• E3 Audience Offended By "Rape Joke" At Microsoft Xbox One Event
    325 replies, posted
The audience laughed, how are they not offended? :p
[QUOTE=benos28;41000521]The audience laughed, how are they not offended? :p[/QUOTE] I was laughing at the guy. "HAHA did he actually just say that? Oh boy this really is E3."
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41000158]The whole console is a rape joke[/QUOTE] You're a rape joke. Kidding
If you interpreted this as a rape joke you're a fucking idiot plain and simple.
[QUOTE=Frozen_Fish;41001196]If you interpreted this as a rape joke you're a fucking idiot plain and simple.[/QUOTE] calling a rape victim an idiot classy as fuck
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;41001212]calling a rape victim an idiot classy as fuck[/QUOTE] suddenly the E3 audience and most of the people on twitter, tumblr, several on facepunch, are all rape victims.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;41001212]calling a rape victim an idiot classy as fuck[/QUOTE] i didn't know they brought back the mandatory gropings at e3 this year
Jesus fucking Christ. Are any of you even rape victims? Do you know how triggering this joke is to someone who has actually been raped? Not to mention how disrespectful it is to this poor Microsoft employee, who was humiliated on stage in front of millions. Stop telling people to "calm down, it's just a joke" when you don't know how it feels to have your world visciously ripped apart by a sexual assault. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] Also - of course this is a rape joke. "Don't worry this will be over soon?" That's a stereotypical line virtually associated with rape culture & sexual assualts.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41001494]Jesus fucking Christ. Are any of you even rape victims? Do you know how triggering this joke is to someone who has actually been raped? Not to mention how disrespectful it is to this poor Microsoft employee, who was humiliated on stage in front of millions. Stop telling people to "calm down, it's just a joke" when you don't know how it feels to have your world visciously ripped apart by a sexual assault. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] Also - of course this is a rape joke. "Don't worry this will be over soon?" That's a stereotypical line virtually associated with rape culture & sexual assualts.[/QUOTE] No it isn't and just because someone can be triggered over something someone said that wasn't mean in that way doesn't mean no one can ever say it.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41001494]Jesus fucking Christ. Are any of you even rape victims? Do you know how triggering this joke is to someone who has actually been raped? Not to mention how disrespectful it is to this poor Microsoft employee, who was humiliated on stage in front of millions. Stop telling people to "calm down, it's just a joke" when you don't know how it feels to have your world visciously ripped apart by a sexual assault. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] Also - of course this is a rape joke. "Don't worry this will be over soon?" That's a stereotypical line virtually associated with rape culture & sexual assualts.[/QUOTE] Friendly warning, sarcasm doesn't translate well through text, a lot of people are going to think this post is serious. :wink:
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;41001624]No it isn't and just because someone can be triggered over something someone said that wasn't mean in that way doesn't mean no one can ever say it.[/QUOTE] I don't think microchips should be implanted in every person at birth so it stops them from uttering the phrase "it will be over soon", but maybe at a hugely popular press conference maybe re-think your trash talking. Context matters. [QUOTE=Frozen_Fish;41001196]If you interpreted this as a rape joke you're a fucking idiot plain and simple.[/QUOTE] It isn't any one person's place to consider something offensive or not.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;41001358]suddenly the E3 audience and most of the people on twitter, tumblr, several on facepunch, are all rape victims.[/QUOTE] I was referring to the specific incident person11 cited. jesus fuck FP is thick, obviously "[B]a victim[/B]" is a singular form and in no way can refer to all of E3 and facepunch, I know the difference between singular and plural. she interpreted as a rape joke, and by Frozen_Fish's statement she would be a "fucking idiot", hence he's calling a rape victim an idiot. people need to read the damn thread lol
