[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41997065]The question should be whether or not it leads to child molestation and exploitation.[/QUOTE]
How are you going to stop people conceptualizing the idea mentally? Would that be fueling the desire ultimately for everything you propose to do from looking at porn to any physical involvement in the activity? Banning it would simply be a puppet for an excuse.
It's funny to think that in the beginning of the XX century it was OK for an adult to court a 15 year old- fast forward a hundred years- and you're a criminal for drawing what would be a girl that age. I won't talk about lolicon one way or the other, as I know little about it, I'm just sayin, makes you think.
-snip ocd episode overreacting over intrusive thoughts-
[QUOTE=Reimu;41996659]It's not nearly the same at all - let's be honest, there's no systematic oppression towards pedophiles; in fact, only in the past 100 years has the age of consent been higher than 10 - but there certainly is a huge discriminatory force against anyone who admits they're sexually attracted to someone under the age of consent.
I accidentally flirted with a girl who just turned 14/15 (I'm 19; I thought she was 18), and most of my friends freaked out right away. I stopped flirting and talking to her after that, but that situation really hit home because I have ephebophilic and hebephilic tendencies. It was kind of a watershed moment - what would my friends think of me if I actually came out saying I was sexually deviant? Some of them would drop everything and stop talking to me; people I really care about.
I can't tell anyone that I still have lingering sexual attraction to teens. Albeit, I'm only 19, but [i]no one[/i] would understand what it's like. They don't understand, either, that I have no internal pressure to coerce them into sex; I'm not a fucking rapist, I'm a human being who has a different sexual attraction than other people. There's an internal barrier in my mind - a moral barrier - which automatically prevents me from being sexual around anyone under consent. Because [i][b]I know it's wrong.[/i][/b] And, I'm a strong advocate against sexual harassment and rape; anyone who knows me on a personal level should know that I'm a rad fem ally, I vehemently support consent laws and the right to say "no" to unwanted sex (including the inherent inability to say 'no'), and that I constantly work towards helping LGBTQA & intersectionality groups when possible. But, if I so much as said, "I think that 14 year old is cute," everyone would sound a red alarm as if I were going to lunge at her and rape her. Are all my opinions and work moot if I so much as deviant from the norm? Apparently, yes.
There's certain parts of my life that are blocked off for me because of this, too. I wanted to be a high school teacher, but I'm going to end up spending more money to go into Grad school instead - I just don't want to deal with being around teenagers when I'm older. I'm never going to be fully honest with some friends; only a few can really understand me and respect me. That also means I'm going to be very careful about the people I date in college, because I want to put people in my life who will respect me and listen to me - and that may mean I don't tell them about this.
Granted, I don't think all these social pressures are the same as the ones my LGBTQA friends go through. No, I don't think my pressure is the same at all; I think it's only a fraction, because homophobia is clearly an internalized/institutionalized system of discrimination. But, why are we so willing to turn a blind eye to rape and misogyny in heterosexuality, and raise pitchforks against people like me who do nothing wrong? I'm into vore and macrophilia, too, and people would be much more willing to accept a fetish based around [i]murder[/i] than they would around me thinking a 15 year old is cute.
It's ridiculous. If you don't know me, don't make an assumption about the kind of person I am.
[editline]28th August 2013[/editline]
Also, I say "tendencies" because it's really more like a fetish for me. Not a key part of my life. I spend much more time actually being sexually active with adults than having any ephebophilic or hebephilic thoughts, and it's often pretty rare that I have one to begin with.
But it's there and it's a part of me.[/QUOTE]
really i think the problem is a lack of support for people who think they might have these kinds of urges. if we could just get them the proper opportunities to let loose about their problems before they do anything they might regret rather than being thrown in jail for the other half of their life, i think things would turn out much better
You can't stop me France!
