8 year old boy kicked out of class for dressing as Martin Luther King Jr. for school project - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056533]On what authority can you so boldly claim that blackface isn't offensive anymore? Just because you don't find it offensive? Let me know when you declare swastikas to be culturally acceptable again. I think they look pretty neat.[/QUOTE] Way to put words in my mouth, cowboy. I never once said "By the power vested in me by the United States of America I declare blackface unoffensive." I simply stated that the context in which blackface was offensive in the past (demeaning stereotypes) does not exist in this situation. The kid did not paint his face so that he could run around and make fun of black people. It's virtually harmless.

knowing the racist undertones that blackface can carry (if you let it), in my opinion people need to look at this from a purely pragmatic point of view it's an eight year old white kid who got MLK for his school project so he darkened his face to make him look more like a black person that's literally it. it's a stretch, to say the least, to make racially-charged connections between classic blackface and what this kid did. kids wouldn't even [I]consider[/I] race if people didn't keep bringing things like this up. it's just asinine, and this kind of thing is holding us back from getting over racism as a society

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056066]Holy shit. CLEARLY IT WASN'T HARMLESS BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE OFFENDED. Are you ignoring that on purpose or what? If you want to try to argue that nothing is inherently offensive, then go right ahead. While you're at it, try brandishing a swastika or a KKK uniform in public and see how that works out for you.[/QUOTE] If we follow your logic in the end we will not be able to do or say anything that we want to, because we anything can potentially offend someone. Self censorship isn't really the way to go. There was absolutely nothing wrong with what the kid did. If he had played on a stupid "nigguh" stereotype then yes, he should clearly not do that. But at some point, you just have to stop worrying about potential outcomes of your actions. I think a lot of people have better things to do than worry.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];36056551']Alright, let's use this empirically. Offensiveness is an abstract concept determined by those who take offense, not to those acting offensively. Therefore, there is no such thing as offensive unless an individual believes there to be. [/QUOTE] Too bad society doesn't function in that nihilist sort of way. If that's truly the case, what is stopping you from running down the street being as offensive as you possibly can to every person you pass? You live in a society built around hundreds of assumptions, one of which being that certain things you do can offend people, and you should probably avoid doing those certain things if you want to succeed. [quote] Because we obviously can't use this measure to determine if something is offensive or someone is rightly offended, we need to look at the intent of the action: if something was meant to be offensive. Then we need to look at if it would be reasonable by common standards and by those it was directed at, if it could be considered offending to moral taste. Since we've already covered that the children had no knowledge of blackface, it is obvious that it was not offensive to them. But the faculty member? Potentially...except when you take into account the fact that this could hardly be considered blackface and that there was obviously no offensive intent behind it, then this quite obviously is not offensive by situational and intentional regards. [/quote] As I've already stated, intent became clear when the kid and the kid's family refused to apologize and instead demanded an apology from the school. If it was truly an innocent misunderstanding, they would have apologized for the mistake and been done with it. [quote] To put it basically, you are trying to make this kid be offensive, when he was not. Offensiveness can only be called so when there is intent to be offensive and there is common reason for it to be accepted as such, and even then [I]you have every right to be offensive. There is no right to stop you from being so. You can be a dick all you want, you can not force some one to not be a dick.[/I] To both try and portray someone's well-intentioned actions as being offensive, as we've covered meaning that there must be intent to offend, as well as then force them to apologize for it, is far more "offensive" to the basic framework of speech and liberty in this country than potentially doing something that falls outside someone's abstract idea of what is acceptable in society. [/quote] If you want to espouse freedom of speech go right ahead, but don't be surprised and offended when people call you out for being an asshole, something which has clearly gone over the head of this family [quote] Ending remarks: [URL]http://6.asset.soup.io/asset/1369/5894_5246.jpeg[/URL][/quote] LMFAO!!

