"Make drugs legally available", says Ex-Minister Bob Ainsworth
225 replies, posted
yes, this is good. Though I think they won't get rid of the hard drug problem by making harder drugs prescription only, after all doctors prescribe similar drugs already. Instead they should make all drugs over the counter in smaller amounts, like heroin pills or partially cocaine mixtures like the way they do over the counter medical drugs now. And maybe they could even give people licenses to sell it.
For heroin I think licensed places to do it would be great. The people running it would be medically trained and would allow the correct usage, and they could maybe have a use amount chart or something that would not allow people to do it in intervals that are too close. It would allow people to do the drug under safe and controlled conditions and would stop a lot of abuse. I can easily see the argument that people will still find it on the black market and use it, but you can never really stop that. I think that most people prefer this option because it is safer and that it would prevent a lot of deaths and addictions. Another argument against it could be that it would attract people who wouldn't normally try it to do it, and I really don't see a problem with that because the issue isn't that people are doing the drug, the issue is that people are incorrectly using it or using it too frequently.
Sounds like a pretty delicate subject..
But I'm down for that, legalise all drugs. What's the worst that could happen?
On a side note.. I don't see how legalisation has anything to with the addictiveness of a drug.. In fact if, say Heroin was made legal, I bet a lot of people would get addicted due to its availability, i mean you can't trust people out of all people to actually use the even-legal drugs rationally.
If people want drugs, they're going to get them one way or another.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;26737241]No, that's not what the theory is, and that's never been what it is. It's a fairly simple idea honestly. Drugs = illegal. People = Want drugs. People get illegal drugs. Nothing in the premise of them being illegal stops anyone from getting them. Banning them and cracking down on them has done nothing, has done worse than nothing, it has been in place while drug statistics have spiraled beyond what anyone imagined. It's not a bad thing because a lot of that is soft drugs, but all the same, drug use has gone up through prohibition, did you think the alcohol prohibition did the job any better? No.
Look at portugual if you want to be smart. They had a terrible drug problem, worst in the EU, and they simply legalized all drugs and established some small treatment centers to help with drug education and use and safety and rehab.
Guess what? Drug problem fell off the map. Almost right away.[/QUOTE]
so how is "making drugs legal reduces abuse" at all different from what i said, which is basically "making drugs illegal causes abuse"? that's the same fucking theory. i mentioned what i mentioned about russia because it's true.
[editline]16th December 2010[/editline]
and it is a very prevalent theory as well, the reason other nations have a lower drinking age than the US has nothing to do with history, tradition or culture, but raising the drinking age lowers the amount of binge drinking, the drawn connection being that [U]a lot of people live with the methodology that rules are meant to be broken[/U], with different severity, and of course not consistent with entire demographics, but that's the gist of it. another example is like telling a your son or daughter they can't stay up past 9PM, they will try to do so just because you tell them not to. a lot of US university professors have actually been pushing for a lower drinking age [I]because of that[/I] for several years - is it ever going to happen? i highly doubt it, but that's irrelevant, as it is still the theory.
just because it was worded differently doesn't mean it was different
[QUOTE=BlackRainbow;26742689]Sounds familiar...
[img_thumb]http://img1.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n10/n52646.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
That book any good?
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;26749061]That book any good?[/QUOTE]
Yes, it's excellent.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;26736319]Dear fucking god do you people seriously not get it? There are a fucking ton of horror stories, big fucking deal. There's 10x, 20x, 30x even more stories that are perfectly harmless and enjoyable. The fact of the fucking matter is that the drugs didn't cause this, those people were fucking insane in the first place and the drug just showed that. So, LEGALIZE IT! Then you have to get tested to buy it and you'd be told whether or not you could, because they do cause insanity in people with a history of psychological issues.
Or you can just be totally ignorant.[/QUOTE]
This x 1000.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;26744223]Sounds like a pretty delicate subject..
But I'm down for that, legalise all drugs. What's the worst that could happen?
On a side note.. I don't see how legalisation has anything to with the addictiveness of a drug.. In fact if, say Heroin was made legal, I bet a lot of people would get addicted due to its availability, i mean you can't trust people out of all people to actually use the even-legal drugs rationally.[/QUOTE]
I don't think the law is the really stops many people taking heroin.
