[QUOTE=Lankist;20817210]Then why are you settling on bullshit if you want a single-payer option?
Have you not considered how counterproductive the current system will be? Do you just not realize that rolling over is going to get you nowhere?[/QUOTE]
I told you I am not settling for it. However, the way things work, if the bill is killed as it is now, health reform is DONE. The public won't understand a new bill, they'll think it's just the "Democrat socialist agenda pushers" at it again.
If this bill fails, the insurance companies win. It's not the Americans that win, we will suffer from ever increasing premiums that divide the rich from the poor.
[QUOTE=Nyaos;20816357]Another win for big corporations that don't give a shit about Americans. Glad to see you sucking their cock glaber.[/QUOTE]
This has probably been replied to, but the the bill being voted on would require everyone to buy health insurance from the same corporations that everyone is buying from already. The difference is that now you can't decide to not buy it.
That's what Idaho is suing over.
Don't try to argue with Lankist, you'll get your shit tossed.
Derp derp health care derp
:downs:
Good to see that everyone has this health care thing completely figured out and know exactly what is best for everyone else.
*Sigh*
This is really lose lose.
We pass a bill, nothing changes, people blame Obama.
We don't pass the bill, nothing changes, people blame Obama.
Either way, companies win with record profits by exploiting us again.
[QUOTE=Nyaos;20817462]*Sigh*
This is really lose lose.
We pass a bill, nothing changes, people blame Obama.
We don't pass the bill, nothing changes, people blame Obama.
Either way, companies win with record profits by exploiting us again.[/QUOTE]
This bill is supposed to be the first step of many.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;20817500]This bill is supposed to be the first step of many.[/QUOTE]
It will be the first step of none if it's a piece of shit nobody likes that doesn't work at all.
[QUOTE=Lankist;20817578]It will be the first step of none if it's a piece of shit nobody likes that doesn't work at all.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I'm sorry if I was a dick, when people usually complain about the bill they just are brainwashed into not supporting health care reform in general, which pisses me off, especially since it's such a personal issue to me.
But seriously, if we're going to do reform it has to be a powerful bill. We put "sanctions" on North Korea, the small steps as you say, but they do nothing in the end. A public option might work. A single payer system WILL work. But just putting restrictions on companies... they'll just find loopholes.
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;20816069]Everyone should have health insurance, it's not like we don't already do the same thing with cars. I might as well be driving this body around, just as I do with a car.[/QUOTE]
You can't force someone to pay for something.
Last time I checked, driving a car isn't necessary, and therefore you don't need to buy insurance.
[QUOTE=Jenkem;20817984]You can't force someone to pay for something.
[/QUOTE]
Yes you can.
[QUOTE=Nyaos;20817462]*Sigh*
This is really lose lose.
We pass a bill, nothing changes, people blame Obama.
We don't pass the bill, nothing changes, people blame Obama.
Either way, companies win with record profits by exploiting us again.[/QUOTE]
The exploitation will be toned down some, they'll have to get more clever about dropping sick people since they won't be able to blatantly get away with it anymore. Also, they'll be limited by law to 15% profit/labor costs, everything else has to be paid right back out.
It's better than what we have now, and it's all we're going to get. Socialized medicine for everyone is a pipe dream for at least the next 20 years, pushing for that now would just be a legislative crash and burn that would leave things the way they are.
You are a coward FYI.
You're too afraid to push something you believe in and pick the easiest route.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;20818390]The exploitation will be toned down some, they'll have to get more clever about dropping sick people since they won't be able to blatantly get away with it anymore. Also, they'll be limited by law to 15% profit/labor costs, everything else has to be paid right back out.
It's better than what we have now, and it's all we're going to get. Socialized medicine for everyone is a pipe dream for at least the next 20 years, pushing for that now would just be a legislative crash and burn that would leave things the way they are.[/QUOTE]
Why is it such a pipe dream? Are we the retarded child that needs a helmet to play, while the rest of the world runs around normally?
[QUOTE=Lankist;20818436]You are a coward FYI.
You're too afraid to push something you believe in and pick the easiest route.[/QUOTE]
You act like I'm in charge of something. All I have is a vote, I voted for the people most likely to make it happen, and they negotiated it away behind closed doors. For someone who hypes himself as some kind of legal and legislative insider, you really have no idea how the country works. Those with money and power make the rules, and there's nothing the rest of us can really do about it except periodically exchange one set of corporate flunkies for another.
