[QUOTE=Riutet;41995943]Nothing wrong with profiling someone when you have probable cause.[/QUOTE]
It's easy to say that when you're talking about lolicon and anime, and not something along the lines of, say, being suspicious of someone doing something against the law due to their ethnicity.
[QUOTE=Simski;41995244]I wonder if this also applies to furries. If not, does it apply to catgirls?[/QUOTE]
they can take our lolicon BUT THEY CAN NEVER TAKE our FURRIES!!!!
(its probably next in the global crackdown on internet freedoms)
[QUOTE=Ern;41995970]It's easy to say that when you're talking about lolicon and anime, and not something along the lines of, say, being suspicious of someone doing something against the law due to their ethnicity.[/QUOTE]
This continues to be a ridiculous comparison. Please quit purporting that you being profiled as being part of an interest group (based on the fact that you are openly advertising yourself as having those interests) is in any way similar to somebody assuming a black guy is up to no good because he's black.
[QUOTE=Shosray2;41995956]a few posts up you said every lolicon post here was based on emotion and not logic or reason, however you attempt to call everybody out who doesnt agree with you as an idiot then proceed to throw around terms you learned in english II like you know what they mean. i'm being completely calm, cool, and collected about this and all you're doing is trying to hammer everybody else here down in order to further your own argument, which, quite frankly, makes no sense.[/QUOTE]
So far all you've done is google a friggin wikipedia definition. At least he even has an argument.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41995977]This continues to be a ridiculous comparison; please quit purporting that you being profiled as being part of an interest group (based on the fact that you are openly advertising yourself as having those interests) is in any way similar to somebody assuming a black guy is up to no good because he's black.[/QUOTE]
I didn't read your last post when I posted that, so apologies if I sound like I'm using the same comparison after you believe it to be a "bad" comparison.
Am I not allowed to say that France's ban on Lolicon is unjustified just because something I do may or may not lead you to believe I enjoy what they're banning?
This is some backwards thinking going on here.
[QUOTE=Ern;41996007]Am I not allowed to say that France's ban on Lolicon is unjustified just because something I do may or may not lead you to believe I enjoy what they're banning?[/QUOTE]
Whether you enjoy or don't enjoy lolicon, or whether people are indifferent to or are disgusted by lolicon should not be involved in a decision involving banning lolicon in any way.
[QUOTE=Ern;41996007]I didn't read your last post when I posted that, so apologies if I sound like I'm using the same comparison after you believe it to be a "bad" comparison.
Am I not allowed to say that France's ban on Lolicon is unjustified just because something I do may or may not lead you to believe I enjoy what they're banning?
This is some backwards thinking going on here.[/QUOTE]
Except I've already said multiple times that I think banning it is silly. Now you're just deliberately strawmanning in an attempt to avoid your logical whoopsies.
[QUOTE=elevate;41996035]Whether you enjoy or don't enjoy lolicon, or whether people are indifferent to or are disgusted by lolicon should not be involved in a decision involving banning lolicon in any way.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't that entirely the point of my first 2 posts?
You and BigDumbAmerican have a strange way of supporting my idea there.
[QUOTE=Ern;41996057]Wasn't that entirely the point of my first 2 posts?
You and BigDumbAmerican have a strange way of supporting my idea there.[/QUOTE]
Point out the "strangeness" of the way me and him support your idea. Me and him, and most other people in this thread have never advocated the banning of lolicon, although some have picked at auxiliary parts of this whole debate, such as profiling.
[QUOTE=elevate;41996035]Whether you enjoy or don't enjoy lolicon, or whether people are indifferent to or are disgusted by lolicon should not be involved in a decision involving banning lolicon in any way.[/QUOTE]
Then why is this even a issue here!? If it has no bearing then people should keep their big mouths shut.
It's like the only reason BDA and Shosray2 brought it up was to jab at Ern at his expense.
[QUOTE=Ern;41996057]Wasn't that entirely the point of my first 2 posts?