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41001739]I don't think microchips should be implanted in every person at birth so it stops them from uttering the phrase "it will be over soon", but maybe at a hugely popular press conference maybe re-think your trash talking. Context matters. It isn't any one person's place to consider something offensive or not.[/QUOTE] like i've been saying this whole time? With the words "context matters" even? I've been saying that. I agree, not the time or place, but it's not the words. It's the context. Even in this context, it wasn't meant as a rape joke, taking it as a rape joke is someones own interpretation. Not a fact. It was a bad choice of words meant not about rape.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;41001624]No it isn't and just because someone can be triggered over something someone said that wasn't mean in that way doesn't mean no one can ever say it.[/QUOTE] In this context, of course it is. Unlike going to the dentist (as someone compared it), she's being mercilessly beaten against a very skilled opponent who's taunting her in-game (or, "friendly banter," as Microsoft describes it). It's no coincidence that the joke offended a lot of users throughout the internet - there's very few contexts where that sort of false condolences come from. It's a huge generalization within rape - the predator says something pseudo-sympathetic in order to calm down the victim. Plus, rape culture is a huge part of gaming. Saying crap like "You got raped," "they got raped," "we're raping," etc is an online equivalent of saying "you got wrecked/pwnd." Likewise, there's teabagging in Halo, "Down But Not Out" rape gestures in Gears of War, sexual harassment throughout XBOX Live, and demeaning feminine slurs (bitch, pussy, etc) in-game against losing parties, etc. Combine that with gaming's long history with objectification/misogyny, and the context is extremely poor. Just because someone "didn't mean it that way" doesn't mean they can absolve themselves of responsibility. In America, Southerners who proudly flaunt the Confederate flag have no idea that its 20th century history mostly rests within the KKK's revival of the flag. Likewise, making anti-Semitic jokes which reference the Holocaust (i.e. What's the difference between a Jew and a pizza? Pizza doesn't scream when you put it in the oven. ) are still offensive and triggering to survivors - even if you "didn't mean" to talk about things that way. It's just basic compassion - good people educate themselves on social justice, and check their privilege. It's such a simple, easy thing to do - white men are so privileged in society, it barely takes any time to study rape culture/gender theory and understand what sort of things are/aren't offensive. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Frozen_Fish;41001196]If you interpreted this as a rape joke you're a fucking idiot plain and simple.[/QUOTE] It's funny because you don't even know what rape culture is, nor understand how a rape affects the victim. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;41001764]like i've been saying this whole time? With the words "context matters" even? I've been saying that. I agree, not the time or place, but it's not the words. It's the context. Even in this context, it wasn't meant as a rape joke, taking it as a rape joke is someones own interpretation. Not a fact. It was a bad choice of words meant not about rape.[/QUOTE] But its historical context, in Western culture, is in rape. If he said "oh you're getting wrecked" - then YES, that has nothing to do with rape. This is a little different, because of how stereotypical it is.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;40996261]not really, i'm not even a woman and i can tell it sounds creepy in its entirety(mostly due to the second part of the joke) lol. he basically told a woman she "Must like fight sticks" after telling her "It will be over soon", you don't need to be a genius to know how this could be taken to some, especially to feminist groups who probably deal with misogyny daily. also its a bad joke overall, and horribly forced lol.[/QUOTE] You took it out of context. He didn't refer to the fight stick, he referred to the blows/attacks that he gave ingame.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;41001808] Holy shit you are looking for problems in places they just don't belong[/QUOTE] Contrary to popular belief people don't sit around at the Microsoft E3 conference writing down all the questionable stuff people on stage say. This got picked up because clearly a lot of people were offended by it. I wasn't personally, but I do think that better language could be used. Don't fire the dude, just hopefully next time he is a little more conscious to the things he is saying. Those things are always awkward so I can't be too hard on the guy.