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;26734865]All drugs should be legal and regulated, making them illegal only creates bigger problems than it solves. Portugal recently de-criminalized use of all drugs and that turned out to be a great success. By legalizing and regulating we also kill organized criminal gangs by ruining their number 1 income.[/QUOTE]
It would still cause problems, serious drug addicts will still be short of money for their drugs so they'll start robbing their money.
[QUOTE=daumantas100;26749482]It would still cause problems, serious drug addicts will still be short of money for their drugs so they'll start robbing their money.[/QUOTE]
There will be less addicts though, where drugs are decriminalized, usage falls. Of course there will still be problems, no one's claiming heroin prohibition is the only thing stopping the world from solving all its problems instantly, it's just legalizing is a better choice than prohibition.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26737281][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy-y-uamSiE[/media]
A comedian on "The War on Drugs"
And how fucking ridiculous it really sounds.
[editline]16th December 2010[/editline]
This video is Bill Hicks, check out his stuff.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yfe0_g6z7c&feature=related[/media][/QUOTE]
I approve of this.
[QUOTE=daumantas100;26749482]It would still cause problems, serious drug addicts will still be short of money for their drugs so they'll start robbing their money.[/QUOTE]
I love this portrayal of addicts. Every addict will kill and steal to obtain his precious drug of choice, instead of just sitting on the couch shivering and waiting for their dealer or a friend to call so they can beg them for a free hit.
Oh, and btw... There are functioning addicts in society. They have jobs, they make money legitimately, and they buy their drug of choice with their paycheck--not stolen TVs.
[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;26750771]I love this portrayal of addicts. Every addict will kill and steal to obtain his precious drug of choice, instead of just sitting on the couch shivering and waiting for their dealer or a friend to call so they can beg them for a free hit.
Oh, and btw... There are functioning addicts in society. They have jobs, they make money legitimately, and they buy their drug of choice with their paycheck--not stolen TVs.[/QUOTE]
I hope you are not ignoring the ones that actually live on welfare benefits, use that shit on drugs and when the money runs out they steal shit for more money until they get their monthly welfare bonuses again, for more drugs.
I might watch this 'Reindeer spotting' movie, it's a reality film about subutex addicts in finland :v:. The film is so disgusting but I have never seen it from the beginning till the end. It gives a pretty good portrayal of some addicts, not at all stereotypical. Not sure how many addicts are like them in the movie, but at least it shows there really are these kinda robbing disgusting druggies.
[QUOTE=daumantas100;26749482]It would still cause problems, serious drug addicts will still be short of money for their drugs so they'll start robbing their money.[/QUOTE]
Which they've always been doing
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;26752082]I hope you are not ignoring the ones that actually live on welfare benefits, use that shit on drugs and when the money runs out they steal shit for more money until they get their monthly welfare bonuses again, for more drugs.
I might watch this 'Reindeer spotting' movie, it's a reality film about subutex addicts in finland :v:. The film is so disgusting but I have never seen it from the beginning till the end. It gives a pretty good portrayal of some addicts, not at all stereotypical. Not sure how many addicts are like them in the movie, but at least it shows there really are these kinda robbing disgusting druggies.[/QUOTE]
Key Fucking Word. SOME.
The problem with you people who seem to believe that addicts are theives, liars and killers or some insane bullshit like that is that you're all vouching for thought crime. MOST addicts do not do anything against the law besides their drug deals of choice, MOST people are what we legislate by, because those MOST, DO NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG.
Why does it always seem like FP has so many idiots who want legislation based on minority cases, minority facts, etc. There's so many flaws in these arguments that how you don't see them as you make them is ridiculous.
the problem is that hes an 'ex' minister
Legalizing drugs would be very bad for society because the number of pot overdoses would triple from six thousand daily to eighteen thousand daily
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;26795242]Key Fucking Word. SOME.
The problem with you people who seem to believe that addicts are theives, liars and killers or some insane bullshit like that is that you're all vouching for thought crime. MOST addicts do not do anything against the law besides their drug deals of choice, MOST people are what we legislate by, because those MOST, DO NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG.
Why does it always seem like FP has so many idiots who want legislation based on minority cases, minority facts, etc. There's so many flaws in these arguments that how you don't see them as you make them is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
You're telling me the majority of ice addicts live normal, successful, happy lives?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;26735280]...God no.
