Green, Libertarian, Constitution, and Justice Party candidates for president to debate- moderated by - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Medevilae;38157747]I wish that wasn't an oxymoron- I really do[/QUOTE] Outside of the United States, it really isn't. The right wing libertarians have hijacked the word.

[QUOTE=thisispain;38157762]woo go jill stein you tell em about global warming[/QUOTE] can't tell if sarcasm but either way i actually am glad to hear someone finally mentioning the environment this election. maybe i'm a bleeding-heart-liberal, but i feel it's one of the most pressing issues we face and i've been thoroughly irked by the way it's been completely ignored.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38157698]He is an excellent speaker. However, I can't find myself to follow someone who wants to privatize education and healthcare. If he was a leftist libertarian then he would be my guy.[/QUOTE] I don't agree with him on everything, but I'd prefer him over either Obama or Romney. And he's the sanest person the Libertarians have had in years.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];38119388']Ron Paul is a social conservative-libertarian and fiscal liberal with a non-interventionist foreign policy. They're hardly anywhere close to each other, and you really need to stretch it to find an apt similarity between their actual policy.[/QUOTE] He also doesn't believe in evolution.

Dammit. Rocky is awesome :v:

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38157836]He also doesn't believe in evolution.[/QUOTE] social conservative-libertarian. Like I said.

[QUOTE=Medevilae;38157805]If you mean left-leaning socially, sure, but you had mentioned the privatization of edu/health so I assumed otherwise it'd be hard to commit to a laissez-faire governing policy if you believe gov't should be more involved[/QUOTE] Well leftist libertarianism, to me, is alternative to central planning as well as privatization. Instead of the government controlling industry, or a capitalist controlling industry, those who work and produce, as well as those that consume are given political and economic power. For example, instead of a manager deciding the quotas in a factory, the worker's union at the factory would work with a council representing consumers in a geographic region to come to an agreement on consumption and production, both being fully accountable to either the workers(in the case of the union) or the council(in the case of the consumer). [editline]24th October 2012[/editline] That's an extreme example as well. However, the downsizing of capitalism would be a prominent aspect to any leftist libertarian.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];38157877']social conservative-libertarian. Like I said.[/QUOTE] Social conservative-libertarian sounds nuttier than squirrel shit.

Virgil Goode is practically fascist is some regards

[QUOTE=Medevilae;38157805]If you mean left-leaning socially, sure, but you had mentioned the privatization of edu/health so I assumed otherwise it'd be hard to commit to a laissez-faire governing policy if you believe gov't should be more involved[/QUOTE] Left libertarianism includes: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platformism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_communism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatismo[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Marxist[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_communism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_democracy[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-leftism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_council[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivist_anarchism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_economics[/url] [editline]23rd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;38157952]Social conservative-libertarian sounds nuttier than squirrel shit.[/QUOTE] Well, that's because it is. Paul is that weird mix of being a social conservative with libertarian aspects... prominent throughout the Tea Party. It's a weird ideology. Paul is basically saying "Hey, do whatever you want, and I'll do whatever I want. And I want to vote for fucking batshit insane social policies and promote the dominance of the conservative belief system."

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];38157973']Left libertarianism includes: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platformism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_communism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatismo[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Marxist[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_communism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_democracy[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-leftism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_council[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivist_anarchism[/url] [editline]23rd October 2012[/editline] Well, that's because it is. Paul is that weird mix of being a social conservative with libertarian aspects... prominent throughout the Tea Party. It's a weird ideology. Paul is basically saying "Hey, do whatever you want, and I'll do whatever I want. And I want to vote for fucking batshit insane social policies and promote the dominance of the conservative belief system."[/QUOTE] You forgot Participism asshole! :v:

It's strange, I thought that Virgil Goode was going to be an absolute jackass during this debate based on what I saw of his positions, but he seems a lot more humble than I thought. I actually agreed with him on that term limit thing. Grandfathering in the current congressmen to pass a constitutional amendment for term limits wasn't that bad of an idea IMO. I don't agree with almost all of his positions, but at least he's a straight shooter and doesn't try to pander.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38158021]You forgot Participism asshole! :v:[/QUOTE] Fuck, how could I forget participartism! Added participatory economics to the list.

[QUOTE=Fhenexx;38158059]It's strange, I thought that Virgil Goode was going to be an absolute jackass during this debate based on what I saw of his positions, but he seems a lot more humble than I thought. I actually agreed with him on that term limit thing. Grandfathering in the current congressmen to pass a constitutional amendment for term limits wasn't that bad of an idea IMO. I don't agree with almost all of his positions, but at least he's a straight shooter and doesn't try to pander.[/QUOTE] That's something I respected about Ron Paul as well even though I'm not a big fan of his. I mean even if I hate your views, at least stand by them and be honest about them. Obama and Romney are both masters at camouflaging their agenda to the views of the audience in front of them; it's confusing and deceitful.

"Wasting your vote is voting for someone you don't believe in." Johnson's just full of good one-liners tonight.

[QUOTE=postmanX3;38158146]"Wasting your vote is voting for someone you don't believe in." Johnson's just full of good one-liners tonight.[/QUOTE] That guy holding the johnson poster in front of the camera was hilarious

I guess I "wasted my vote". Didn't vote for either of the major party candidates.

Oh boy, debate round 2 next week. I think it's pretty safe to say it'll be between Stein and Johnson. Should be interesting. My biggest problem with this debate was that I don't feel like any of the candidates really got ample time to explain their platforms, nor did they get a wide enough range of questions. Those are both understandable issues with four candidates, so maybe with only two we'll get an even more interesting turnout.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38157772]The right wing libertarians have hijacked the word.[/QUOTE] I suppose they had to take something, considering the "liberals" took theirs.

[QUOTE=postmanX3;38158288]Oh boy, debate round 2 next week. I think it's pretty safe to say it'll be between Stein and Johnson. Should be interesting. My biggest problem with this debate was that I don't feel like any of the candidates really got ample time to explain their platforms, nor did they get a wide enough range of questions. Those are both understandable issues with four candidates, so maybe with only two we'll get an even more interesting turnout.[/QUOTE] Hopefully if these Free & Equal debates picks up steam, a longer and more in depth debate can be had. This was an hour and a half, it doesn't feel like enough time to really elaborate on anything that well, especially when this is between several candidates instead of just two.

[QUOTE=smurfy;38103543]Never heard of the Justice Party before but they seem pretty awesome [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Party_(United_States)[/url][/QUOTE] You probably haven't heard of it because it's been mostly a vehicle for Rocky Anderson to try and create a progressive force that the Democratic Party has lost for sometime now. Anderson himself used to be a Democrat that got disillusioned with the party because of that, particularly among those who were hoping that Obama would embrace more progressive policies rather than his neoliberal ones. I suspect that after this 2012 election cycle the party will probably go by the wayside. Though it might surprise us and have some staying power as a third party. And Virgil Goode was as batshit crazy as someone from the Constitution Party typically is.

[QUOTE=MercZ;38158533]You probably haven't heard of it because it's been mostly a vehicle for Rocky Anderson to try and create a progressive force that the Democratic Party has lost for sometime now. Anderson himself used to be a Democrat that got disillusioned with the party because of that, particularly among those who were hoping that Obama would embrace more progressive policies rather than his neoliberal ones. I suspect that after this 2012 election cycle the party will probably go by the wayside. Though it might surprise us and have some staying power as a third party. And Virgil Goode was as batshit crazy as someone from the Constitution Party typically is.[/QUOTE] Crazy or not, he provided plenty of laughs