[QUOTE=Primigenes;41996117]What the fuck is an "Animes"[/QUOTE]
Its like an anime but more than one :)
-snipsnip-
[QUOTE=Louis;41997882]Its like an anime but more than one :)[/QUOTE]
the plural of anime is anime :eng101:
[QUOTE=Shosray2;41995474]facepunch justifies pedophilia for what i can conceivably see as two possible reasons.
reason number one being the most obvious considering this is a forum that most people would argue is populated by the "socially awkward", furries, bronies, etc. i understand not all of either of those fandoms embrace the sexual aspect, but most do. many of the people in these fandoms that contribute art contribute pornography which most of the time features teenage/child characters (considering most of the fandom is probably in the 14-19 age range, but for the sake of simplicity on the brony side of the argument you could just say its a show for KIDS) i believe that after a long while of relieving themselves to nothing but pictures of underage rabbits/wolves/ponies/whatever, they've developed this subconscious acceptance that "it's ok" and "it really doesn't hurt anybody and i was born into this sexual preference" both of which are obviously false.
of course you could always just say they're fucked in the head but i guess that would be considered trolling. you can masturbate to your pony and furry pictures all you want but please don't lessen the value of what sexuality which is something somebody is born with, you aren't born a furry or a brony.[/QUOTE]
It's mostly because that same type of rationality can be also applied to other media. For instance, it's perceived as unethical to glorify the deaths of numerous people, yet we strangely play M-rated videogames and view R-rated action films. The reason why people aren't considered sick for enjoying that type of media is because it hardly bears a resemblance to reality; you don't smell the decaying corpses, you don't feel the agonizing broken bones, and you don't see the inability to communicate for years after a stroke.
The same applies to "sick/odd/weird" fetishes as well. Many depictions of sex in fictional media drop bad hygiene, lack of intellect, and numerous other "non-ideal" complexities surrounding it. Which is why people prefer fiction to reality.
tl;dr People don't fully like taboo subject matter, only a few idealized parts from it.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41995723]My favorite part about this thread is that so many of the people who enjoy regularly goin' down Lonely Avenue with lefty, a bottle of vaseline, and their favorite anime girl have thoughtfully adopted anime girl avatars. It allows me to tell at a glance, in most cases, who is about to share with me the many fantastic boons of cartoon renderings of little girls in various stages of sexual duress.
I don't find it all surprising that so many people on this website are so fervently in support of lolicon, but I continue to find it exceptionally unsettling. I don't think there's any reason for it to be illegal, but you should expect some degree of criticism from people nonetheless. No, they're not [I]real[/I] children, but it's the thought and imagery that counts, innit? I'd be just as perturbed if you told me you like cartoon beast porn or cartoon necrophilia.
By all means, continue satisfying your disturbing perversions without legal intervention, because your fantasies of sexual deviancy are no crime in themselves, and animes don't have feelings, but don't get to feeling indignant about normal folks raising an eyebrow when you proudly announce that you enjoy working yourself over to toddler-con/beast rape snuff cartoons.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. Yeah, I think you're a fucking weirdo, but no, it shouldn't be illegal.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41997996] Ignorant individuals with no empirical evidence start crying afoul, even though most scientific research suggests there's a clear difference between pedophilia and molestation.[/QUOTE]
A man who is attracted to women isn't necessarily going to out and rape one if he can't get any and if he does it can't really be his attraction that is to blame. I think the same logic applies. If you become a child molester it should be your character thats to blame.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41995946]Laughin' over here.
You are choosing to openly represent yourself as being interested in young anime girls by adopting young anime girl profile pictures on multiple user platforms, like Facepunch and Steam, and posting pictures of young anime girls on social media sites like Deviant Art or Tumblr or Twitter or whatever the heck else it is we're using to broadcast our interests these days. For you to cry foul for people assuming that you're interested in anime young anime girls based on the knowledge that you advertise yourself as being interested in young anime girls, and compare your "persecution" to racial profiling, is really very silly.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the racial profiling stuff. That's just stupid. In my honest opinion, however, I believe the internet is the place where people can express and be themselves without fear of being mocked in real life. Sure, it's annoying when say, a furry, is vehemently shoving his fetish in my face but at least he's able to express himself. I don't particularly mind all of the anime avatars (obviously), nor do I particularly mind it when people announce their fetish/preference/what have you openly on an internet forum. It still might be a little annoying but to be fair they're not really given a chance to do so in real life.
