[QUOTE=LuaChobo;41984431]
fact is, even with this very small group of very outspoken people the majority of people in government will brush it off since its almost directly related (it is, its underage girls but one is drawn one is real, its fucking related) to an actual incredibly illegal and disgusting crime.
[/QUOTE]
We're not attempting to repeal a French law through a thread on facepunch, just showing how silly your kind of view on the subject is.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;41984502]y
sure it's not going to change, because its utterly unenforceable[/QUOTE]
The internet is a wonderful thing.
Wow, didn't know that facepunch is full of pedophiles.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("why reply?" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;41984431]yes that was my point finally someone sees it!
you have proven yourself a saint and scholar *tips fedora*[/QUOTE]
i'm not really sure what you're going on about here
you say that this fictional depiction of child porn should be banned because it could lead to people looking into real child porn or even molest a child
but a fictional depiction of, let's say, murder, is totally fine?
[QUOTE=Recco;41984534]Wow, didn't know that facepunch is full of pedophiles.[/QUOTE]
We are also violent psychopaths who murder people.
Video games and movies made me do it.
[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;41984514]Like any other kind of porn, it's illegal (in the US at least, no idea about elsewhere in the world) to have it posted on a site or sold in a store without an 18+ warning or age gate to make sure that they're legal to view it, exactly.[/QUOTE]
So that's already a higher restriction than video games where the player kills people (at least in the US, Australian classification issues AFAIK are even more strict). But murder's okay to depict, presumably.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;41984540]It's like saying violent movies cause violent crime, that is not the case, but with people that have an existing problem it can add to it, denying that means you are arguing for the sake of arguing.[/QUOTE]
Yet violent video games aren't illegal.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;41984513]What about guro, necrophilia, rape, bestiality hentai? Why didn't they also make it illegal, if they know about the existence of this types of Japanese drawn porn, they should also have knowledge about such things?[/QUOTE]
Oddly enough, we also know all of those are also not inherently linked to action in real life.
One of my friends is a rape survivor with a rape fetish; that doesn't mean she actually wants to experience sexual assault again in real life.
My friend who draws shotacon likes guro; that doesn't mean she wants to dismember others in real life.
That said, I also knew someone who had sex with her dogs and enjoyed bestiality porn. But the porn involved had nothing to do with it.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;41984540]I dated a guy a few years ago and he was pretty into the whole japan thing, we broke up because he got really into loli art (as in not porn shit) which i was fine with, but then he ended up jacking it to it.
He was arrested recently after his parents caught him molesting his sister.
I can tell you from experience, he was a nice guy at first and without that influence he still may have had the urges, but anything can cause someone to do dumb/illegal shit.
It's like saying violent movies cause violent crime, that is not the case, but with people that have an existing problem it can add to it, denying that means you are arguing for the sake of arguing.[/QUOTE]
"I had one bad experience so everybody ever who does this is exactly the same."
This is going to be really hard for the France government to enforce.
In Singapore there's a law that states that all porn (Real / Drawn) are illegal. They hardly enforce it because it's so widespread and hard to detect. ([URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/05/23/us-singapore-internet-odd-idUSS2322899620080523"]They do block certain highly popular porn sites though[/URL])
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;41984540]I can tell you from experience, he was a nice guy at first and without that influence he still may have had the urges, but anything can cause someone to do dumb/illegal shit.
It's like saying violent movies cause violent crime, that is not the case, but with people that have an existing problem it can add to it, denying that means you are arguing for the sake of arguing.[/QUOTE]
Then what about porn about rape? Even if it's acted, or drawn, or otherwise fake, do you believe this influences people to rape? I somehow doubt that your friend was convinced to molest his sister because he was jacking off to lolicon.
[QUOTE=Megafan;41984504]I feel pretty certain this kind of material (when it's even sold in stores) is branded 'for adults only' or something similar. That's the same sort of rating as the very highest video game classification, so I don't really see the issue.[/QUOTE]
I don't necessarily mean ratings, I'm just saying that we don't just allow and encourage violent video games to be freely available for everyone - we understand it can have some impact. I don't think lolicon should be made illegal, since a law like this would be next to impossible to define reasonably, but I think it should be discouraged and treated as a potential sign that someone should be given help. I think public awareness should be the focus instead of banning this sort of thing.
[QUOTE=ATRanko;41984557]This is going to be really hard for the France government to enforce.
In Singapore there's a law that states that all porn (Real / Drawn) are illegal. They hardly enforce it because it's so widespread and hard to detect. ([URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/05/23/us-singapore-internet-odd-idUSS2322899620080523"]They do block certain highly popular porn sites though[/URL])[/QUOTE]
The only reason child porn is easy to enforce is because it's illegal worldwide, and even then, there are still plenty of places where people post it constantly. If something's legal anywhere in the world then it's really easy to find on the internet.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;41984540]I dated a guy a few years ago and he was pretty into the whole japan thing, we broke up because he got really into loli art (as in not porn shit) which i was fine with, but then he ended up jacking it to it.
He was arrested recently after his parents caught him molesting his sister.
I can tell you from experience, he was a nice guy at first and without that influence he still may have had the urges, but anything can cause someone to do dumb/illegal shit.
It's like saying violent movies cause violent crime, that is not the case, but with people that have an existing problem it can add to it, denying that means you are arguing for the sake of arguing.[/QUOTE]
So we ban violent movies and games then?
[QUOTE=kidkiller745;41984598]So we ban violent movies and games then?[/QUOTE]
Ban everything just to be safe.