You and BigDumbAmerican have a strange way of supporting my idea there.[/QUOTE]
The only thing we're supporting is that animes don't have feelings, and there is no grounds to assume that somebody who gets busy with loli porn also wants to molest real children, and so making it illegal is groundless and silly; that doesn't say anything about our opinions on loli porn itself, or the people who enjoy it, and clarifying these positions is relevant towards our stance.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41996091]The only thing we're supporting is that animes don't have feelings, and there is no grounds to assume that somebody who gets busy with loli porn also wants to molest real children, and so making it illegal is groundless and silly; that doesn't say anything about our opinions on loli porn itself, or the people who enjoy it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ern;41995623]Every anti-lolicon post here is based purely on emotion. Not logic, nor reason.
Your "Reasoning" is simply "It's icky it should be illegal".
That mindset can be used on basically everything and yield the same results (One of them being, at least on Facepunch, suffocation via Boxes).
What makes you think it's a good idea to say such a stupid thing in here?[/QUOTE]
I'm stating how that specific set of mind isn't favourable in this discussion. What about that doesn't support yours and Elevate's agendas?
There was no need to bring up anything about me. Even when I claimed you were generalising things, the fact of that matter is that you were, and that discussion should have been stopped their immediately; you're smart enough to know what you were doing.
France's ban is unfair. Done, now let's stop arguing about amines.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;41996117]What the fuck is an "Animes"[/QUOTE]
It's the place where waifus live.
[QUOTE=Ern;41995871]Oh no I've been caught! Back to the bunker I go!
But ~le epic zinger~ aside, you're still profiling, which is something most people here hate but funnily enough are proudly and openly doing so in this thread.[/QUOTE]
BDA is right, you are a pretty disgusting individual.
[QUOTE=Ern;41996116]I'm stating how that specific set of mind isn't favourable in this discussion. What about that doesn't support yours and Elevate's agendas?
There was no need to bring up anything about me. Even when I claimed you were generalising things, the fact of that matter is that you were, and that discussion should have been stopped their immediately; you're smart enough to know what you were doing.
France's ban is unfair. Done, now let's stop arguing about amines.[/QUOTE]
Do you really believe that clarifying positions on a subject of debate is pointless?
[I]Do you think that it is wrong to allow gays to marry?
Contender 1: Yes!
Contender 2: No!
Thank you, good argument everybody.[/I]
[QUOTE=Cowabanga;41996132]BDA is right, you are a pretty disgusting individual.[/QUOTE]
You're putting words in his mouth you know. You should probably stop.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41996136]Do you really believe that clarifying positions on a subject of debate is pointless?
[I]Do you think that it is wrong to allow gays to marry?
Contender 1: Yes!
Contender 2: No!
Thank you, good argument everybody.[/I][/QUOTE]
I'm not seeing any correlation here, and you're still going on about this when I just finished it.
What are you doing
Oh yes let's bring gays into this discussion, I'm all set and ready for a (what, third?) shitstorm :downs:
[QUOTE=Ern;41996116]There was no need to bring up anything about me.[/QUOTE]
I apologize for that myself but the point of a debate is to learn, although mainly about the topic at hand, not any auxiliary debates that often form during a debate, which usually seems inevitable. However, I wanted to post my point in that auxiliary debate, because I didn't want to pass up the opportunity, and hopefully we could learn from each other from each others viewpoints.
Also, apologies if my wording is a bit off. I've been opening up in these debate threads as a way to practice articulating my ideas better, although that information is pretty irrelevant to all of this.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41996136]Do you really believe that clarifying positions on a subject of debate is pointless?
[I]Do you think that it is wrong to allow gays to marry?
Contender 1: Yes!
Contender 2: No!
Thank you, good argument everybody.[/I][/QUOTE]
Could you stop being a twat and drop it? This line of "debate" is not accomplishing anything other than to make you look like a generalizing prick.
[QUOTE=Ern;41996153]You're putting words in his mouth you know. You should probably stop.
I'm not seeing any correlation here, and you're still going on about this when I just finished it.