However, people telling you to stop doesn't warrant you comparing it to real life persecution.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41998689]A man who is attracted to women isn't necessarily going to out and rape one if he can't get any and if he does it can't really be his attraction that is to blame. I think the same logic applies. If you become a child molester it should be your character thats to blame.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, and I think this should be understood in regards to pedophilia.
Personally, I think patriarchal beliefs in rape culture have created internalized notions about who becomes a rapist and why. There seems to be this internalized belief that, in gender roles, men can't "control" their attraction and sexuality in regards to others. Hence the whole "boys will be boys" justification when some harassers/assaulters attack victims.
Consequently, rape culture also creates a cultural mindset where people believe that sexual deviants cannot control their deviant behavior, either. Which is not true at all - BDSMers have a life outside of their mistresses and masters, voreaphiles don't actually want to be devoured alive inside someone's stomach, etc. Sexuality is something that falls on a spectrum, and a moral, ethical, or otherwise disciplined individual can obviously control their sexuality.
I think sociopathic and manipulative child molesters immediately blame pedophilia in order to shift blame away from their actions and onto someone else. That's the equivalent of a rapist saying, "I can't help it that I raped a woman - it's because I'm a heterosexual male! My heterosexuality made me rape those girls."
Well we can see if this actually works out before judging it.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41995723]My favorite part about this thread is that so many of the people who enjoy regularly goin' down Lonely Avenue with lefty, a bottle of vaseline, and their favorite anime girl have thoughtfully adopted anime girl avatars. It allows me to tell at a glance, in most cases, who is about to share with me the many fantastic boons of cartoon renderings of little girls in various stages of sexual duress.
I don't find it all surprising that so many people on this website are so fervently in support of lolicon, but I continue to find it exceptionally unsettling. I don't think there's any reason for it to be illegal, but you should expect some degree of criticism from people nonetheless. No, they're not [I]real[/I] children, but it's the thought and imagery that counts, innit? I'd be just as perturbed if you told me you like cartoon beast porn or cartoon necrophilia.
By all means, continue satisfying your disturbing perversions without legal intervention, because your fantasies of sexual deviancy are no crime in themselves, and animes don't have feelings, but don't get to feeling indignant about normal folks raising an eyebrow when you proudly announce that you enjoy working yourself over to toddler-con/beast rape snuff cartoons.[/QUOTE]
The problem, however, lies in the fact that [b]you're being an asshole[/b] to someone who didn't choose who they are and how they feel about certain things.
Telling someone that they're disgusting because they enjoy lolicon is your [b]right[/b], and by all means you can exercise that, but it's not the way forward for society. Instead of telling someone they're wrong and shaming them (which is [b]not[/b] going to help them), you need to understand that they do not CHOOSE to be attracted to children/animals/whatever. Though you may find the images they masturbate to disgusting, is it [b]really[/b] beneficial to society as a whole to shame them?
Telling someone they're a freak because they are attracted to children will not help them. It will not help you. It will only cause them to grow more depressed, feel more antagonized, and more likely to take their own life.
It's the same thing that happened to homosexuals (and still occurs today).
[QUOTE=geel9;42002738]The problem, however, lies in the fact that [b]you're being an asshole[/b] to someone who didn't choose who they are and how they feel about certain things.