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056718]Too bad society doesn't function in that nihilist sort of way. If that's truly the case, what is stopping you from running down the street being as offensive as you possibly can to every person you pass? You live in a society built around hundreds of assumptions, one of which being that certain things you do can offend people, and you should probably avoid doing those certain things if you want to succeed.[/quote] This is a decent example, if not for that fundamental thing we have been arguing all along - intent. [QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056718]As I've already stated, intent became clear when the kid and the kid's family refused to apologize and instead demanded an apology from the school. If it was truly an innocent misunderstanding, they would have apologized for the mistake and been done with it.[/quote] Or, maybe because there was no misunderstanding, they should press for an apology because they're being unfairly attacked for something they didn't do. [QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056718]If you want to espouse freedom of speech go right ahead, but don't be surprised and offended when people call you out for being an asshole, something which has clearly gone over the head of this family[/QUOTE] And so what, if you're being a dick that makes you a dick? Are you calling the 8 year old kid a racist then?

[QUOTE=Protocol7;36055505]Are you trying to tell me that you're offended by an 8 year old kid because of the history of blackface? [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] [IMG]http://puu.sh/wb83[/IMG] I don't see how that's offensive. It's not even in the style of blackface.[/QUOTE] He looks more like a coal miner than a black guy to me.

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056718]Too bad society doesn't function in that nihilist sort of way. If that's truly the case, what is stopping you from running down the street being as offensive as you possibly can to every person you pass? You live in a society built around hundreds of assumptions, one of which being that certain things you do can offend people, and you should probably avoid doing those certain things if you want to succeed. As I've already stated, intent became clear when the kid and the kid's family refused to apologize and instead demanded an apology from the school. If it was truly an innocent misunderstanding, they would have apologized for the mistake and been done with it. If you want to espouse freedom of speech go right ahead, but don't be surprised and offended when people call you out for being an asshole, something which has clearly gone over the head of this family LMFAO!![/QUOTE] for the record, the kid did say he didn't mean to offend anyone you're elevating this to some strange level of abstract like I said, you and people who were offended by this need to step back for a second and look at this event practically. I already went over it so I won't again, but basically it's asinine, and pretentious, to get worked up over something like this. [quote]The district has not issued a public comment about Sean’s request, but told KRDO that it is considering implementing special classes to teach students and parents about racial stereotypes.[/quote] this is what I'm getting at in a nutshell. it's ridiculous that something as trivial as this is making the school consider racial sensitivity classes. in an [I]elementary school.[/I] pointing out that blackface can be offensive and therefore should not be worn by an eight year old for a project is counter-productive to eliminating racism because it surrounds it with a big neon sign that says "we're not ready to let hate go". I could go on about this forever but I don't see the need. You either get what I'm saying or you don't

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056533]On what authority can you so boldly claim that blackface isn't offensive anymore? Just because you don't find it offensive? Let me know when you declare swastikas to be culturally acceptable again. I think they look pretty neat. You'd be really hard pressed to find a school that would do a play with those elements so boldly displayed. You know why? Because the schools are aware of the fact that those things are still offensive to some people and that they're better off avoiding such controversy.[/QUOTE] hahahahah right because wearing a swastika and trying to portray the character of MLK by slapping on a little paint on the face and wearing suit is the same thing. You are basically insinuating that the whole costume act was trying to portray a race of people WHICH IS NOT THE CASE HERP A DERP. I mean are people really this dense nowadays? I mean for fuck sakes the kid was just trying to look like MLK for a SCHOOL PROJECT! HE WAS IN CHARACTER! I guess we still live in a black and white society eh? I'm not saying racism is dead but sometimes you need to think twice before throwing a race card out on the table.

You're overlooking the fact that he had to dress in costume to represent the person he was doing for a school project. The blackface was part of his costume, because without it, nobody would know he was supposed to be MLKJ until he said "hey I'm MLKJ".

[QUOTE=Kalibos;36056933] like I said, you and people who were offended by this need to step back for a second and look at this event practically. I already went over it so I won't again, but basically it's asinine, and pretentious, to get worked up over something like this. [/QUOTE] Is it any more asinine and pretentious than the suggestion that because a few forumgoers don't find such actions offensive, no one ought to?

