• Michael Bloomberg: Liberals turning universities into intolerant citidels of modern McCarthyism
    53 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;44953179]If you want the freedom to say whatever you want on campus then guess what - "SJW"s get that freedom too. Deal with it.[/QUOTE] Of course they do, and I wouldn't argue against anyone's freedom of speech. I'm merely echoing the sentiments of quite a few people who feel that the folks who share this brand of politics make it very difficult to actually be able to voice any opinion but their own. Left or Right - it just so happens that in my case, it's the left-leaning people.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;44953978] Similar thing happened in psychology class. A kid was talking about how his parents brought themselves up in society without any government help, and another time how he said that being gay was a choice. Teacher shut him right down by stating counter-points and providing evidence [/QUOTE] I never get these people. Why on earth would you choose to be part of a group with statistically greatly increased suicide rates?
[QUOTE=AtomicWaffle;44952418]*biggass text*[/QUOTE] It's almost like smarter people tend to be more open about stuff, holy shit.
[QUOTE=AtomicWaffle;44952418] At least where my University (U of T) is concerned, there are a fuckton of junior-grade Marxists who've just read Foucault and feel that they understand the world better than everyone else. They accept a lot of these statements on how the world "is" by using fancy faux-academic vocabulary and thought policing just about fucking everything. Here it's not even really RadFems and the 105th Socks and Sandals Brigade (MRAs), but the almost toxic levels of radical leftism of virtually every stripe. Sure, our Economics and Law students can be pretty annoying radically right-leaning libertarians, but they have nowhere near the level of influence or voice on campus. .[/QUOTE] I'm at UofT. There are marxists here? I've never met one, and I've been here for 4 years. Literally nobody I know describes themselves as a communist, I'm one of the most left-wing people I know. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] The radfems are a joke, yes they're stupid for protesting a feminists lecture because he decided to talk about male issues, but not even close to everyone here is an extremist feminist. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] [quote] Also, with all of this said I am going to a Canadian university, so the makeup of students' political leanings is probably a good stretch different than most american schools; and certainly the culture of left vs right is a good bit different here. [/quote] Yeah that's true, we are more left leaning than the states, but most people barely care about politics and very few are overtly communists. I've met more libertarians at UofT than communists.
[QUOTE=SaxonV2;44952225]I love it personally Its like the one place in real life where you can make a conservative feel stupid about some of uneducated ideas they have.[/QUOTE] And vice versa. Both parties are fucking stupid, I just try to pick the one that sounds less wrong.
Universities aren't too bad I suppose. They allow Christian preachers to stand around them if I recall. [editline]31st May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44954533]I've met more libertarians at UofT than communists.[/QUOTE] Generally most libertarians you find on campuses are the same sort of people who distribute free Ayn Rand books, and the Communists are the ones selling newspapers.
I found it hilarious one day at university I looked at a noticeboard, and right in the middle of an ad (as in, blocking all the text on the ad) for the Socialist Alliance someone had put an ad offering tutoring in Finance. Just that juxtaposition made my day. There are actually heaps of ads for socialist groups at my university, they pretty much make up half of the ads with the largest-other group of ads being for bible sessions. Never actually met any socialists though, after all I'm mostly in the Business and Law School faculties at my university.
Ugh, I'd be pretty pissed if I spent $200,000 on four years at Harvard only to be forced to sit there and listen to a billionaire blowhard bitch and moan about how hostile and elitist we all are toward conservatives and their stupid, ignorant opinions.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44955853]Ugh, I'd be pretty pissed if I spent $200,000 on four years at Harvard only to be forced to sit there and listen to a billionaire blowhard bitch and moan about how hostile and elitist we all are toward conservatives and their stupid, ignorant opinions.[/QUOTE] Ironically, that's a pretty ignorant opinion tbh.
[QUOTE=Splash Attack;44952419]Sounds a lot like conservatives to me.[/QUOTE] In my personal experience a shit load of conservatives tend to do this. They project their own shortcomings on those that they oppose. I've come across a lot of people in general who tend to be completely closed to criticism and then do this same thing.
Perhaps it has something to do with the academic defensibility of conservative viewpoints rather than some vast conspiracy.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;44956473]Perhaps it has something to do with the academic defensibility of conservative viewpoints rather than some vast conspiracy.[/QUOTE] fiscal conservatism is something that is both defensible and worth discussion. you're right about social conservatism, though; the movement relies mostly upon strict adherence to antiquated belief systems traditionally opposed to scientific thought.