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41001767]In this context, of course it is. Unlike going to the dentist (as someone compared it), she's being mercilessly beaten against a very skilled opponent who's taunting her in-game (or, "friendly banter," as Microsoft describes it). It's no coincidence that the joke offended a lot of users throughout the internet - there's very few contexts where that sort of false condolences come from. It's a huge generalization within rape - the predator says something pseudo-sympathetic in order to calm down the victim. Plus, rape culture is a huge part of gaming. Saying crap like "You got raped," "they got raped," "we're raping," etc is an online equivalent of saying "you got wrecked/pwnd." Likewise, there's teabagging in Halo, "Down But Not Out" rape gestures in Gears of War, sexual harassment throughout XBOX Live, and demeaning feminine slurs (bitch, pussy, etc) in-game against losing parties, etc. Combine that with gaming's long history with objectification/misogyny, and the context is extremely poor. Just because someone "didn't mean it that way" doesn't mean they can absolve themselves of responsibility. In America, Southerners who proudly flaunt the Confederate flag have no idea that its 20th century history mostly rests within the KKK's revival of the flag. Likewise, making anti-Semitic jokes which reference the Holocaust (i.e. What's the difference between a Jew and a pizza? Pizza doesn't scream when you put it in the oven. ) are still offensive and triggering to survivors - even if you "didn't mean" to talk about things that way. It's just basic compassion - good people educate themselves on social justice, and check their privilege. It's such a simple, easy thing to do - white men are so privileged in society, it barely takes any time to study rape culture/gender theory and understand what sort of things are/aren't offensive. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] It's funny because you don't even know what rape culture is, nor understand how a rape affects the victim. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] But its historical context, in Western culture, is in rape. If he said "oh you're getting wrecked" - then YES, that has nothing to do with rape. This is a little different, because of how stereotypical it is.[/QUOTE] No. It in this context referred to the power he held over her in the game. Not how he wanted to rape her. You see that. That doesn't make it so. Yes, when you directly use the words "we're raping" what else can it really mean? but that isn't the case here, and saying that it is is just that, you saying it. Basic compassion tells me many things. It doesn't tell me that the words I use are incredibly more important than the context so much so those words are themselves, bad. To say "It'll be over soon" in a game where you're beating the opponent is not a "rape culture" phrase. Oh yes, I must not have studied something to have a differing opinion on it than you. That's totally how that works. how you see a phrase societally and how everyone else sees them are different. Just because some people don't see it as a rape related phrase doesn't mean those people support rape culture. that's a huge assumption.
i used to use "it'll all be over soon" all the time when roughhousing with siblings when i was a kid i mean i have no way of knowing how he intended it or if the writer intended it that way but it's not the sort of thing that strikes me as exclusive to rape jokes
After the first laugh they should've ended it. At that point it could've just been edgy and mildly humorous, but they had to fuck it up again. I'm not even offended and I know this was a shit move. They should've known people'd be too damn sensitive to take it.
[QUOTE=Frozen_Fish;41001196]If you interpreted this as a rape joke you're a fucking idiot plain and simple.[/QUOTE] They're not idiots, they're just sensitive about it, you don't understand and you kind of aggressive and unsympathetic dicks need to fuck off.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41001847]Contrary to popular belief people don't sit around at the Microsoft E3 conference writing down all the questionable stuff people on stage say. This got picked up because clearly a lot of people were offended by it. I wasn't personally, but I do think that better language could be used. Don't fire the dude, just hopefully next time he is a little more conscious to the things he is saying. Those things are always awkward so I can't be too hard on the guy.[/QUOTE] I wish that were the case, but sadly journalists like Patricia Hernandez exist who really do watch these sorts of events hoping to find something to be offended about, and they have the power to cause innocuous non-issues to snowball. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41002036]They're not idiots, they're just sensitive about it, you don't understand and you kind of aggressive and unsympathetic dicks need to fuck off.[/QUOTE] Boo hoo, there were lots of jokes that some people might have interpreted as alluding to murder during E3 as well but I don't see you complaining about those.