What are you doing[/QUOTE]
It is an example of how your reasoning does not make sense. You proposed that simply because we reach the same conclusion in the end on a specific topic, that there is no further course for clarification or discussion of our reasoning behind the conclusion, or our personal feelings toward it. There is no debate without clarification and expansion of arguments.
[QUOTE=elevate;41996181]I apologize for that myself but the point of a debate is to learn, although mainly about the topic at hand, not any auxiliary debates that often form during a debate, which usually seems inevitable. However, I wanted to post my point in that auxiliary debate, because I didn't want to pass up the opportunity, and hopefully we could learn from each other from each others viewpoints.
Also, apologies if my wording is a bit off. I've been opening up in these debate threads as a way to practice articulating my ideas better, although that information is pretty irrelevant to all of this.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate the apology, though I will like to point out that this isn't actually a debate thread. People made it into one and one side is winning by a landslide while the other side (That made it a debate) is (Or at least was) trying to hold their side of the debate by a very thin string. :v:
[editline]28th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41996213]It is an example of how your reasoning does not make sense. You proposed that simply because we reach the same conclusion in the end on a specific topic, that there is no further course for clarification or discussion of our reasoning behind the conclusion, or our personal feelings toward it. There is no debate without clarification and expansion of arguments.[/QUOTE]
Oh, now I understand what you mean.
Though I don't understand why we need to debate why we agree when we both agree on the logical side of this (Lolicon correlating to a lesser chance of molestations happening, lolicon being 2 dimensional drawings that don't depict real people being harmed, etc). I didn't quite make it clear [I]how[/I] exactly I agree with you, but I thought it was to be inferred in my first post when I ranted about people allowing their emotions to reach their decision in the argument (See Cowabanga's numerous posts to see what I mean).
I worded it very poorly in my first post, and for that I apologise.
[QUOTE=Ern;41996217]
Oh, now I understand what you mean.
Though I don't understand why we need to debate why we agree when we both agree on the logical side of this (Lolicon correlating to a lesser chance of molestations happening, lolicon being 2 dimensional drawings that don't depict real people being harmed, etc). I didn't quite make it clear [I]how[/I] exactly I agree with you, but I thought it was to be inferred in my first post when I ranted about people allowing their emotions to reach their decision in the argument (See Cowabanga's numerous posts to see what I mean).
I worded it very poorly in my first post, and for that I apologise.[/QUOTE]
He should be apologizing to you imo.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41995723]By all means, continue satisfying your disturbing perversions without legal intervention, because your fantasies of sexual deviancy are no crime in themselves, and animes don't have feelings, but don't get to feeling indignant about normal folks raising an eyebrow when you proudly announce that you enjoy working yourself over to toddler-con/beast rape snuff cartoons.[/QUOTE]
Well duh. Quite frankly I'm fine not talking about my rape/loli/milf/trap/clown/freckles/anal fetishes as long as I don't have to listen to other people talking about unsettling parts of their sex life such as their strange fixation with mammary glands or exchanges of saliva in public. We all have to make sacrifices.
[QUOTE=Ern;41996217]I appreciate the apology, though I will like to point out that this isn't actually a debate thread. People made it into one and one side is winning by a landslide while the other side (That made it a debate) is (Or at least was) trying to hold their side of the debate by a very thin string. :v:
[editline]28th August 2013[/editline]
Oh, now I understand what you mean.
Though I don't understand why we need to debate why we agree when we both agree on the logical side of this (Lolicon correlating to a lesser chance of molestations happening, lolicon being 2 dimensional drawings that don't depict real people being harmed, etc). I didn't quite make it clear [I]how[/I] exactly I agree with you, but I thought it was to be inferred in my first post when I ranted about people allowing their emotions to reach their decision in the argument (See Cowabanga's numerous posts to see what I mean).
