in the gene pool. It sounds mean as hell to say, and it's tragic that it happened, but it's his own damn fault.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37493453]What happened was tragic, but avoidable.[/QUOTE] Nobody's ignoring that, but an understanding of basic teen psychology needs to be established, so here we go: [QUOTE]To fully understand youth decision-making, one must consider the full picture, the context in which youth decision-making takes place. Knowing the risks of various activities is only one factor among many in teens’ decision-making. Decisionmaking is affected by: personality; stage of development; overall maturity; cognitive, social, and emotional development; family; peers; as well as biological factors such as brain development. Teens tend to value options and potential outcomes differently than do adults, so what may look to an adult like an uninformed decision may look to a teen like a decision made systematically. For example, getting hurt or failing a test may not be a big deal to a teen; avoiding being teased at school may be a huge deal. [/QUOTE] Also, the important part: [QUOTE][B]They often overestimate their ability to identify and avoid dangerous situations (Fischhoff et al., 1999).[/B][/QUOTE] So I hope after this point I don't have to explain why, while you think what the kid did was illogical, he thought it was a perfectly good option.

[QUOTE=Killuah;37493459]What exactly are you trying to say? That he's not responsible for opening the hatch?[/QUOTE] Forget it, seriously this argument is going fucking nowhere slow, my point is that while he is indeed responsible for what happened he wasn't in his regualr state of mind due to the influence of external factors such as being in a large crowd, excitement for a party, being a teenager and being told by an authority figure to not do something. Of course he's gonna open the fucking hatch when he's been told not to.

[QUOTE=TCB;37493457]I know I'm late but what show was this?[/QUOTE] Jay Jay the Jet Plane? Please never change your avatar.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37493472]Isn't this where Darwin comes in? He ignored the danger to look cool, so he isn't in the gene pool. It sounds mean as hell to say, and it's tragic that it happened, but it's his own damn fault.[/QUOTE] For the love of fuck, [b]he didn't see the danger to ignore it because his judgement was impaired due to external factors.[/b]

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;37493475]Forget it, seriously this argument is going fucking nowhere slow, my point is that while he is indeed responsible for what happened he wasn't in his regualr state of mind due to the influence of external factors such as being in a large crowd, excitement for a party, being a teenager and being told by an authority figure to not do something. Of course he's gonna open the fucking hatch when he's been told not to.[/QUOTE] What I'm saying is his state of mind is irrelevant, his actions were stupid whether he was on the bus alone or at twice the legal BAC level. [editline]1st September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;37493486]For the love of fuck, [b]he didn't see the danger to ignore it because his judgement was impaired due to external factors.]/b][/QUOTE] No need to lose your head. [editline]1st September 2012[/editline] I feel terrible.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;37493486]For the love of fuck, [b]he didn't see the danger to ignore it because his judgement was impaired due to external factors.]/b][/QUOTE] Yes that poor kid was certainly the victim of circumstances when he opened the hatch(note : NOT when he hit the overpass) *Disc:All of that above is sarcasm*