[QUOTE=Frozen_Fish;41002037]I wish that were the case, but sadly journalists like Patricia Hernandez exist who really do watch these sorts of events hoping to find something to be offended about, and they have the power to cause innocuous non-issues to snowball.[/QUOTE] Is she the only one who is complaining about this or has empathy for those complaining about it? Obviously not. So I don't see what your anecdote has to do with this.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41002074]Is she the only one who is complaining about this or has empathy for those complaining about it? Obviously not. So I don't see what your anecdote has to do with this.[/QUOTE] draw the line between people with empathy and without on a comment that's offensiveness is debateable? not really a great idea or a great generalization
Oh boy its like the dongle jokes all over again.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;41001875]No. It in this context referred to the power he held over her in the game. Not how he wanted to rape her. You see that. That doesn't make it so. Yes, when you directly use the words "we're raping" what else can it really mean? but that isn't the case here, and saying that it is is just that, you saying it. Basic compassion tells me many things. It doesn't tell me that the words I use are incredibly more important than the context so much so those words are themselves, bad. To say "It'll be over soon" in a game where you're beating the opponent is not a "rape culture" phrase. Oh yes, I must not have studied something to have a differing opinion on it than you. That's totally how that works. how you see a phrase societally and how everyone else sees them are different. Just because some people don't see it as a rape related phrase doesn't mean those people support rape culture. that's a huge assumption.[/QUOTE] Just because there's a specific context within the game - the combo, how the fight is going, etc - doesn't necessarily mean that that's the only context. It's a very common line stated within rape, and similar lines are part of rape culture and jokes. Context isn't a binary situation; it's multifactorial. There's a history behind these sort of lines, and there's a reason why it upset a lot of viewers - it seemed to replicate the use of that line within rape. Likewise, it's not like some fringe group complained about the trash talking; a variety of male and female video game developers (Jonathan Blow seems to be one of the more popularly quoted) complained that it was misogynistic. It's pretty telling when it isn't just radfems complaining. Likewise, Hernandez wrote a good article explaining how the power dynamic within game is tied to rape culture in trash talking, [quote]The power dynamic was already set in place before the match even started, and it wasn't in my favor. Trash talk makes it obvious that the implicit understanding of the language of dominion isn't just sexualized. It's gendered. That power struggle is culturally understood to be a man versus woman thing, even though rape doesn't just happen to women. Most of the slurs of choice point toward the same thing. Someone is a bitch, they're a faggot—feminine—and if you beat someone, then you raped them. The imagery there for most of us will be the same: a man physically assaulting a woman, not the other way around.[/quote] Yes, he's not saying "Oh I raped you!" but there's still a history behind it. It replicates the same sort of lines to instill compliance in victims, and multiplayer trash talking seems to actively accept this sort of commentary as part of the power dynamic. Again, it's like flying the Confederate Flag. There's a history behind it. If you don't understand why these people are upset, you're not looking at the big picture. But basic compassion motivates us to accept when others are upset, instead of trying to tell them that they're "overreacting" or "looking to be upset." If we're compassionate, we try to understand why something could upset other people, and maybe learn a little bit about why others find it offensive. Meanwhile, it's narrow-minded to simply say "Well you're wrong for being upset," as a lot of Facepunch users have been stating. Gender roles are a little bit more complicated than "opinions." Academia and sociologists pretty much acknowledge that rape culture, gender roles, and internalized/institutionalized misogyny actively exists within our society (as well as classism and racism). Herbert Marcuse wrote a great essay, called "Oppressive Tolerance," in the 60s about how feminism, civil rights, and other progressive attitudes can't be taken on the same playing field as sexism and racism. Because sexism and racism are internalized within our society, progressive policies need a stronger representation within media/society. Sociologists eventually caught up with the idea after the 70s. Since rape culture is institutionalized/internalized, remaining apathetic on rape culture is essentially supporting it. It's like not taking a stance on gay marriage - since homophobia is internalized within society, it's essentially supporting the opposition.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;41001624]No it isn't and just because someone can be triggered over something someone said that wasn't mean in that way doesn't mean no one can ever say it.[/QUOTE] also doesn't mean we can't get angry at a huge company that should know better using it in front of millions of people
[QUOTE=Frozen_Fish;41002037]I wish that were the case, but sadly journalists like Patricia Hernandez exist who really do watch these sorts of events hoping to find something to be offended about, and they have the power to cause innocuous non-issues to snowball.[/quote] She's a fucking rape victim. She was raped multiple times. Why do you think she cares so much about rape culture? Because rape culture led to her being raped. [quote]Boo hoo, there were lots of jokes that some people might have interpreted as alluding to murder during E3 as well but I don't see you complaining about those.[/QUOTE] Yeah because we respect murder victims and actively get upset when someone threatens another person with murder. Likewise, we don't blame the victim when he/she's murdered. "Oh, your brother was shot? Hmm, he shouldn't have been wearing that new suit. Yeah, that's why he got shot. Not because the shooter is a fucking psycho."