Acid is used to help with cluster headaches and migraines, it's proven to be the best fix of those. MDMA and shrooms are showing amazing qualities in helping people with PTSD. Heroin is a less addictive, weaker version of morhpine basically. All could be used medicinally, and being medicinal is not the only reason a drug should be legal.[/QUOTE]
Heroin is well known to be MUCH stronger (up to 3x intravenously) and more addictive than morphine.I still agree with you, but fail to see what made you think that.
That's just dumb, imo you should get a death sentence for using, selling, buying, exporting or importing drugs. Yes, even alcohol and tobacco. Nobody would dare to use drugs anymore because nobody wants risk getting killed for a pint of beer. Problem solved, everyone is happy. Except junkies, but we could execute them :]
Well, i've seen the good, the bad, and the downright stupid of the posts in this here thread, and now i'm ready to make my statement. Grab a drink and turn on some music, you're in for a looong read.
The way I sees it, drug usage pretty much boils down to three factors; the drug (and any impurities it might have), the person (and any complications they might have), and the environment (and any troubles there might be, both natural and manmade).
[U]The Drugs[/U]
These are the active chemicals that alter body and mind. We've got our [B]stimulants[/B], which speed up mind and body, like our caffeine, our cocaine, our meths, our nicotine. Another type is the [B]depressants[/B], which slow things down, such as our opiates, our alcohol, our barbituates.
Then there are the [B]hallucinogens[/B], which alter the mind in different ways that simply speeding up and slowing down. Hallucinogens have three different catergories; the [I]psychedelics[/I], the [I]dissociatives[/I], and the [I]deliriants[/I].
[I]Psychedelics[/I] primarily alter cognition and perception, generating states of consciousness unfamiliar to those induced by stimulants and depressants, with things like LSD, psilocybin (active ingredient in "magic mushrooms"), and mescaline (found in the peyote cactus) being capable of generating these unfamiliar states.
[I]Dissociatives[/I] are different, as they serve as filters or roadblocks, lowering the amount of input to the conscious mind from the other parts of the brain, causing the subject's perceptions of the world to become less real, thus disassociated from their surroundings. Some dissociatives have qualities shared by certain depressants. Notable dissociatives include ketamine, nitrous oxide (this is sometimes used as a propellant for whipped cream dispensers, which is kinda cool when you think about it), salvia divinorum (otherwise known as the "Diviner's Sage"), and even xenon gas.
At last, we come to the [I]deliriants[/I] (technically a subgroup of dissociatives), which some regard as "true hallucinogens", as they tend to produce proper hallucinations. Users sometimes end up engaging in conversations with non-existent entities, going through the motions of a complex multi-staged task only to realise they haven't really started (kinda like if you've just woken up and ended up going into the airing cupboard instead of the bathroom), or thinking that their reflection in a mirror is in fact another person mimicking their actions (I think that most animals react to a mirror in this fashion, as well as some human babies before they are capable of knowing what a mirror is). Some side effects are similar to those experienced by people suffering from a delirious fever, hence the term deliriant. Many plants in the Solanaceae family, such as deadly nightshade, mandrake and henbane, contain deliriant chemicals, and are rather poisonous even in small doses, so don't go looking for these poisonous plants in search of a trip, it is certainly not worth it.
All drugs have different effects, although given the many differences exhibited by humans in all respects, some side-effects may occur depending on your physiology and biological chemistry, which brings us to the second factor of drug usage...
[U]The People[/U]
As any smart person will know, not all men (or women) are created equal. Some have blue eyes, some have dark skin, some have red hair, you get the picture. When you look closely, one can realise that humans are like snowflakes; no two are exactly alike. Except if they're identical twins, but that is one of the few rare exceptions to the snowflake analogy, and even then their differences become more apparent the closer you look.
Most of the time, everyone is different, and that's not just referring to on the outside; the inside is usually different too. People respond to certain chemicals in different ways to others, sometimes well, sometimes not so well. Some people can handle drugs better than others, with some people being able to handle a sizeable dosage without suffering too much, and others being so incapable that they take half an E and wet their frilly knickers.