[QUOTE=joes33431;44956734]fiscal conservatism is something that is both defensible and worth discussion. you're right about social conservatism, though; the movement relies mostly upon strict adherence to antiquated belief systems traditionally opposed to scientific thought.[/QUOTE] on the other hand, science has no allegiance to progressivism any ideology which claims to be "scientific" or says "science supports us" or "we support science" is usually bullshitting and shouldn't be trusted
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;44952201]What? Why should no one be able to make judgments about your opinions at college? Which is not even to mention it's not like the police commissioner is a student in a classroom.[/QUOTE] For me the key words in what Bloomberg said were "shunned and shouted down." No one's saying there can't be a healthy conversation or debate, but the problem is in the case where a person speaking is instead drowned out. The people who shouted down the commissioner at Brown ought to be ashamed of themselves. Shouting down someone who is speaking is absolutely unacceptable. No exceptions. If someone is saying something you know is wrong, you show why they are wrong once they have said their piece. You do [B]not[/B] prevent them from speaking outright, it only serves to make you look ignorant and afraid to have your views challenged.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44952323]It tells you that Ivy League schools engage is rampart left-wing McCarthyism, because 96% of the people coming from some of the top schools in the world are obviously too stupid to know better.[/QUOTE] Yeah, all those well educated people in 1930's Germany sure knew what policies were best! (Hint: high levels of education have nothing to do with moral policy making)
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44953687]Certainly more civilized than what others have suggested, which is banning "hate" speech altogether. Some people would have them not speak at all.[/QUOTE] Hate speech that purposely incites discrimination beyond the speech itself shouldn't be legal and isn't what we're discussing here
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;44952840]After that, when people leave the college experience, and into a full time job, people tend to quickly fall into the republican/democrat. It's just part of growing up.[/QUOTE] Too bad that'll be the death of us.
Amen, Brother Bloomberg. It's about time one of our own has finally brought to light the immense disparity on college campuses. Seriously, it's like it's suddenly a bad thing to be driven more by improving your own standing rather than other people's that you don't know or care about. It seems like a more leftist (however subtle) development is engrained in higher education to the point that it's the expected norm to follow that mold. Of course, anyone of that wing of the political ideology spectrum is going to defend it and ridicule the other side. It's just that the liberal side is usually larger considering a bigger portion of professors are liberal and influence students that way. I think that's what he's getting at. There isn't much stretching room on campuses anymore to express different political ideologies without an inherent prejudice against it. In a lot of ways, it's becoming more and more of a circlejerk. Not that it wouldn't happen the other day, but still, it's getting a bit excessive at this point. Maybe it doesn't happen at these private, big-wig, Ivy League schools, but in it's pretty likely to happen in most public universities that are near significant populations.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;44957337]Hate speech that purposely incites discrimination beyond the speech itself shouldn't be legal and isn't what we're discussing here[/QUOTE] IIRC in US law any speech intended to and is likely to get other people to break the law is illegal. It's called the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action"]imminent lawless action[/URL] test, where free speech ends if the speaker intends to incite a violation of the law that is both imminent and likely.
[QUOTE] liberal fascism[/QUOTE] I thought liberals were communists though, according to republicans. You can't be a fascist communist, make up your fucking mind.
If you asked people who say stuff like that to explain communism or fascism they probably couldn't. I think people can safely ignore them.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;44957884]If you asked people who say stuff like that to explain communism or fascism they probably couldn't. I think people can safely ignore them.[/QUOTE] I think you're just being a fascist and trying to put US non communists down!!!!
I feel like this would depend heavily on where the college is located. At my uni there was a fair share of both liberalism and conservatism.
I don't care about people expressing their opinions, what bothers me is when people actively try to stop others from voicing their opinions through tactics such as shouting over them constantly so that they can't be heard. To give you an example of what I mean: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7cwWegXCU[/media] Let's examine this video. Instead of letting them speak, then noting their points and either; questioning them on the spot if they begin taking questions or taking what they have said and arranging to have your own conference or at the very least finding a way to publicise your criticisms of what is being said. What actually happens is they just chant loudly so that the conference can't go anywhere. I think the right to free speech should also come with the expectation that you are able to listen. I don't like suppressing free speech, even if you think what is being said is fucking stupid (regardless of whether it is stupid or you just think so). I have always been of the opinion that if you disagree with an argument, the best counter to it is to let it be spoken, then defeat it with your own counter-argument.
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