[editline]04:25PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Nyaos;20818459]Why is it such a pipe dream? Are we the retarded child that needs a helmet to play, while the rest of the world runs around normally?[/QUOTE]
Because we spend 2 trillion dollars on healthcare every year, and that money buys a lot of Senators. This country is run by those with the money, and they will never allow such a huge source of revenue to be taken over by the government.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;20818607]
Because we spend 2 trillion dollars on healthcare every year, and that money buys a lot of Senators. This country is run by those with the money, and they will never allow such a huge source of revenue to be taken over by the government.[/QUOTE]
Ain't that the truth.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;20818607]You act like I'm in charge of something. All I have is a vote, I voted for the people most likely to make it happen, and they negotiated it away behind closed doors. For someone who hypes himself as some kind of legal and legislative insider, you really have no idea how the country works. Those with money and power make the rules, and there's nothing the rest of us can really do about it except periodically exchange one set of corporate flunkies for another.[/QUOTE]
You're living in america.
make a protest sign
use sparklies.
...Dunno what the fuck is going on, but damn do I love this free health care in Britain.
No, you guys go on, I'm good here :D
Fucking teabaggers.
[QUOTE=Jenkem;20817984]You can't force someone to pay for something.
Last time I checked, driving a car isn't necessary, and therefore you don't need to buy insurance.[/QUOTE]
Yeah you're right, this body isn't necessary.
[QUOTE=Lankist;20818687]You're living in america.
make a protest sign
use sparklies.[/QUOTE]
Glitter pens are the way to get noticed.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;20823247]Glitter pens are the way to get noticed.[/QUOTE]
Actually it's ugly color schemes.
[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/33le5xc.jpg[/IMG]
WTF is this Jamaica?!
If you let people buy insurance over state lines you could get some insurance from say, Arkansas and pay a lot less. Idaho is doing something smart. The increase in taxes would be greater than if we were allowed to buy healthcare over state lines.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;20824357]If you let people buy insurance over state lines you could get some insurance from say, Arkansas and pay a lot less. Idaho is doing something smart. The increase in taxes would be greater than if we were allowed to buy healthcare over state lines.[/QUOTE]
And yet, the prices will only be higher, or the same as now. Border lines won't matter because the small companies will be bought out, and then we will have super conglomerates engaged in price fixing again.
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;20816069]Everyone should have health insurance, it's not like we don't already do the same thing with cars. I might as well be driving this body around, just as I do with a car.[/QUOTE]
If we're gonna call health care a universal human right we might as well go all the way and say that owning a car, house, cat and a box of donuts are universal human rights that you can't deny anyone.
What nobody on either side of the issue realizes is that [I]health care costs will go up no matter what.[/I] There's so many baby boomers now entering their senior years that the cost it will take to keep them alive will cause the cost of health care to go up dramatically. The current system will not work, that should be blatantly obvious, but the Democrat's 2000+ page proposal is also not going to work. Its massive size plus putting faith into a government that is not known for great efficiency is also another nail to the coffin. Republicans have their own ideas but they haven't gotten together and made their own complete version of health care reform to challenge the Democrat's. There's so many holes in it that house speaker Pelosi wants to push it through right now and "see what happens" and then reconcile the bill in the Senate. Reconciling a bill is highly unlikely if it is passed.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;20826611]And yet, the prices will only be higher, or the same as now. Border lines won't matter because the small companies will be bought out, and then we will have super conglomerates engaged in price fixing again.[/QUOTE]
If we prevent large companies from buying other companies across state lines then that will fix that problem.
[QUOTE=Wolf_Marine;20827025]If we're gonna call health care a universal human right we might as well go all the way and say that owning a car, house, cat and a box of donuts are universal human rights that you can't deny anyone.
[/QUOTE]
Healthcare is part of life, the shit you're entitled to.
You're entitled to the pursuit of that shiz you listed.
[QUOTE=Billiam;20827222]Healthcare is part of life, the shit you're entitled to.
You're entitled to the pursuit of that shiz you listed.[/QUOTE]
You can pursue it, but nobody said you can have it.
[QUOTE=Wolf_Marine;20827025]If we're gonna call health care a universal human right we might as well go all the way and say that owning a car, house, cat and a box of donuts are universal human rights that you can't deny anyone.
[/QUOTE]
Bullshit, you have no car, you can take the bus, carpool, walk, find another way. If you have no health, you die.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;20827284]You can pursue it, but nobody said you can have it.[/QUOTE]
I think that's what I said, but I'm tired.
[QUOTE=Nyaos;20827384]Bullshit, you have no car, you can take the bus, carpool, walk, find another way. If you have no health, you die.[/QUOTE]
Health Care isn't the same as Health. Health Care is a service, and you can't force other people to provide a service to you for free. However, you can keep yourself healthy all you want.
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