• California funds 1st US inmate sex reassignment
    125 replies, posted
Imo, someone serving life shouldn't get a treatment that isn't required to save their life, unless its not being paid for by tax payers.
[QUOTE=duckmaster;51636727]Imo, someone serving life shouldn't get a treatment that isn't required to save their life, unless its not being paid for by tax payers.[/QUOTE] SRS is lifesaving though.
Feels a bit weird when inmates can get something that I as a free citizen can't. then again, I live in the bumfuck south, so I should probably move out of here first before griping too loudly.
[QUOTE=ColdWave;51636695]Who cares, I have a friend with Diabetes who doesn't want to live and can barely afford his prescriptions plus he isn't a murderer where is his fucking financial support for treatment? Also if go out with intent to purposefully hurt and kill others you don't deserve this much fucking less a chance at rejoining society.[/QUOTE] Maybe you should ask the question why he isn't getting the medical care he needs, rather than why someone else is. Hint: the answer lies in Capitol Hill. [QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51636762]Whats cheaper, commiting a crime for free medical treatment or trying to pay for it yourself?[/QUOTE] I value my freedom of movement quite highly, so probably the latter.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51636762]Whats cheaper, commiting a crime for free medical treatment or trying to pay for it yourself?[/QUOTE] Well i mean, seeing as you lose all your basic freedoms for committing that crime by going to Prison, I think the answer is pretty obvious? Or were you just trying to drum up shit by implying that people in prisons get "free healthcare, room, board, and food! why shouldn't you commit a crime amirite?!" [editline]7th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=SirJon;51636573]I think his point is that chemotherapy is a direct treatment for cancer, while a gender change isn't psychotherapy, which would be the proper direct treatment Although see zone's post in regards to this[/QUOTE] Sexual Reassignment Surgery(SRS) and Hormone Replacement Therapy(HRT) are considered the de-facto medically accepted course of action for treating transgender people. The Prison that gave her SRS didn't do anything different than giving a cancer patient chemo, or giving a patient insulin who has diabetes.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51636803]Depending on what I had, 2 years of prison > lifetime of financial debt.[/QUOTE] And then after that you're known forever as a criminal? Your family might ostracize you depending on your crime, it's going to be next to impossible to find jobs? Not to mention with how slow the prison system works you're not even likely to get your surgery in 2 years of being there. I really don't understand what you're trying to defend here. Nobody in their right mind would ever willingly go to prison for any reason, much less "free" healthcare. That's just an asinine idea.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51636803]Depending on what I had, 2 years of prison > lifetime of financial debt. Healthcare is a fucking scam in the US and should be nationalized and free. Or at least, way cheaper.[/QUOTE] Blame the republicans for refusing to consider national healthcare.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51636826]Better than being dead[/QUOTE] What exactly are you trying to do?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51636833]What exactly are you trying to do?[/QUOTE] Probably just considering that prisoners getting expensive surgery would set a bad example. People with depression aren't always known for being the most rational people. I mean, that isn't what I would call someone who tried to buy female hormones on the black market and amputate their own genitalia. Keep in mind, that I'm not against this. And I'm not really sure I should be against it either
[QUOTE=gokiyono;51636884]Probably just considering that prisoners getting expensive surgery would set a bad example. People with depression aren't always known for being the most rational people. I mean, [B]that isn't what I would call someone who tried to buy female hormones on the black market and amputate their own genitalia. [/B] Keep in mind, that I'm not against this. And I'm not really sure I should be against it either[/QUOTE] Who exactly are you referring to here? because as far as buying hormones on the "black market" is concerned, plenty of people buy them third party because they have shitty therapists who don't believe being transgender is real and they cannot get them in any other way.
