• Communism lives on in Japan.
    254 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19437212]No.[/QUOTE] Yes.
ITT: People think communism is all evil and want to nuke japan.
[QUOTE=madmanmad;19437882]ITT: People think communism is all evil and want to nuke japan.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, and perhaps sarcastically, but yes, despite the ignorance of those thoughts.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19437955]Unfortunately, and perhaps sarcastically, but yes, despite the ignorance of those thoughts.[/QUOTE] Communism is fail and always will be fail. It is just a shitty form of government.
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438012]Communism is fail and always will be fail. It is just a shitty form of government.[/QUOTE] How so? Other than corrupted or falsely communist leaders.
[QUOTE=Termy58;19436106]Isn't uh every form of government in existence?[/QUOTE] Coercive force as a whole is a terrible idea.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19438048]How so? Other than corrupted or falsely communist leaders.[/QUOTE] There is no competition in the market. This means no big video game companies competing for the best video games. No auto companies making the best cars. No GPU manufacturers making better GPUs then their rivals, etc. There would be a far lesser range of innovations in all fields. Medical, space related, cars, etc. In a communist country, you have no freedom to choose what job you are given. The government chooses this for you no matter if you like it or not. I could go on but I think I'm just beating a dead horse here.
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438198]There is no competition in the market. This means no big video game companies competing for the best video games. No auto companies making the best cars. No GPU manufacturers making better GPUs then their rivals, etc. There would be a far lesser range of innovations in all fields. Medical, space related, cars, etc. In a communist country, you have no freedom to choose what job you are given. The government chooses this for you no matter if you like it or not. I could go on but I think I'm just beating a dead horse here.[/QUOTE] Yes, but in that system, not only would you have job security, but security of health with the healthcare the government provides. At least you would not be poor. Those things you are describing happen in an ideal communist governmental system, so I am speaking of that in terms of healthcare.
Wait, I haven't quite read into this in quite a while, but wasn't the goal set by Marx to be a stateless society?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19438228]At least you would not be poor.[/QUOTE] What? Have you ever seen Cuba? China? The USSR? [QUOTE=Megafanx13;19438228]Yes, but in that system, not only would you have job security, but security of health with the healthcare the government provides.[/QUOTE] You only have job security because the government forces you to do work that you have no interest in for several years and then they take you from that job and then force you to work in another field for several years. Repeat this until dead.
[QUOTE=Kamikaze;19438244]Wait, I haven't quite read into this in quite a while, but wasn't the goal set by Marx to be a stateless society?[/QUOTE] Well he used the term "classless", but yes. There should not be "rich" or "poor", but a middle ground that everyone is a part of.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19438297]Well he used the term "classless", but yes. There should not be "rich" or "poor", but a middle ground that everyone is a part of.[/QUOTE] But there is no middle ground. The "middle ground" that you are referring to isn't a middle ground. It's just slightly above poor. This is what is wrong with communism.
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438285]What? Have you ever seen Cuba? China? The USSR?[/QUOTE] I am speaking of an ideal situation, that is the goal. Simply because those countries and unions did not do it well, does not make it a bad system.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19438297]Well he used the term "classless", but yes. There should not be "rich" or "poor", but a middle ground that everyone is a part of.[/QUOTE] Stateless. As in a lack of a state, or government if you will. So therefore, the arguments against Communism stating that the state would force a job upon you would eventually be void. So you can't blame the actual ideology, but instead the people who corrupt and change it.
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438337]But there is no middle ground. The "middle ground" that you are referring to isn't a middle ground. It's just slightly above poor. This is what is wrong with communism.[/QUOTE] Again, this is an ideal situation I am using for my example, not one that has already happened.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19438228] Those things you are describing happen in an ideal communist governmental system, so I am speaking of that in terms of healthcare.[/QUOTE] But since there is no free market and therefore little or no innovation, the healthcare would be subpar with the rest of the world. It doesn't matter if the government secures universal healthcare if the healthcare is shit to begin with.
[QUOTE=Kamikaze;19438357]Stateless. As in a lack of a state, or government if you will. So therefore, the arguments against Communism stating that the state would force a job upon you would eventually be void. So you can't blame the actual ideology, but instead the people who corrupt and change it.[/QUOTE] Well that's what I've been saying. Communism is not at fault, but the corrupt who are within the countries that tried to use it.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19438348]I am speaking of an ideal situation, that is the goal. Simply because those countries and unions did not do it well, does not make it a bad system.[/QUOTE] YES IT DOES. Every single time that communism has ever been implemented in a large society, it has failed. This isn't because of corruption and bad leaders or what ever else you keep using as a scapegoat. It failed because communism is SHIT. It just doesn't work with a large group of people AKA a country.
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438379]But since there is no free market and therefore little or no innovation, the healthcare would be subpar with the rest of the world. It doesn't matter if the government secures universal healthcare if the healthcare is shit to begin with.[/QUOTE] Well then you could wait until the state of healthcare reaches a point where it is acceptable.
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438407]YES IT DOES. Every single time that communism has ever been implemented in a large society, it has failed. This isn't because of corruption and bad leaders or what ever else you keep using as a scapegoat. It failed because communism is SHIT.[/QUOTE] Capitalism is just as bad. Mutualism4lyfe.