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056967]Is it any more asinine and pretentious than the suggestion that because a few forumgoers don't find such actions offensive, no one ought to?[/QUOTE] Nobody has used that rationale, ever.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;36056977]Nobody has used that rationale, ever.[/QUOTE] That's been the crux of half of the arguments in this thread, are you kidding? On a much lighter note, I love your avatar; it's strangely mesmerizing.

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056967]Is it any more asinine and pretentious than the suggestion that because a few forumgoers don't find such actions offensive, no one ought to?[/QUOTE] He is making a good point. If this was looked at on a purely objective level, then anyone who is offended by this is, well, they shouldn't be. You're basically saying that anything that can be construed as offensive should be looked at as offensive, while we're saying that we need to draw a line and stop getting up in arms over things that we shouldn't. There is nothing wrong with what the kid did, and the only people who should apologize are the people who got offended by seeing racism where it doesn't exist, and then decided to take it out on the kid and his family.

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36057001]That's been the crux of half of the arguments in this thread, are you kidding?[/QUOTE] Nobody has said "I'm not offended so nobody else should be offended." The crux of half the arguments in this thread is "The kid intended no harm, there's no reason to be offended." The other half is "Well blackface has a negative history, the kid is at fault." Also thanks on the avatar bit :v:

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056967]Is it any more asinine and pretentious than the suggestion that because a few forumgoers don't find such actions offensive, no one ought to?[/QUOTE] yes because like i said getting steamed about an eight year old painting his face is completely contrary to the aim of defeating racism the people who are offended or not offended don't actually matter because the core of the matter is racism it's like this: "that black guy is really good at whatever" -why specify his race? "to point out that he's the same" racism will never go away if people keep bringing it up ([I]especially[/I] when innocent blank-slate kids are involved) in situations that have nothing to do with it

[QUOTE=Kalibos;36057115]yes because like i said getting steamed about an eight year old painting his face is completely contrary to the aim of defeating racism the people who are offended or not offended don't actually matter because the core of the matter is racism it's like this: "that black guy is really good at whatever" -why specify his race? "to point out that he's the same" racism will never go away if people keep bringing it up ([I]especially[/I] when innocent blank-slate kids are involved) in situations that have nothing to do with it[/QUOTE] The only reason I still disagree is because blackface has a distinct and tragic history. Completely aside from the kids intent, it's definitely something that should be brought to his attention, as that kind of behavior is unacceptable for adults. If you saw a bunch of adults walking around in blackface, would you see that as improper? The kid has to learn sometime that even the most innocent of actions can still carry a lot of weight behind them. Until blackface becomes completely acceptable for everyone and every situation in society (which I doubt could ever happen), someone needs to point out, for the kid's sake, the fact that it is not a proper thing to do.

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36057187]The only reason I still disagree is because blackface has a distinct and tragic history. Completely aside from the kids intent, it's definitely something that should be brought to his attention, as that kind of behavior is unacceptable for adults. If you saw a bunch of adults walking around in blackface, would you see that as improper? The kid has to learn sometime that even the most innocent of actions can still carry a lot of weight behind them. Until blackface becomes completely acceptable for everyone and every situation in society (which I doubt could ever happen), someone needs to point out the fact that it is not a proper thing to do.[/QUOTE] I agree with you partially. It's always good to educate a child about the history of something like blackface, and I can understand that the school's covering their ass by punishing him. But I still don't see how a [I]faculty member[/I] was offended.

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36057187]The only reason I still disagree is because blackface has a distinct and tragic history. Completely aside from the kids intent, it's definitely something that should be brought to his attention, as that kind of behavior is unacceptable for adults. If you saw a bunch of adults walking around in blackface, would you see that as improper? The kid has to learn sometime that even the most innocent of actions can still carry a lot of weight behind them. Until blackface becomes completely acceptable for everyone and every situation in society (which I doubt could ever happen), someone needs to point out, for the kid's sake, the fact that it is not a proper thing to do.[/QUOTE] Your posts offend me for no particular reason, something or someone is offensive as soon as someone is offended by it, therefore you are being offensive, I demand an apology, now.