This is even more apparent in the UK's alcohol unit system (in the UK, a unit equates to 8 grams or 10 millimetres worth of pure alcohol), where the maximum units per day threshold, above which significant health risks may occur, is 3-4 units for the average man, and 2-3 units for the average woman. In more familiar terms, a unit of alcohol for us Brits can count as half a pint of regular beer, lager or cider (3-4% alcohol by volume) or 87.5ml worth of 12% ABV wine (half of a medium glass), or 25ml worth of 40% ABV spirits (whiskey, vodka, brandy, gin, etc).
Depending on the body and mind of the one who takes the drugs, effects can vary from the usual. If someone has an addictive personality and/or is lacking in willpower, there is a higher chance of them becoming hooked or addicted than people without such complications. Though it is not always the case, as there are other ways that one may become a "regular" concerning a drug, amongst them is the final factor of drug usage...
[U]The Environment[/U]
The chemicals and the recipients are not the only factor in the world of drugs, the environment has a large part to play as well, both in nature and in man, although man usually has more of an influence in this subject.
One of the ways man can lead to drugs is one of the more obvious reasons; peer pressure. Be it your friends convincing you to partake of the Diviner's Sage (salvia divinorum), or your friendly neighbourhood dealer recommending you to purchase a bag of weed, or even the doctor prescribing you antipsychotics to stop you having nightmares about that horrifying tentacle dude you keep dreaming about (:cthulhu:), people can influence other people to take drugs, be it from your friends, your doctor, or even a drug dealer.
Another way you can find yourself on the "yellow brick road" is circumstance. Examples of circumstances that may lead to shooting up on some freaky stuff include, but are not limited to; coping with a significant loss (like the death of a person you were strongly attached to, blowing a great deal of money on something that just wasn't worth it, etc), being in a position where drugs seem like an escape from reality (living in a boring grey street where there's nothing to do, being in a dead-end job where the only thing that keeps you going is the Friday Happy Hour at Moe's Tavern, etc), or even simply out of curiousity and/or boredom (like if there's nothing on telly, if you're wondering about what effects weed will have on you, and so forth).
Yet another path lined with strawberry fields (forever) is accessed via free will and choice, where one willingly and knowingly chooses to take drugs for the experience and sensations, as well as the social value if taken with friends (going to Moe's with Lenny and Carl). Some artists take drugs in order to find insipration or rekindle their muse, mostly hallucinogens as they tend to alter perceptions better. Having strong willpower can help one walk this rocky road without too much addiction.
But as I mentioned before, the natural environment can also be an influence. For example, in moutainous regions like the Andes, going up into the mountains means the air gets thinner, causing altitude sickness to become a problem. The Incas and other Andean peoples solved this with the help of the coca plant, which is the plant from which the alkaloid cocaine is extracted. The leaves of the coca tree contains 0.3 to 1.5% cocaine, and also contains several other alkaloids, nicotine among them. When chewed, the chemicals would enter the body, and in small doses were capable of supressing pain, fatigue, hunger and thirst, acting as a kind of anaesthetic as well as a stimulant, helping render the user numb to the effects of altitude sickness, not to mention it was allegedly capable of constricting blood vessels, thus helping to lessen bleeding. All in all, coca leaves were an important medical supplement for the peoples of the Andes.
On this long journey of discovery and analysis, we reach the final part, which I call...
[U]The Conclusion
[/U]
First off, what did we learn here today? We learned about various types of drugs and their common effects. We learned that people are different, and respond differently to different drugs. We learned that the environment can be as much to "blame" as the people and the drugs are. All in all, I think we learned quite a bit.
Secondly, it is important to be responsible, smart and wise, especially when dealing with drugs. If you're going to have a trip, remember to have a trip sitter handy, a trusted individual with a clear head to watch over you as you go on your cosmic journey, usually a good friend or a family member, and help you should anything bad happen. Make sure you have the willpower to resist any compelling temptations that may come to try again, lest you end up becoming addicted and/or dependant, and be sure to have the sensibility to know when to say when, as it were, as well as knowing your limits.