I worded it very poorly in my first post, and for that I apologise.[/QUOTE]
We're debating because that's the point of a public forum. To share, expand, and defend opinions and perspectives. If all you want is "yes" and "no" on a subject, make a flippin' poll.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41996311]We're debating because that's the point a public forum. To share, expand, and defend opinions and perspectives. If all you want is "yes" and "no" on a subject, make a flippin' poll.[/QUOTE]
[B]Lolicon now illegal in France.[/B]
[X] Yes
[ ] No
Doesn't make much sense to me :v:
But I digress, there's not much for me to say when we both agree that it shouldn't be banned and the reason why.
[QUOTE=Rellow;41995807]It would be somewhat amusing if it were a significant percentage.[/QUOTE]
why would that be amusing?
-snip ocd episode overreacting over intrusive thoughts-
[QUOTE=Reimu;41996659]It's not nearly the same at all - let's be honest, there's no systematic oppression towards pedophiles; in fact, only in the past 100 years has the age of consent been higher than 10 - but there certainly is a huge discriminatory force against anyone who admits they're sexually attracted to someone under the age of consent.
I accidentally flirted with a girl who just turned 14/15 (I'm 19; I thought she was 18), and most of my friends freaked out right away. I stopped flirting and talking to her after that, but that situation really hit home because I have ephebophilic and hebephilic tendencies. It was kind of a watershed moment - what would my friends think of me if I actually came out saying I was sexually deviant? Some of them would drop everything and stop talking to me; people I really care about.
I can't tell anyone that I still have lingering sexual attraction to teens. Albeit, I'm only 19, but [i]no one[/i] would understand what it's like. They don't understand, either, that I have no internal pressure to coerce them into sex; I'm not a fucking rapist, I'm a human being who has a different sexual attraction than other people. There's an internal barrier in my mind - a moral barrier - which automatically prevents me from being sexual around anyone under consent. Because [i][b]I know it's wrong.[/i][/b] And, I'm a strong advocate against sexual harassment and rape; anyone who knows me on a personal level should know that I'm a rad fem ally, I vehemently support consent laws and the right to say "no" to unwanted sex (including the inherent inability to say 'no'), and that I constantly work towards helping LGBTQA & intersectionality groups when possible. But, if I so much as said, "I think that 14 year old is cute," everyone would sound a red alarm as if I were going to lunge at her and rape her. Are all my opinions and work moot if I so much as deviant from the norm? Apparently, yes.
There's certain parts of my life that are blocked off for me because of this, too. I wanted to be a high school teacher, but I'm going to end up spending more money to go into Grad school instead - I just don't want to deal with being around teenagers when I'm older. I'm never going to be fully honest with some friends; only a few can really understand me and respect me. That also means I'm going to be very careful about the people I date in college, because I want to put people in my life who will respect me and listen to me - and that may mean I don't tell them about this.
Granted, I don't think all these social pressures are the same as the ones my LGBTQA friends go through. No, I don't think my pressure is the same at all; I think it's only a fraction, because homophobia is clearly an internalized/institutionalized system of discrimination. But, why are we so willing to turn a blind eye to rape and misogyny in heterosexuality, and raise pitchforks against people like me who do nothing wrong? I'm into vore and macrophilia, too, and people would be much more willing to accept a fetish based around [i]murder[/i] than they would around me thinking a 15 year old is cute.
It's ridiculous. If you don't know me, don't make an assumption about the kind of person I am.
[editline]28th August 2013[/editline]
Also, I say "tendencies" because it's really more like a fetish for me. Not a key part of my life. I spend much more time actually being sexually active with adults than having any ephebophilic or hebephilic thoughts, and it's often pretty rare that I have one to begin with.
But it's there and it's a part of me.[/QUOTE]
You're a good person.
-snip ocd episode overreacting over intrusive thoughts-
[QUOTE=elevate;41996035]Whether you enjoy or don't enjoy lolicon, or whether people are indifferent to or are disgusted by lolicon should not be involved in a decision involving banning lolicon in any way.[/QUOTE]
The question should be whether or not it leads to child molestation and exploitation.
I'm not sure how the question of children consenting is relevant to a ban on drawings/depictions but they can't.
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