Saying people [I]could[/I] be offended, or that there is a small minority of people that would find this offensive seems stupid to me. There's a small minority of people that could be offended for almost anything.

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36057187]The only reason I still disagree is because blackface has a distinct and tragic history. Completely aside from the kids intent, it's definitely something that should be brought to his attention, as that kind of behavior is unacceptable for adults. If you saw a bunch of adults walking around in blackface, would you see that as improper? The kid has to learn sometime that even the most innocent of actions can still carry a lot of weight behind them. Until blackface becomes completely acceptable for everyone and every situation in society (which I doubt could ever happen), someone needs to point out the fact that it is not a proper thing to do.[/QUOTE] you doubt it can ever happen [I]because you won't let it.[/I] like what I'm saying is that if people want the negative implications of things like this to go away, they need to recognize racism as the ignorant, out-dated, not-worth-the-time mode of thinking that it is and put it to bed. if we want our future generations to not be racist, we absolutely should not be bringing little issues that could be potentially racially-relevant (least of all something like blackface that hasn't been a thing for like a hundred years) to their eyes because it just teaches them that we consider people of other races to be different. there needs to be a LOT more critical thinking when it comes to this kind of thing.

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36056967]Is it any more asinine and pretentious than the suggestion that because a few forumgoers don't find such actions offensive, no one ought to?[/QUOTE] I am inclined to agree (with him/her). It doesn't matter what the society is like right now. Society will keep on evolving and eventually there'll come a time when people learn to not read between the lines. The sooner, the better. In this case the kid OBVIOUSLY bore no ill will towards anyone so why get your knickers in a twist? No one's claiming it's not offensive [I]anymore[/I]. Just that people should learn to not be offended by every other thing in the first place.

I see what Led Zeppelin is saying but this a costume and not a caricature of a negative stereotype. If anyone got offended by it, it's their fault, not the kid's. People can get offended over anything, but there was nothing insulting about this except the unfortunate similarity to when something similar has been used to purposely demean a race.

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;36055598]Whether or not I'm offended is wholly irrelevant. You can't seem to grasp the fact that SOMEONE could find this offensive, which I'm arguing is highly likely, and given the fact that the kid got kicked out, actually happened. This isn't a case of PC gone wrong, even though some of you seem to want that so badly. It's a case of clueless white people feeling entitled to something that has a long and dark history that they either don't know about or willfully ignore. Truthfully, I'd be willing to bet some of you feel entitled to saying 'nigger' too. "IF A BLACK PERSON SAYS IT I CAN TOO WHAT A DOUBLE STANDARD!"[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;9tn2EhGK5ok]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tn2EhGK5ok[/video]

A kid at my elementary school did the exact same thing. Funniest thing ever. He also had an afro.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2d2SzRZvsQ[/media] If we keep looking for racism we'll always find it when and where we want to.

how can anyone be offended that someone dressing up as a black person actually dressed up as a black person that's like getting pissy at an american actor, playing a british person, for putting on a british accent

[QUOTE=cccritical;36057780]how can anyone be offended that someone dressing up as a black person actually dressed up as a black person that's like getting pissy at an american actor, playing a british person, for putting on a british accent[/QUOTE] you've missed the point by several miles

[QUOTE=Kalibos;36057886]you've missed the point by several miles[/QUOTE] No, he hasn't. You people are seeing things that don't exist because some whiny bitch had to whine about absolutely fucking nothing. The only reason this looks racist is because people are calling it racist.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36058204]No, he hasn't. You people are seeing things that don't exist because some whiny bitch had to whine about absolutely fucking nothing. The only reason this looks racist is because people are calling it racist.[/QUOTE] oh it's I-didn't-read-the-thread-and-don't-know-who-I'm-replying-to Man! this thread wasn't complete before you graced us with your presence [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] also [QUOTE=mobrockers2;36058204]You people[/QUOTE] whaddya mean, "you people"?

[QUOTE=Kalibos;36058727]oh it's I-didn't-read-the-thread-and-don't-know-who-I'm-replying-to Man! this thread wasn't complete before you graced us with your presence [/QUOTE] I did read the whole thread thank you very much..