Last, and most importantly, don't crash and burn like those less fortunate individuals who failed to control themselves with the chemicals. Don't exceed the recommended dosage, resist the urge to take more than you really need. If you DO find yourself addicted, don't go cold turkey. That path can lead straight through a very deep metaphorical ravine (the greater your addiction, the deeper and longer it may be), one that sings viciously with a symphony of frost and flame that you might not be able to survive, with your addiction calling out to you to grab the long tentacle it dangles near you, pleading you to grab on and let it bring you back into it's soft, warm, calming embrace back at Square One.
In this situation, grab on and let it wrap around you, bringing you back to safety. When you try to defeat it, simply don't take as much as it tempts you to take. It might not be too happy about this, and you might suffer a little, but gradually easing yourself off the drug will cause the ravine to become less treacherous, and eventually it'll be nothing more than a shallow valley with very few hazards, allowing you to pass through safely. Now you've beaten your addiction, but still want to enjoy the drug, just remember to enjoy it responsibly, and don't let addiction keep you to long in it's cottage, lest the valley become more dangerous again.
And with that metaphor out of the way, I conclude my statement on the subject. Hope someone took the time to read it, what with the effort I put in. Peace out, take it responsibly.
Long story short, if you arn't a very strong minded person, stay the fuck away from drugs, if you are open to all possibilities and accept what you are putting in your body than you are safe mentally. unless its crack or even heroin, stay awayyy
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;26795242]Key Fucking Word. SOME.
The problem with you people who seem to believe that addicts are theives, liars and killers or some insane bullshit like that is that you're all vouching for thought crime. MOST addicts do not do anything against the law besides their drug deals of choice, MOST people are what we legislate by, because those MOST, DO NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG.
Why does it always seem like FP has so many idiots who want legislation based on minority cases, minority facts, etc. There's so many flaws in these arguments that how you don't see them as you make them is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe that all addicts are thieves, liars and killers. But a good share of them are, you can't deny that! And with legalisation, there would probably be more addicts, as well as more people who does these drugs with more.. ease? You know
I'm not prejudiced, but with legalisation of all drugs, I just won't trust all people to use them with care, no fucking way, and if you think everyone would treat harder drugs with precise care when they are legalised, then let me laugh at you.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;26799106]I don't believe that all addicts are thieves, liars and killers. But a good share of them are, you can't deny that! And with legalisation, there would probably be more addicts, as well as more people who does these drugs with more.. ease? You know
I'm not prejudiced, but with legalisation of all drugs, I just won't trust all people to use them with care, no fucking way, and if you think everyone would treat harder drugs with precise care when they are legalised, then let me laugh at you.[/QUOTE]
You're missing the point and ignoring evidence here. Legsilation HAS to come hand in hand with education and support from the government. Take already mentioned example in this thread - Portugal... Get laughing.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;26799106]I don't believe that all addicts are thieves, liars and killers. But a good share of them are, you can't deny that! And with legalisation, there would probably be more addicts, as well as more people who does these drugs with more.. ease? You know
I'm not prejudiced, but with legalisation of all drugs, I just won't trust all people to use them with care, no fucking way, and if you think everyone would treat harder drugs with precise care when they are legalised, then let me laugh at you.[/QUOTE]
Its worth a shot though, the whole situation of drugs being illegal could not be worse, its not like legalizing it will make it any worse, people would most probably even get a more understanding of the drug before they even purchase it off a doctor or attempt to because most addicts go in thinking they are fine because they don't know what the drug can do to them.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;26797100]You're telling me the majority of ice addicts live normal, successful, happy lives?[/QUOTE]
well i know they are happier than alcoholics. they get their shit done and while being at it, they feel happy and stimulated.
[editline]19th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rautatie;26797965]That's just dumb, imo you should get a death sentence for using, selling, buying, exporting or importing drugs. Yes, even alcohol and tobacco. Nobody would dare to use drugs anymore because nobody wants risk getting killed for a pint of beer. Problem solved, everyone is happy. Except junkies, but we could execute them :][/QUOTE]
you should be executed for trolling
I don't know if I should get in the mud with you guys or stay out of this one but I definitely support this plan!
I think it should be a health issue, responsibility should lie with the individual.
Just fucking legalise it, make it so that any company can make their brand, of course quality checked.
And on other side, harm-reduction from government, not scare tactics but legitimate info, and as same with alcohol, info where to get help if you get addicted to anything.
and tax. that would make government happy.
ITT: Everyone raging at me over playing devil's advocate
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.