• Pope may be open to gay civil unions
    42 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Tasm;44144249]By Catholic definition, marriage is between a man and a woman, which is why they'll never allow it. However in legal terms it should allow gays to be legally married, and fall under the category of a married couple. It goes against Catholic belief to marry a gay couple under their institution, which will never change, plus why would any gay couple want to be married by a religion that tells them their sexuality is wrong?[/QUOTE] It's not just the man and woman bit though, the whole purpose of a catholic marriage is that both parties are willing to start a family by having children. Something that gay people can't do naturally with their partners.
[QUOTE=Reds;44143910]Man, the Vatican's usual technique of "get an old guy so that he won't do much or try to change anything to be the pope" really backfired this time.[/QUOTE] Even better, it's not the first time it's happened. way back in the early 60's, the Catholic church put Pope John XXIII in charge, and he was a really old guy, even older then the current pope I think. Most thought he would be a "trastiton pope" until a new leader emerged, but nope, pope John launched the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council"]Second Vatican Council[/URL] to see how the chruch doctine could be updated to the times. before Vatican II, ceremonies were done all in latin with the priest facing away from the people, with minimal music and things like confession being mandatory. all in all rather dull and a tad depressing. But after Vat 2, ceremonies were held in the native language of the area, bibles were translated to native languages rather than latin, and the increase in freedom lead to more interactive services which gave birth to all the cheesy "Jesus loves you" music that exists today. I only know all this because religion was mandatory at my school.
[QUOTE=Goberfish;44144031]Why not just call it marriage anyway? Makes things simpler. As a Christian myself I don't understand why we have to own the term 'marriage'.[/QUOTE] In christian Doctrine Marriage is a Reproduction contract technically. It was in place when the days of no contraception existed to ensure that children would be brought up by parents. So the Church can't give gay people marriage but as Francis said they can join in civil unions with all the benefits of Marriage and the symbolism the sacrament represents.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;44144069]The church isn't going to come out in favour of gay marriage ever since they see marriage as a religious institution rather than a civil one. Supporting civil unions is the best that can happen really[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Grenadiac;44143926]I don't expect Christians to be open to the idea of a homosexual Christian marriage. Most of the ones I know aren't. But they do believe civil unions should share the same legal benefits as a marriage, and be applicable to gay couples. I think that's an acceptable compromise.[/QUOTE] Asking for homosexual people to be able to unite in [B]religious[/B] marriage is pushing it too much, in my opinion, since it's going against religious guidelines. But the main problem is how even legal marriage is frowned upon, which should NOT be a problem in the first place.
Exactly. Marriage is a religious practice, civil union is separate from religious beliefs. If a religion says homosexuality is forbidden, that's their business. If civil unions grant basically same economical and law merits as marriage and the practical effects are more or less identical, then that is perfectly fine for gays to have access to. I'm all for gays to have civil unions, but demanding religions to change their inner practices is just as intrusive as religions asking gays to change their practices.
[QUOTE=thejjokerr;44147495]Does it really matters what the pope says/thinks if the rest of the vatican doesnt agree with it? Didnt they come back on something cool he said like half a year ago.[/QUOTE] No the pope is Gods representative on earth and is Infallible
[QUOTE='[Green];44147470']Exactly. Marriage is a religious practice, civil union is separate from religious beliefs. If a religion says homosexuality is forbidden, that's their business. If civil unions grant basically same economical and law merits as marriage and the practical effects are more or less identical, then that is perfectly fine for gays to have access to. I'm all for gays to have civil unions, but demanding religions to change their inner practices is just as intrusive as religions asking gays to change their practices.[/QUOTE] You couldn't have explained it any better.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;44143926]I don't expect Christians to be open to the idea of a homosexual Christian marriage. Most of the ones I know aren't. But they do believe civil unions should share the same legal benefits as a marriage, and be applicable to gay couples. I think that's an acceptable compromise.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Goberfish;44144031]Why not just call it marriage anyway? Makes things simpler. As a Christian myself I don't understand why we have to own the term 'marriage'.[/QUOTE] There are 2 things. Civil marriage and religious marriage. The first one grants you rights and the other is a sacred bond protected by god and a religious ceremony. Most people don't give a crap about the legal rights sex couples will have. They do however strongly object that same sex couples can have a bond protected by god because it says they can't in their holy book. I also think that the civil marriage should be called civil union for everyone and it should just say "2 people" instead of a "man and a woman". Let religious have their marriage, if that's what it takes to have equal rights faster.
[QUOTE='[Green];44147470']Marriage is a religious practice, civil union is separate from religious beliefs.[/QUOTE] Religion, particularly the Church doesn't and shouldn't have a monopoly or have the last word on what defines a marriage, and if civil unions are separate from religious beliefs then why does the pope want to "give his blessings" to them? [QUOTE='[Green];44147470']If a religion says homosexuality is forbidden, that's their business.[/QUOTE] Yeah, and it should [I]stay[/I] theirs
great...but civil unions are a legal thing not a religious thing... unless this means he will start allowing civil unions in Vatican City, there's not much else this has sway over
Misread this as "Putin may be open to gay civil unions" because of all the Russia threads. When I read it correctly, I was still surprised. Slightly less though. Frank's a decent pope.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44143880]and some folks still refuse to believe this guy is probably the best pope one could realistically hope for.[/QUOTE] Best pope we could realistically hope for, sure; I just don't think that means we should automatically praise him just for being not totally awful.
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