I understand why they're upset. It doesn't mean I am. It doesn't mean I agree with that. I've stated what I think about context and phrase, and you disagree with me. It's multicontextual, and if you only see a rape context in that phrase and many others, that's you and other people. Obviously there are lines to be debated and talked about, and you've already drawn them. I have taken a stance that rape culture is wrong. There are however, some logical problems I have when people like you say I don't support the cause and in fact support rape because I don't fully agree with you on the context and language being used. I've read that hernandez article and I found problems with it just like I have problems with this quote. To go back to what you said about "wrecked" versus "raped" or "it'll be over soon", what does wrecked mean? It means beaten, battered, destroyed to a point of lacking function. That is a power phrase as much if not more so than "it'll be over soon" and to pretend that it can't also be looked at in a negative light is stupid and short sighted. Language is transititve and making words "taboo" or what have you only creates new words to fill those words places. Seriously, the context and intent of what people say is so much more important and people are freaking out over "it'll be over soon you're losing as it is" but nope, i'm a rape supporter because I don't see rape in that phrase [editline]11th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;41002159]also doesn't mean we can't get angry at a huge company that should know better using it in front of millions of people[/QUOTE] I'm not defending microsoft or their use of the words.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;41002082]draw the line between people with empathy and without on a comment that's offensiveness is debateable? not really a great idea or a great generalization[/QUOTE] It's offensiveness isn't debateable.
I understand what you mean. I just think that the nitty gritty of "defining" the joke is pointless when it seems to be fueling gaming rape culture. We have posters right on here saying "stop being oversensitive about rape jokes," twitter users making misogynistic jokes about the event, developers complaining that it's only solidifying gender stereotypes within gaming, etc. Going beyond the joke, it seems to be bringing out gaming's completely backwards relationship with misogyny. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;41002195]To go back to what you said about "wrecked" versus "raped" or "it'll be over soon", what does wrecked mean? It means beaten, battered, destroyed to a point of lacking function. That is a power phrase as much if not more so than "it'll be over soon" and to pretend that it can't also be looked at in a negative light is stupid and short sighted.[/QUOTE] Wrecked is extremely abstract and isn't even an indirect reference to rape, though. It's not like "I'm gonna wreck you" is considered an extremely stereotypical phrase within rape. In fact, it's typically used ironically and comically, so it has a light-hearted notion to it. Whereas rape references are often dead serious. It's still part of a power dynamic, true, but wrecked is abstract enough to be gender-neutral. It's probably not going to trigger a rape victim, whereas something along the lines of "It will be over soon" is much more likely to be triggering. Granted, inflection and context matters of course, but it just doesn't have the cultural background that the producer's line does. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;41002317]It's offensiveness isn't debateable.[/QUOTE] Offensiveness is in the eye of the offended, not the observer :v:
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