We wouldn't want peoples minds being corrupted by imagination.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;41984540]I dated a guy a few years ago and he was pretty into the whole japan thing, we broke up because he got really into loli art (as in not porn shit) which i was fine with, but then he ended up jacking it to it.
He was arrested recently after his parents caught him molesting his sister.
I can tell you from experience, he was a nice guy at first and without that influence he still may have had the urges, but anything can cause someone to do dumb/illegal shit.
It's like saying violent movies cause violent crime, that is not the case, but with people that have an existing problem it can add to it, denying that means you are arguing for the sake of arguing.[/QUOTE]
That's very awful, and that's a clear example of someone who is willing to hurt others in order to satisfy themselves.
But it's also important to remember that, at the end of the day, a pedophile who molests a child or breaks consent laws have a different moral understanding than the majority of pedophiles who do not. One of my tumblr friends exclusively dates men older than 18 (she just turned 15), and all of her relationships are sexually active. The men she dated inherently treated the issue as a grey area, in order to justify breaking consent laws and having sex with her. They could be arrested and labeled sex offenders, but they justified their actions by believing there was nothing wrong with hiding a relationship with a 14 year old.
Looking at lolicon doesn't inherently make someone an abuser. There has to be a faulty moral understanding in the first place, which either actively condones molestation/non-consensual sex, or is willing to make a psychological justification for immoral action.
We should be focusing on why that moral justification for sadistic/non-legally consensual pleasure happens. Why there are some people willing to assault others or violate consent laws for their own enjoyment. But sadism is s an issue that happens across people, and is not inherently related to sexual paraphilia.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;41984540]I dated a guy a few years ago and he was pretty into the whole japan thing, we broke up because he got really into loli art (as in not porn shit) which i was fine with, but then he ended up jacking it to it.
He was arrested recently after his parents caught him molesting his sister.
I can tell you from experience, he was a nice guy at first and without that influence he still may have had the urges, but anything can cause someone to do dumb/illegal shit.
It's like saying violent movies cause violent crime, that is not the case, but with people that have an existing problem it can add to it, denying that means you are arguing for the sake of arguing.[/QUOTE]
If there was a magical indicator that 100% accurately showed in advance who were going to molest kids and who wouldn't, we could surely use it to find and provide treatment to child molesters. No such indicator exists however, lolicon addiction isn't one. Thinking otherwise could have devastating implications on liberty.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;41984575]I'm sorry but that guy was going to molest a kid even if lolicon didn't exist.[/QUOTE]
Maybe lolicon triggered that in him.
Who knows.
[QUOTE=Combine 177;41984640]Maybe lolicon triggered that in him.
Who knows.[/QUOTE]
Nope, pedophilic sexuality often comes about during puberty and is very clear.
Pedophiles feel the same way around children that hetero men feel around attractive women. They bubble inside and become a little turned on.
That said, he could have deluded himself until he started enjoying lolicon. But it's not like something that magically pops up when you're looking at loli on gelbooru.
[QUOTE=Combine 177;41984640]Maybe lolicon triggered that in him.
Who knows.[/QUOTE]
Well Lua certainly can't prove it one way or the other.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;41984540]I dated a guy a few years ago and he was pretty into the whole japan thing, we broke up because he got really into loli art (as in not porn shit) which i was fine with, but then he ended up jacking it to it.
He was arrested recently after his parents caught him molesting his sister.
I can tell you from experience, he was a nice guy at first and without that influence he still may have had the urges, but anything can cause someone to do dumb/illegal shit.
It's like saying violent movies cause violent crime, that is not the case, but with people that have an existing problem it can add to it, denying that means you are arguing for the sake of arguing.[/QUOTE]
Well, that must've been a shitty situation, I'm sorry you went through that. But this is purely anecdotal, and you can't know what was going on in his head. He might've molested his sister earlier if he wasn't involved in that loli shit. Or the other way around, also entirely possible.
When I was talking about evidence, I meant scientific evidence. The only studies I've heard about (on this subject) was the one mentioned in the first pages of this thread :
[QUOTE=Simski;41983850]Wasn't there a study recently that pretty much showed that legal lolicon/shota helped prevent pedophiles from going after real CP instead?[/QUOTE]
[del]Unfortunately there hasn't been a source mentioned on that, so that's not really valid either.[/del] Simski found it, check couple posts below
But do you think it's a good idea to create laws that forbids things, without anyone knowing what the effect of that would be?
[QUOTE=Combine 177;41984640]Maybe lolicon triggered that in him.
Who knows.[/QUOTE]
Maybe eating a certain flavor iceceeam triggered that in him, we will never know for sure
This is fucking great news, now the rest of the world just needs to do the same thing :D
Didn't expect this at all.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;41984713]This is fucking great news, now the rest of the world just needs to do the same thing :D[/QUOTE]
You haven't paid attention to this thread at all.
[QUOTE=Simski;41984702]Maybe eating a certain flavor iceceeam triggered that in him, we will never know for sure[/QUOTE]
loli-flavored ice cream
"You are my special sensei" edition
I have a few friends that tend to "enjoy" lolicon, looks like the thug life has chosen them now.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41984750]loli-flavored ice cream
"You are my special sensei" edition[/QUOTE]
Also comes in "Onii-chan, what are you doing" flavor.
[QUOTE=judgeofdeath;41984684]Unfortunately there hasn't been a source mentioned on that, so that's not really valid either.
But do you think it's a good idea to create laws that forbids things, without anyone knowing what the effect of that would be?[/QUOTE]
I found it
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1163134&[/url]
william routledge is lucky he doesnt live in france
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