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438407]YES IT DOES. Every single time that communism has ever been implemented in a large society, it has failed. This isn't because of corruption and bad leaders or what ever else you keep using as a scapegoat. It failed because communism is SHIT. It just doesn't work with a large group of people AKA a country.[/QUOTE] Well then there is not much else I can say. I am speaking of an ideal situation, you are using real world examples and yelling that communism is shit. No system is perfect, refinement is necessary.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19438416]Well then you could wait until the state of healthcare reaches a point where it is acceptable.[/QUOTE] With no free market and the little innovations that are caused by this, that's going to be a looooong fucking time before it becomes acceptable with the rest of the world.
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438467]With no free market and the little innovations that are caused by this, that's going to be a looooong fucking time before it becomes acceptable with the rest of the world.[/QUOTE] Well then use a Free Market system until it does.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;19438462]Well then there is not much else I can say. I am speaking of an ideal situation, you are using real world examples and yelling that communism is shit. No system is perfect, refinement is necessary.[/QUOTE] But there is no such thing as an ideal situation. If you have an idea but then you test it several times over a couple hundred years and it keeps failing, then you should drop the fucking idea. Communism has been given its chances. It has failed each one time and time again. It will keep doing so. When you have an idea that keeps failing, you don't keep the fucking idea. Ever hear of the scientific method? You suck at it. [editline]10:45PM[/editline] [quote=megafanx13;19438488]well then use a free market system until it does.[/quote] But that is not communism!
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438527]But there is no such thing as an ideal situation. If you have an idea but then you test it several times over a couple hundred years and it keeps failing, then you should drop the fucking idea. Communism has been given its chances. It has failed each one time and time again. It will keep doing so. When you have an idea that keeps failing, you don't keep the fucking idea. Ever hear of the scientific method? You suck at it. [editline]10:45PM[/editline] but that is not communism![/QUOTE] I still believe it can work, but you are free to your opinion that it will not. I have no more arguable points to raise.
[QUOTE=Tameric;19438527] [editline]10:45PM[/editline] But that is not communism![/QUOTE] Universal Healthcare is capitalism eh ? douche
Why are people surprised by this? [url=http://www.communist-party.ca/]Behold, the Communist Party of Canada[/url]
In the Soviet Union, the standard of living was rising (provided being at a slow rate). The peasants became intellectuals and a feudal society became a world superpower. Take Uzbekistan for example, thanks to the Soviet Union, they now have a higher literacy rate than the United States. Capitalism is like an advanced form of feudalism. Only the entrepreneurs are the kings. [editline]08:33PM[/editline] People in a communist society have completely different ideology than those of a capitalist. So you can't really say greed is a contributing factor. The reason it worked in the USSR is because the peasants had no possessions and they wanted everybody to be treated equally and have rights. Their children were raised with communal ideologies. People had respect for teachers, mechanics, farmers, etc. Even more respect for the intellectuals (ie, scientists, doctors, politicians). What a person earned was not a factor, and people generally picked their jobs out of the love of it. Doctors became doctors because they wanted to help the society. Engineers became engineers to construct wonderful feats of engineering (huge dams, nuclear power plants, bridges). Take a look at the Moscow University for example: [img]http://www.msu.ru/img/msu_build.jpg[/img] In the US, money is everything. People focus on the monetary value of jobs. You've got doctors that just do the job in order to extract as much money from you. People sue others left and right. It's a spawning ground for greed. It's a completely different ideology; every man for himself. Socialist things had to be implemented, such as regulation (food ingredients, the ban of harmful materials in foods and items (IE lead paint, mercury)), child labor laws, minimum wage, work unions. Those are all Socialist things.
[QUOTE=Wakka;19439117]In the Soviet Union, the standard of living was rising (provided being at a slow rate). The peasants became intellectuals and a feudal society became a world superpower. Take Uzbekistan for example, thanks to the Soviet Union, they now have a higher literacy rate than the United States. Capitalism is like an advanced form of feudalism. Only the entrepreneurs are the kings. [editline]08:33PM[/editline] People in a communist society have completely different ideology than those of a capitalist. So you can't really say greed is a contributing factor. The reason it worked in the USSR is because the peasants had no possessions and they wanted everybody to be treated equally and have rights. Their children were raised with communal ideologies. People had respect for teachers, mechanics, farmers, etc. Even more respect for the intellectuals (ie, scientists, doctors, politicians). What a person earned was not a factor, and people generally picked their jobs out of the love of it. Doctors became doctors because they wanted to help the society. Engineers became engineers to construct wonderful feats of engineering (huge dams, nuclear power plants, bridges). Take a look at the Moscow University for example: [img]http://www.msu.ru/img/msu_build.jpg[/img] In the US, money is everything. People focus on the monetary value of jobs. You've got doctors that just do the job in order to extract as much money from you. People sue others left and right. It's a spawning ground for greed. It's a completely different ideology; every man for himself. Socialist things had to be implemented, such as regulation (food ingredients, the ban of harmful materials in foods and items (IE lead paint, mercury)), child labor laws, minimum wage, work unions. Those are all Socialist things.[/QUOTE] This is true. I did not know much about the appearance of Moscow University.
I love communism but I hate it in practice! D: "Karl Marx. I don't know him" LOL.
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