• House Republicans Vote to End Rule Stopping Coal Mining Debris From Being Dumped in Streams
    91 replies, posted
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766028]I see their point but only if their claims are true, and I don't think they've provided information to support themselves.[/QUOTE] What the republicans are doing is cutting off a limb that was already being saved from gangrene. The point of environmental regulations is to ensure we have a planet, not a hellscape, to live on. They can't support their decisions on any reasonable level because most people can tear apart any flimsy reasoning they can put up. Bringing back jobs is not a good reason to demolish regulations that were purposefully put in place to prevent rampant industrialization and mining from causing harm to the environment.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766028]I see their point but only if their claims are true, and I don't think they've provided information to support themselves.[/QUOTE] This fucking guy, can someone please tell me how dumping toxic waste into our dwindling sources of water will make it safe to drink in years' time? Yeah, I'm putting words into your mouth, you know why? Because the implication you're making about "if others do it, why stop?" is the only result that comes from this, dirty drinking water. The fact that you trust corporations (which I doubt you do) enough to hire proper disposal companies is laughable at best, and I'd probably laugh you out of a meeting.
Dear Republicans If I have the choice between being homeless & jobless and clean water in rivers or having a job and coal water in rivers then I'll take being jobless any day. Thank you for your concern but maybe worry about your grandchildren's health a little more.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766040]Their claim is that others are also dumping shit into the rivers and aren't being regulated. Ask yourswlf who are the Republicans referring to, is this claim actually true, and if it is then why aren't they also being regulated to not dump shit into the rivers[/QUOTE] This is irrelevant, though? Who cares about their claims of what others are doing, especially when they've just sunken down to their standards anyways? What was the point of bringing it up as a problem in the first place? "Oh, I guess it's not a problem since they're doing it too." Is what I imagine being their justification in all of this. That and "work for the blue-collar common man".
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766040]Their claim is that others are also dumping shit into the rivers and aren't being regulated. Ask yourswlf who are the Republicans referring to, is this claim actually true, and if it is then why aren't they also being regulated to not dump shit into the rivers[/QUOTE] Then Republicans and Democrats should pass laws regulating whoever else is doing the dumping if the issue is hypocrisy, why would you make the environmental regulations SMALLER instead of more expansive??
[QUOTE=Kagu;51766055]This fucking guy, can someone please tell me how dumping toxic waste into our dwindling sources of water will make it safe to drink in years' time? Yeah, I'm putting words into your mouth, you know why? Because the implication you're making about "if others do it, why stop?" is the only result that comes from this, dirty drinking water. The fact that you trust corporations (which I doubt you do) enough to hire proper disposal companies is laughable at best, and I'd probably laugh you out of a meeting.[/QUOTE] Honestly I would rather have everyone follow the same environmental protection regulations, I don't want people dumping mining waste into productive waterways. The Republicans are either highlighting an environmental/economic issue or are making up bs to cover their own dumping. So far people have only been stating the obvious that dumping is bad or attacking me instead of checking the truthfulness of the claims.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766083]Honestly I would rather have everyone follow the same environmental protection regulations, [B]I don't want people dumping mining waste into productive waterways[/B]. The Republicans are either highlighting an environmental/economic issue or are making up bs to cover their own dumping. So far people have only been stating the obvious that dumping is bad or attacking me instead of checking the truthfulness of the claims.[/QUOTE] I dunno man, it sure as fuck seems like you don't care
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766083]Honestly I would rather have everyone follow the same environmental protection regulations, I don't want people dumping mining waste into productive waterways. The Republicans are either highlighting an environmental/economic issue or are making up bs to cover their own dumping. So far people have only been stating the obvious that dumping is bad or attacking me instead of checking the truthfulness of the claims.[/QUOTE] Again, truthfulness of what claims specifically? The vagueness of you saying that led people to believe that you're doubting coal-dumping is bad which you don't believe.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766083]Honestly I would rather have everyone follow the same environmental protection regulations, I don't want people dumping mining waste into productive waterways. The Republicans are either highlighting an environmental/economic issue or are making up bs to cover their own dumping. So far people have only been stating the obvious that dumping is bad or attacking me instead of checking the truthfulness of the claims.[/QUOTE] Dumping waste/carcinogenic materials/radioactive materials or whatever other harmful substances you could imagine into the environment is obviously bad, I could find a metric ton of evidence if that's what you really need.
