• 'California Will Launch Its Own Damn Satellites,' Governor Brown Tells Trump
    104 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Dr.C;51541173]I'm a Californian living in Silicon Valley and I think California leaving the union is a bad idea. California should instead try to lead by example to show the rest of the country why our way of doing things works(even though traffic is ass, the homeless plague our major cities, bad neighborhoods aren't fixed, they just move to a different city, and it's expensive as fuck to live here) and it can work for them too if they follow our lead.[/QUOTE] Same living situation, same sentiment. The only thing Cali seceding would do is turn it into a third world country until the US returns it to the nation at large by force.
California leaving will give precedent for Texas to leave. You'll neuter the United States and hand world supremacy to Russia and China.
so hypocritical, if it would be another country, most of you would be supporting the secession. but when it's in your own country you all turn into the biggest fascists ever, touting force as a legitimate way to keep a nation withing your country from seceding. that's so weird
[QUOTE=OvB;51541227]California leaving will give precedent for Texas to leave. You'll neuter the United States and hand world supremacy to Russia and China.[/QUOTE] At least china actually believes in climate change.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51541233]At least china actually believes in climate change.[/QUOTE] So does the United States. The president is not a dictator.
[QUOTE=OvB;51541246]So does the United States. The president is not a dictator.[/QUOTE] You mean the President, House, Senate, and soon to be republican supreme court? They'll never vote for climate change laws. Itll take decades for us to recover from this farce as a united state.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51541233]At least china actually believes in climate change.[/QUOTE] My god, I hate that people think like this. It's good they're doing that, but being ok with a government that still works people to death in labor camps is fucking disgusting to me, especially more so as a Californian knowing you're in this state calling for it's secession from the only fucking entity that can ensure our prosperity and security.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51541271]Well, to be honest, there are still the states, and the private corporations and individuals who all possess some sort of power. The Federal Government may be the ultimate policy makers, but they arent all-mighty.[/QUOTE] Majority of both state congresses and governors are also republican.
If Climate change progress is what you want, balkanizing the strongest Union on earth isn't going to get you that. The Republican dream majority will be gone in 2 years.
[QUOTE=OvB;51541277]If Climate change progress is what you want, balkanizing the strongest Union on earth isn't going to get you that. The Republican dream majority will be gone in 2 years.[/QUOTE] But the damage will last another 10 at the least, and if a democrat gains majority in that extent of time, this will happen again. We recovered under obama, but he's hated by the right and they gained majority by demonizing him and his policies. [editline]17th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;51541274]My god, I hate that people think like this. It's good they're doing that, but being ok with a government that still works people to death in labor camps is fucking disgusting to me, especially more so as a Californian knowing you're in this state calling for it's secession from the only fucking entity that can ensure our prosperity and security.[/QUOTE] If we can't have a discussion about this topic without jumping to immediate conclusions, then of course it will never happen. There's ways that it can happen, not to say it will.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51541286]If we can't have a discussion about this topic without jumping to immediate conclusions, then of course it will never happen. There's ways that it can happen, not to say it will.[/QUOTE] Ignoring the fact you're the one who alluded to secession as a desirable prospect, what conclusion do you want me to make? Other than it's fucking stupid, and would not only hurt us beyond repair, but create a new entity that has an even greater chance than our current government of being manipulated by foreign powers. There's no positives to secession.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51541258]You mean the President, House, Senate, and soon to be republican supreme court? They'll never vote for climate change laws. Itll take decades for us to recover from this farce as a united state.[/QUOTE] Along with a fair amount of citizens
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;51541316]Ignoring the fact you're the one who alluded to secession as a desirable prospect, what conclusion do you want me to make? Other than it's fucking stupid, and would not only hurt us beyond repair, but create a new entity that has an even greater chance than our current government of being manipulated by foreign powers. There's no positives to secession.[/QUOTE] We get to choose our own laws; Control our own borders; Elect our own president; Control our own enviroment; Control our own trade; Control our own minimum wage Control our own gun rights; Control our own civil rights; Tax our nation fairly because we pay more to the fed than any other state and get back less than we pay; There's a lot of reasons, too numerous to even list here.