[QUOTE=MadPro119;51636369][url]http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120[/url][/QUOTE] But here's the deal: When treating a Transgender person, I doubt you could ever truly make them comfortable with who they are as long as their brain and their body are in fundamental disagreement. That leaves you with four options: 1. Do nothing. Extremely unethical and will result in a higher suicide rate. 2. You can try to convert them to "normal". Extremely unethical and will result in a higher suicide rate. 3. Brain surgery rewire the brain to fit their body. Not only is the technology not quite here yet, but it raises ethical concerns about where the usage limits should be for that sort of tech. If it's okay to 'treat' someone who is trans, is it okay to try the same for someone who doesn't like themselves? What about corrective surgery for other mentally ill, or as forced reformation of convicts? 4. HRT and SRS to change their bodies to match the brain. Possible with current technology and new technology can only make the transition smoother. While there are changes to the brain, they come naturally instead of at the end of a scalpel, and are much less drastic than the above. So 1 and 2 are not even considerable, it's basically conversion of gays all over again, we know how well that works. 3 is not quite possible yet and raises a lot of concerns, rightfully so. So in my opinion, 4 is the best solution and the one we should continue to expand upon.
[QUOTE=Pernoccuous;51636435]this would be an arguable point if they didn't have a life sentence. they do, so it's not.[/QUOTE] No, it still is. How long they're in there for should have no effect on how they're treated. It's already flawed that we treat prison as punishment/vengeance than rehabilitation. If someone's in a life sentence, should we just say "eh, fuck it" to any detrimental signs they may have? No mental treatment, no medicinal care? We should be rehabilitating criminals, fixing them, not punishing them by locking them up for their life. Life sentences should be "in prison until they prove themselves a functional member of society," not this punishment that they "deserve" for an arbitrary sense of revenge.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;51636930]No, it still is. How long they're in there for should have no effect on how they're treated. It's already flawed that we treat prison as punishment/vengeance than rehabilitation. If someone's in a life sentence, should we just say "eh, fuck it" to any detrimental signs they may have? No mental treatment, no medicinal care? We should be rehabilitating criminals, fixing them, not punishing them by locking them up for their life. Life sentences should be "in prison until they prove themselves a functional member of society," not this punishment that they "deserve" for an arbitrary sense of revenge.[/QUOTE] So you think somebody who murders an entire family should get some rehab and let out eventually and maybe flipping and doing the crime again. No. You're delusional.
[QUOTE=Paige;51636907]Who exactly are you referring to here? because as far as buying hormones on the "black market" is concerned, plenty of people buy them third party because they have shitty therapists who don't believe being transgender is real and they cannot get them in any other way.[/QUOTE] I'm talking about Shiloh Heavenly Quine who "illegally bought female hormones."
[QUOTE=mark6789;51636994]So you think somebody who murders an entire family should get some rehab and let out eventually and maybe flipping and doing the crime again. No. You're delusional.[/QUOTE] oh ok so because it [I]may[/I] happen let's just stick with a system that's objectively worse
[QUOTE=Crimor;51636412]Nice casual transphobia.[/QUOTE] I think the correct term here would be suicidophobia
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51636384]Both are accepted medical treatments for known diseases/disorders. Where's the false equivalence. She has gender dysphoria, which lead to suicidal tendencies. One of the treatments for gender dysphoria is sex reassignment surgery. Ergo, treating her gender dysphoria by giving her sex reassignment surgery should hopefully reduce her suicidal tendencies.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Headhumpy;51636356]Post-chemotherapy deaths are also widespread, should we stop treating cancer patients then?[/QUOTE] I'm going to be honest, this feels a little unfair to compare chemotherapy deaths are literally impossible to avoid. You can avoid trans suicide. Being trans also isn't a disease in the same way cancer is at all, not even slightly close really. that isn't to disagree with you of course
[QUOTE=Blazedol;51637028]oh ok so because it [I]may[/I] happen let's just stick with a system that's objectively worse[/QUOTE] Yes. I dont want the possibility of a guy to come out of prison, flip and kill my family, or your family or anyone else again. Not happening at all is better than, "may happen", one life is worth locking up to potentially save many others. Why do some people care so much about what happens to the guys who went out and killed other people, i dont get it. I bet if it happen to you, you wouldnt feel that way.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51636809]Blame the republicans for refusing to consider national healthcare.[/QUOTE] Seriously, people wouldn't have as much a problem with this if healthcare wasn't so goddamn expensive in the states. [QUOTE=mark6789;51637061]Yes. I dont want the possibility of a guy to come out of prison, flip and kill my family, or your family or anyone else again. Not happening at all is better than, "may happen", one life is worth locking up to potentially save many others. Why do some people care so much about what happens to the guys who went out and killed other people, i dont get it. I bet if it happen to you, you wouldnt feel that way.[/QUOTE] That sort of attitude keeps the prison population high. If you want less people, you have to give them skills and a place to be outside of jail.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;51637065][url]http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/nc-man-allegedly-robs-bank-health-care-jail/story?id=13887040[/url][/QUOTE] I reiterate: [B]In their right mind.[/B] This man clearly hasn't thought through his course of actions. He's going to be deemed a criminal for the rest of his life. Prison isn't some nice little camp you go to where they give you free healthcare and then you come out and everything is fine.