[QUOTE=Flameon;51766069]Then Republicans and Democrats should pass laws regulating whoever else is doing the dumping if the issue is hypocrisy, why would you make the environmental regulations SMALLER instead of more expansive??[/QUOTE] See above, I would like environmental regulations to be all encompassing, because they don't work to protect the environment unless everyone follows the rules. If some people do and some people don't then the ones who follow the rules get screwed.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766099]See above, I would like environmental regulations to be all encompassing, because they don't work to protect the environment unless everyone follows the rules. If some people do and some people don't then the ones who follow the rules get screwed.[/QUOTE] Then why would they vote to end said regulations protecting the environment? What's the point?
[QUOTE=LSK;51766091]Dumping waste/carcinogenic materials/radioactive materials or whatever other harmful substances you could imagine into the environment is obviously bad, I could find a metric ton of evidence if that's what you really need.[/QUOTE] Im asking for evidence supporting or refuting the claim that mining companies are uncompetitive because other mining companies are saving money by dumping shit into the rivers.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766116]Im asking for evidence supporting or refuting the claim that mining companies are uncompetitive because other mining companies are saving money by dumping shit into the rivers.[/QUOTE] What baffles me is why that is important to anyone's argument. This is a federal rule, I assume it would have applied to every coal mining company in the country. Are you asking that the ruling be all-encompassing enough to include China? Is that what you mean by environmental protection only working when everyone is following the rules? If that is what you're saying then that's a pretty stupid statement. The cleanliness of a river in America doesn't depend on the cleanliness of a river in a different country, and it's not as if cleaning one river is pointless if others remain dirty, because it's not a binary between landfill-planet and pristine wilderness, with everything short of pristine wilderness not worth bothering with. I may be completely off-base with this because I don't confidently understand what you're trying to say.
I'm pretty sure regulations aren't killing coal, Natural Gas and Fracking is.
It really pisses me off how these asshats are being so blatant in their disregard for their constituentd and I find it a shame that the same 'protesters' who were smashing up random businesses couldn't have focused their hatred/desire to go on a rampage on the doorsteps of the asshats responsible for this.
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;51766179]What baffles me is why that is important to anyone's argument. This is a federal rule, I assume it would have applied to every coal mining company in the country. Are you asking that the ruling be all-encompassing enough to include China? Is that what you mean by environmental protection only working when everyone is following the rules? If that is what you're saying then that's a pretty stupid statement. The cleanliness of a river in America doesn't depend on the cleanliness of a river in a different country, and it's not as if cleaning one river is pointless if others remain dirty, because it's not a binary between landfill-planet and pristine wilderness, with everything short of pristine wilderness not worth bothering with. I may be completely off-base with this because I don't confidently understand what you're trying to say.[/QUOTE] I dont understand what the Republicans are claiming because they aren't being clear either. WRT China, Bush cited them as the reason for not signing the Kyoto Protocol. China was given much softer goals than other countries for meeting carbon emissions so the US refused to sign it because China was given an economic advantage while following the agreement. [editline]2nd February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambeth;51766193]I'm pretty sure regulations aren't killing coal, Natural Gas and Fracking is.[/QUOTE] Correct but the argument could also expand to fracking fluid dumping which is a far greater water hazard in my view. I still want to know what the Republicans are attempting to communicate
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51766040]Their claim is that others are also dumping shit into the rivers and aren't being regulated. Ask yourswlf who are the Republicans referring to, is this claim actually true, and if it is then why aren't they also being regulated to not dump shit into the rivers[/QUOTE] They aren't being regulated because their governments are corrupt as shit and could care less about their citizens developing serious health issues (heavy metal poisoning, cancer), their ecosystems collapsing (starting with invertebrates and amphibians), etc This line of thinking is absurd. This isn't even a cost:benefit issue; it will end up costing the public significantly more in the long run to remediate the land damaged by this and to address the health issues that will manifest. In terms of human suffering, the expense will be beyond measure. Productivity will be lost as children see impaired development from HM exposure. The mining companies will benefit from everyone else's suffering. Just waiting for them to pull back food regulations so we'll have to check our bread for alum or sawdust. Edit: I know and have worked with professionals involved in land remediation related to old strip mining operations for coal. The land near where I am living is marred from the work people did back in the 60s before remediation laws were put into place. In some spots, acid upwells from the ground and kills everything within a pretty significant area. Lead mining operations about an hour to the south of here turned streams yellow and have necessitated extremely expensive soil replacement. The land will never heal. Those regulations are more important than most people realize.
I hope the cocksucker of a potus gets a stroke and dies and the rest of the cabinet follows suit. He's hellbent on fucking over the health and well-being of the american people and of the rest of the planet. All i've seen is just him pushing his own interest and the interest of the cockroaches in his cabinet + friends by removing regulations that is put in place to minimize the damage the industry does to nature and regular people. It's like watching a train-wreck in slow-motion going faster. I'm super pissed off by this and everything else he's done. And i'm not even american. Please just get him fucking impeached and locked up.