I honestly can't believe we're still at a point where people are desperately clinging onto the idea of California seceding, which, btw, is some poorly thought out bit of background writing in some shitty dystopian YA novel and not a legitimate, realistic prospect that has any chance of happening in the real world. Pure fantasy.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;51541333]I honestly can't believe we're still at a point where people are desperately clinging onto the idea of California seceding, which, btw, is some poorly thought out bit of background writing in some shitty dystopian YA novel and not a legitimate, realistic prospect that has any chance of happening in the real world. Pure fantasy.[/QUOTE] The same was said about the thirteen colonies before leaving the British empire as well.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51541340]The same was said about the thirteen colonies before leaving the British empire as well.[/QUOTE] So are you saying that not only is California seceding likely, them getting slaughtered by a hostile re-takeover by the American government is also likely? Because that's what's going to happen if you breach the pure fiction bubble of seceding and actually do it. America is not going to let that happen. This isn't the 1700's.
[QUOTE=OvB;51541227]You'll neuter the United States and hand world supremacy to Russia and China.[/QUOTE] At the rate things are going, America is gonna hand out world supremacy one way or the other, Trump in office or not
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51541325]We get to choose our own laws; Control our own borders; Elect our own president; Control our own enviroment; Control our own trade; Control our own minimum wage Control our own gun rights; Control our own civil rights; Tax our nation fairly because we pay more to the fed than any other state and get back less than we pay; There's a lot of reasons, too numerous to even list here.[/QUOTE] If I'm not mistaken, California already does all of that as a state.
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;51541140]why americans thinks all other nationhood aspiring people on the planet should have a right to self-determination, but Californians doesn't? it's not a matter of national law, it's basic international law. that doesn't mean the country will get recognized by the US or any country that are allied to it. that doesn't mean the US won't try to reannex it by force. you just can't restrict those kinds of rights by writing up a law. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination[/URL][/QUOTE] Because California isn't a fucking nation. A nation is defined by wikipedia, is "A nation (from Latin: natio, "people, tribe, kin, genus, class, flock") is a large group or collective of people with common characteristics attributed to them — including language, traditions, mores (customs), habitus (habits), and ethnicity. By comparison, a nation is more impersonal, abstract, and overtly political than an ethnic group." - Californians by this are not in any shape way or form separate from other Americans in the country. They have no right to self determination anymore than an individual county in the United States has a right to secede from the country.
California can secede. It's not fantasy, it's not "legal", it's not going to be good. But they can secede. Denying they have the ability to is just as blatantly ignorant as the people thinking it'll do any good. As unlikely as it is, there's a very real possibility you'll wake up one day to the headline that California seceded and that Trump is mobilizing the US Armed Forces to take it back. They voted for [I]background checks on ammunition[/I] and to make crimes like [i]the rape of an unconscious woman non-violent misdemeanors,[/i] it is not outside the realm of possibility that they will vote to secede. California is one of the most progressive states in the nation. It was wonderful for a while, but now it is rampantly out of control. People here vote to feel safe instead of being safe. People here vote to feel progressive instead of being productive. That's how it is.