Telling someone that they're disgusting because they enjoy lolicon is your [b]right[/b], and by all means you can exercise that, but it's not the way forward for society. Instead of telling someone they're wrong and shaming them (which is [b]not[/b] going to help them), you need to understand that they do not CHOOSE to be attracted to children/animals/whatever. Though you may find the images they masturbate to disgusting, is it [b]really[/b] beneficial to society as a whole to shame them?
Telling someone they're a freak because they are attracted to children will not help them. It will not help you. It will only cause them to grow more depressed, feel more antagonized, and more likely to take their own life.
It's the same thing that happened to homosexuals (and still occurs today).[/QUOTE]
you've summed up what i wanted to say, all the posts in this thread that are like "don't get me wrong lolicon is fucked up and disgusting but people should be able to do whatever they want" are still implying that there's something wrong with it even though they're okay with it from a legal standpoint. nobody should ever call ANYBODY'S harmless fetish "fucked up", i think all that does is make people feel bad about themselves for something they can't control
[QUOTE=geel9;42002738]It will only cause them to grow more depressed, feel more antagonized, and more likely to take their own life.[/QUOTE]
Furthermore, some of the symptoms of depression are irritability, aggression, reckless behavior, apathy and hopelessness.
I don't know but it seems to me that no matter how much you hate a person or group of persons, you shouldn't want anyone to be depressed; for everybody's sake. Shaming pedophiles and making them feel like they're bad people inherently is probably way more likely to make them do something stupid than letting them have lolicon. [I](afaik, evidence even suggests that letting people have pornography of any kind actually has the opposite effect: more porn = less crime)[/I]
[QUOTE=Robber;41993922]Couldn't you just draw them holding an ID that says they are already 30+? :v:[/QUOTE]
like this? :v:
[IMG]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/orapabs/1201825275471.jpg[/IMG]
Lets ban everything we don't like. That will definitely cut down on its use. It worked so well before.
I don't see anything wrong with making it illegal. It just means people will not boast about possessing CP, which is a pretty bad idea to begin with. I don't think anyone will get perquisitionned over possessing a drawing of a child, unless they start spreading it around and stuff.
The sentences mentionned are always bullshit anyways. Nobody will ever be put in prison for 7 years because of this. They always pretend they'll charge you horrendeous sums of money if you do something illegal, but in they end they end up doing jack shit.
And that's France's juridical system for you. I once got caught spraypainting a wall and they kept me in custody for 15 hours, saying that I was risking months in prison and having thousands of € seized, and once I got released from custody they didn't do shit.
Yeah, I don't think anyone should be scared of that. Doesn't make people who fap to imaginary little girls any less creepy, but I don't think anyone gives a shit about them.
[QUOTE=davidrb18;42009063]I don't see anything wrong with making it illegal. It just means people will not boast about possessing CP, which is a pretty bad idea to begin with. I don't think anyone will get perquisitionned over possessing a drawing of a child, unless they start spreading it around and stuff.
The sentences mentionned are always bullshit anyways. Nobody will ever be put in prison for 7 years because of this. They always pretend they'll charge you horrendeous sums of money if you do something illegal, but in they end they end up doing jack shit.
And that's France's juridical system for you. I once got caught spraypainting a wall and they kept me in custody for 15 hours, saying that I was risking months in prison and having thousands of € seized, and once I got released from custody they didn't do shit.
Yeah, I don't think anyone should be scared of that. Doesn't make people who fap to imaginary little girls any less creepy, but I don't think anyone gives a shit about them.[/QUOTE]
People who aren't horrendous pieces of shit give a shit about people who can't control their own attractions.
The law is there to force people not to hurt each other. Drawings and people masturbating to drawings don't hurt anybody. There's literally no reason to ban this other than "I don't like it", "It makes me uncomfortable" or "It's weird" and being in the majority and/or in power. If you want to follow this logic when creating laws you have a lot of banning to do. From farting through neckbeards through being fat through "bad words" through pretty much most of fetishes through politicians to uwe boll's and adam sandler's movies. And homosexuality depending on the country you're in, because in some places it's not accepted by the majority.