[QUOTE=AnnieOakley;51765959][t]https://i.imgur.com/1ywetyy.png[/t] It's always there.[/QUOTE] Yeah but the Democrats want to get rid of it. Ironically we might actually need it if Trumps ego refuses to let him peacefully transfer power if he loses an election.
In this thread I learned that RIPBILLYMAYS thinks that life, health, and wellbeing are secondary to profit The terrifying thing is that half of the country, and the bulk of our government at the moment, agree with this sentiment. Honestly who gives a shit if anyone gets an economic advantage through causing harm to the planet and the people on it? Fuck those guys. They should be regulated to death anyway for willingly causing harm.
"profit over people" really does apply here does it?
What the flying fuck. How can anyone defend this?
[QUOTE=piddlezmcfuz;51768461]In this thread I learned that RIPBILLYMAYS thinks that life, health, and wellbeing are secondary to profit The terrifying thing is that half of the country, and the bulk of our government at the moment, agree with this sentiment. Honestly who gives a shit if anyone gets an economic advantage through causing harm to the planet and the people on it? Fuck those guys. They should be regulated to death anyway for willingly causing harm.[/QUOTE] it's truly a disgusting and reprehensible way of thinking. but hey, at least when our water is poisoned, every coral reef is destroyed, all of the ice is gone, the rising sea levels destroy homes, rain forests get flattened, and we use enough fossil fuels to burn a hole in our atmosphere, we'll be able to say "i told you so." [QUOTE=dustyjo;51768602]What the flying fuck. How can anyone defend this?[/QUOTE] By not giving a shit about literally anything other than how much money is in your bank account. The people elected someone who puts money in front of everything, so its not surprising hes using his power to gain riches at the expense of destroying the environment.
everybody in west virginia should be livid, coal mining dumping has turned their water system to toxic sludge and the rule was enacted in response to spills there, no removing this rule is a thinly veiled attempt to kill coal miners not their jobs
I mean if you made 5000 jobs, then those 5000 die of poisoning, then you still need another 5000 jobs to fill that's 10k jobs. Guys, I figured out how Trump will give us millions of jobs.
As much as some of the things the left does is starting to annoy me, the right just does something worse to keep me left.
The most baffling part about this is that people [I]still[/I] think the coal industry can come back to its supposed heyday and people [I]still[/I] think it's the big bad big guberment EPA that killed it It's an almost mind-shatteringly quick process for oil companies to go from acquiring the mineral rights to pulling oil out of the ground. Depending on how they do it it can take as little as [I]three months[/I] before a well is operational After all the heavy lifting is done, the drillers move on to the next project and you just need a handful of technicians and the occasional inspector to make sure everything keeps running Industrial scale mining can take [I]years[/I] just to set up. And takes [I]vastly[/I] more specialized equipment and personnel. As many as hundreds of skilled engineers and technicians to operate and maintain all kinds of specialized machinery for earth moving and rock crushing and trench digging Even if coal could compete with oil and gas for the energy industry, you're never going to see it providing the same kinds of jobs it did way back in this mythical heyday, because the fundamental nature of mining has changed since then. Those hundreds of skilled engineers and technicians I mentioned? The vast majority of them require trade skills and certifications that can take as long as a college degree to get Things are never going to go back to the way they were, unskilled labor is dying out at the hands of automation and technological advancement and no amount of deregulation is ever going to bring it back. The only thing that's going to do is cause long term damage to the environment and the people living in it. Companies are still going to use those machines and skilled workers because they're just [I]better[/I]. It's the same reason ships don't have have sails or rowers anymore, it's still perfectly possible to make oars and sails and ships that use them, but why the hell would you when you could just plonk a diesel engine and a couple mechanics in there for hundreds of times the power at a fraction of the cost and effort?
make a quick buck but in turn the future for your children and their children are forever fucked. But hey at least you made a few million
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51768642]I mean if you made 5000 jobs, then those 5000 die of poisoning, then you still need another 5000 jobs to fill that's 10k jobs. Guys, I figured out how Trump will give us millions of jobs.[/QUOTE] So it's basically a eugenics program.
I almost wish that people actually payed for their "sins" while they were alive. Like, these guys say "oh no lets dump that debris on the steams", the people get sick, and some kind of ultimate justice squad rolls out of their offices, comes for them at their homes, drags them out and go "YOU DID THIS. YOU MUST NOW PAY THE PRICE", and then their souls get sucked out or something. This is obviously ludicrous and just abhorrently evil, almost like "an eye for an eye", but goddamn if these decisions aren't.
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