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;51541229]so hypocritical, if it would be another country, most of you would be supporting the secession. but when it's in your own country you all turn into the biggest fascists ever, touting force as a legitimate way to keep a nation withing your country from seceding. that's so weird[/QUOTE] I'm a Californian and I want all this talk of California leaving the Union to fuck right off. These people do not represent the majority of us; it's mostly a bunch of millennials wetting the bed over the election. And no, California cannot succeed. The Civil War set the legal precedent that no state can. We can say we succeed, but that doesn't make it official.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51541394]California can secede. It's not fantasy, it's not "legal", it's not going to be good. But they can secede. Denying they have the ability to is just as blatantly ignorant as the people thinking it'll do any good. As unlikely as it is, there's a very real possibility you'll wake up one day to the headline that California seceded and that Trump is mobilizing the US Armed Forces to take it back. They voted for [I]background checks on ammunition[/I] and to make crimes like [i]the rape of an unconscious woman non-violent misdemeanors,[/i] it is not outside the realm of possibility that they will vote to secede.[/QUOTE] If we have to mobilize the military to prevent a state from seceding, I will eagerly enlist. I will take no joy in fighting my countrymen, but I will do my part to keep my country from falling into pieces.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51541407]If we have to mobilize the military to prevent a state from seceding, I will eagerly enlist. I will take no joy in fighting my countrymen, but I will do my part to keep my country from falling into pieces.[/QUOTE] And you will be remembered as the Union was in the civil war, and I will deeply respect you for doing it, because you are in the right. But the Civil War wasn't fought over the Confederacy [I]threatening[/I] to secede, it was fought over the Confederacy [I]seceding.[/I] I'm making my argument so people don't discount it as impossible. A lot of people thought Trump would never be president. It's impossible. He's a spray-tan cheeto with a wig talking whatever sensationalist bullshit he can to inflame the most people whilst planning his presidency around being the most profitable business venture he's made yet. He can't be president, it's fantasy. And yet, he will be. No amount of kicking and screaming and "[B]but you[I]can't![/I][/B]" can stop California from cutting ties with the federal government and enacting secession, recognized by the US or not. Authority is granted, not taken, and in leaving the US, whatever federal precedents say it can't is nulled.
34% of Californians voted for Trump, which people keep forgetting. Assuming that 100% of those voters will not want to secede, then add on a large portion of the population that won't want to secede because of the obvious risks and problems it will cause, I sincerely doubt California will every even try to leave the country.
I'm with you there. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I hear real estate in Oregon is still serviceably affordable.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51541415] No amount of kicking and screaming and "[B]but you[I]can't![/I][/B]" can stop California from cutting ties with the federal government and enacting secession, recognized by the US or not. Authority is granted, not taken, and in leaving the US, whatever federal precedents say it can't is nulled.[/QUOTE] I'm just so confused here. They can say they're seceding, but America won't allow them. It's as simple as that, right? Any attempt to put forth any meaningful policies or laws will just be met with America saying "lolno", right? You can kick and scream about how you want to secede but without an army or any other basic building blocks of a nation, it's not happening.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;51541396]I'm a Californian and I want all this talk of California leaving the Union to fuck right off. These people do not represent the majority of us; it's mostly a bunch of millennials wetting the bed over the election. And no, California cannot succeed. The Civil War set the legal precedent that no state can. We can say we succeed, but that doesn't make it official.[/QUOTE] a war doesn't set legal precedent, it has got nothing to do with US law. what it does is tell the states that they are bound by coercion of force if it has to go there. two really different things. in my opinion it tarnishes your reputation as ''leaders of the free world''.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;51541453]I'm just so confused here. They can say they're seceding, but America won't allow them. It's as simple as that, right? Any attempt to put forth any meaningful policies or laws will just be met with America saying "lolno", right? You can kick and scream about how you want to secede but without an army or any other basic building blocks of a nation, it's not happening.[/QUOTE] they can secede all they want, and the US can decide to ignore the declaration if they want just like the Ukraine can claim that they still own Crimea, but if you can't defend it you don't own it.
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;51541455]a war doesn't set legal precedent, it has got nothing to do with US law. what it does is tell the states that they are bound by coercion of force if it has to go there. two really different things. in my opinion it tarnishes your reputation as ''leaders of the free world''.[/QUOTE] Uh, yes it does set a precedent? Maybe not in [I]your[/I] country but [I]in the US[/I] it does. You can pull that "leaders of the free world is a paradox" but giving anyone anything because they demand it is not the definition of freedom. California is not a nation separate or distinct from the rest of the US. They have no legal right nor an international right to self determination.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51541325]We get to choose our own laws; Control our own borders; Elect our own president; Control our own enviroment; Control our own trade; Control our own minimum wage Control our own gun rights; Control our own civil rights; Tax our nation fairly because we pay more to the fed than any other state and get back less than we pay; There's a lot of reasons, too numerous to even list here.[/QUOTE] hey man, united we stand, divided we fall.
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