If it doesn't hurt other people it shouldn't be illegal.
[QUOTE=davidrb18;42009063]I don't see anything wrong with making [video games and other media that promotes violence] illegal. It just means people will not boast about [how many hookers they killed today], which is a pretty bad idea to begin with. I don't think anyone will get perquisitionned over possessing [Grand Theft Auto V], unless they start spreading it around and stuff.
Yeah, I don't think anyone should be scared of that. Doesn't make people who [beat up virtual hookers to get their money back] any less creepy, but I don't think anyone gives a shit about them.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Robber;41993922]Couldn't you just draw them holding an ID that says they are already 30+? :v:[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure I saw an image in lmao pics once of a "loli" that threw a drivers license at a cop after catching her and her boyfriend doing it :v:
Also those people bringing up paraphilia, do I have to remind people that homosexuality used to be considered a paraphilia, and I think trans* still is.
[QUOTE=geel9;42009269]People who aren't horrendous pieces of shit give a shit about people who can't control their own attractions.[/QUOTE]
So I'm a horrendous piece of shit for not promoting the act of posessing what is, in my country, considered as child pornography?
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;42009817][IMG]http://1y4o79syc6g4difua2cvof9qco.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/The-Scarecrow-1.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Because I totally beat my meat to GTA. Totally.
I discuss GTA often with friends and no one ever had a problem with that. I've yet to encounter a single individual that has judged me over my choice of video games.
Excuse me for not discussing my fetishes in public with everyone like a complete idiot.
[QUOTE=davidrb18;42011624]So I'm a horrendous piece of shit for not promoting the act of posessing what is, in my country, considered as child pornography?[/QUOTE]
No, you're a horrendous piece of shit for not caring about people who might not be able to control their actions, actions that might have awful consequences.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;42011995]No, you're a horrendous piece of shit for not caring about people who might not be able to control their actions, actions that might have awful consequences.[/QUOTE]
Yes, because I can totally tell who's a pedophile and who isn't. I totally know who's a potential pedophile and how to singlehandedly prevent them from sexually abusing children. You're so self righteous as to go around calling people horrendeous piece of shit, that you didn't even ask yourself what it would matter if I cared about pedophilia.
Do I have to care about pedophilia when I barely see a kid, let alone a pedophile on a weekly basis? It's like you're asking me to either care about something that's totally stranger to me, or consider myself a horrendeous piece of shit. I'll pass, and I think I'll leave this to the authorities of my country, who can actually look into pedo-pornography (be it actual or fictional pornography) so I don't have to care about it myself.
If you're going to consider every person who doesn't bother with pedophilia and leaves it to someone who knows their job a horrendous piece of shit, I'm wondering : who exactly isn't a horrendous piece of shit to you?
Why are you discussing this if you don't care?
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;42012354]Why are you discussing this if you don't care?[/QUOTE]
I really just came here to say that laws are applied loosely in france, and that while the punishment for something so petty seems pentagruelic, I don't believe that people will be jailed for too long and/or have thousands seized from them over it. That was my point, and I thought that giving my experience with law enforcement in France might contribute something to the thread, nothing else.
[QUOTE=davidrb18;42011624]
Because I totally beat my meat to GTA. Totally.
[/QUOTE]
I for one do find beating hookers to be sexually arousing.
[editline]30th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=davidrb18;42012576]I really just came here to say that laws are applied loosely in france, and that while the punishment for something so petty seems pentagruelic, I don't believe that people will be jailed for too long and/or have thousands seized from them over it. That was my point, and I thought that giving my experience with law enforcement in France might contribute something to the thread, nothing else.[/QUOTE]
Because being arrested for child pornography and being arrested for petty vandalism are pretty much the same thing as far as the courts are concerned, right? I mean since they didn't make a big deal about you writing naughty words in an alley or something, there's no way they're gonna bother enforcing their child pornography laws!
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