[QUOTE=Paige;51637080]I reiterate: [B]In their right mind.[/B] This man clearly hasn't thought through his course of actions. He's going to be deemed a criminal for the rest of his life. Prison isn't some nice little camp you go to where they give you free healthcare and then you come out and everything is fine.[/QUOTE] Healthcare isn't a luxury and shouldn't be treated as such.
[QUOTE=gokiyono;51637013]I'm talking about Shiloh Heavenly Quine who "illegally bought female hormones."[/QUOTE] Ah okay. I must've missed that part, I thought the only crime she had committed was the kidnapping/murder. [QUOTE=Lambeth;51637087]Healthcare isn't a luxury and shouldn't be treated as such.[/QUOTE] You're right, it should be freely available to everyone and it's sad that this guy felt the need to "rob" a bank for his healthcare. A sad situation all around :/
[QUOTE=mark6789;51637061]Yes. I dont want the possibility of a guy to come out of prison, flip and kill my family, or your family or anyone else again. Not happening at all is better than, "may happen", one life is worth locking up to potentially save many others. Why do some people care so much about what happens to the guys who went out and killed other people, i dont get it. I bet if it happen to you, you wouldnt feel that way.[/QUOTE] Fuck my feelings lol. What I want =/ what is just. If someone murdered a family member I'd probably be pretty happy to watch them be crucified upside down in the streets. [QUOTE=RichyZ;51637065][URL]http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/nc-man-allegedly-robs-bank-health-care-jail/story?id=13887040[/URL][/QUOTE] This more speaks to a fucked health care situation than anything else. There's a whole lot of "If I don't have it yet, no one should have it!" in this thread
[QUOTE=mark6789;51637061]Yes. I dont want the possibility of a guy to come out of prison, flip and kill my family, or your family or anyone else again. Not happening at all is better than, "may happen", one life is worth locking up to potentially save many others. Why do some people care so much about what happens to the guys who went out and killed other people, i dont get it. I bet if it happen to you, you wouldnt feel that way.[/QUOTE] the punishment-focused prison system we have now is the reason why we have as many repeat-offenders as we do. not only that, but proper treatment for mentally ill prisoners has shown to be almost always effective enough to prevent repeat offenses.
[QUOTE=mark6789;51636994]So you think somebody who murders an entire family should get some rehab and let out eventually and maybe flipping and doing the crime again. No. You're delusional.[/QUOTE] I don't think they should get that no I also don't think they should be mistreated by our system because it's detrimental to all of us.
[quote]provide transgender female inmates housed in men's facilities with more female-oriented items such as nightgowns, [b]scarves and necklaces.[/b][/quote] This is fucking [i]stupid[/i] and I'm sure most of you can figure out why.
Curious on how much effort is being put into follow up care. Hopefully the prison doctor doesn't prescribe pills as the end all solution.
I would rather they spent that money on a therapist than SRS. Every study I have seen has shown that the mental treatment is the biggest factor in helping someone with Gender dysphoria. [url]http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120[/url] [url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/[/url] I think people can get the surgery though, but to only get it by itself doesn't seem to be recommended by the medical community at all.
Take a shot of vodka every time someone posts that study in a misrepresentative way without reading it.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51637168]Take a shot of vodka every time someone posts that study in a misrepresentative way without reading it.[/QUOTE] The best part is I did, and I still haven't seen why my points are at all wrong or go against what the study concluded. [quote]Conclusion Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.[/quote]
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