'Nazi Grandma' Handed New Prison Sentence by German Court - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sims_doc;51428923]I am curious, given her age does she know something that we don't? and why is she saying such things.[/QUOTE] Considering her age, she was most likely just exposed to tons of Nazi propaganda when she was young, and her personality obviously reflects that.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429217]They are offending the memory of millions of victims and the decency of humanity. I couldn't care less if they got a little fine for that, they certainly deserve it.[/QUOTE] This post is offending me, and the decency of humankind. Someone throw this loony in the prison for a couple years.

It's also not an outrageous claim to state that they were work camps (because they were) Granted, conditions in those camps caused millions of deaths.

It's stupid to lock someone up for having a dumb opinion. I've met people that say racist shit, but that doesn't mean they should be locked up for it. It's human nature to say stupid stuff. If we locked up everyone for saying stuff that offended us then everyone would be in jail. Also this lady is 88 years old. That alone is punishment enough. It isn't like she went out and killed innocent people. The only thing she did was write in a magazine and have a stupid opinion.

[QUOTE=wystan;51428793]Holocaust denial being a crime is the dumbest shit ever[/QUOTE] not in germany.

People cant honestly be defending actually throwing someone in prison just for saying dumb shit, Right? I can understand a fee and a possibly therapy, But incarceration for misguided beliefs? And they're the ones calling her a nazi.

Germany clamped down [I]hard[/I] on nazism following WW2. Places like Austria didn't, and they still have a pretty sizable group of nazi sympathizers and radicals floating around in politics and elsewhere. Criminalizing holocaust denial is unnecessary at best, even if it was very effective at weeding out nazism and preventing nazism from ever having a resurgence in Germany. But it shouldn't be illegal, as fucking stupid as it is.

A lot of people playing it off as having "an opinion" when she is actively engaging in sedition and "Volksverhetzung" (incitement of the masses). Also people haven't read the article to the end where it says that she already gotten multiple fines and other sentences before. This is not her saying "The Holocaust is a hoax" for the first time and she gets jail. She has broken the law multiple times already and I think an increased sentence is needed. It is an unpopular opinion here but I don't like unregulated free speech where it is okay (according to some replies here) to publish/spread hate speech, racism and anti-semitic slur just because it is "their opinion". I'm sure it fits the definition of censorship but we have laws for what is allowed and it is not as strict as people make it out but there is a difference between saying some racist shit to a single person and when you actively start trying to spread that stuff to incite people/groups.

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;51429450]A lot of people playing it off as having "an opinion" when she is actively engaging in sedition and "Volksverhetzung" (incitement of the masses).[/QUOTE] I often see European countries equate 'wrong' speech with "incitement of the masses." So that, alone, doesn't really mean anything.

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;51429450]A lot of people playing it off as having "an opinion" when she is actively engaging in sedition and "Volksverhetzung" (incitement of the masses). Also people haven't read the article to the end where it says that she already gotten multiple fines and other sentences before. This is not her saying "The Holocaust is a hoax" for the first time and she gets jail. She has broken the law multiple times already and I think an increased sentence is needed. It is an unpopular opinion here but I don't like unregulated free speech where it is okay (according to some replies here) to publish/spread hate speech, racism and anti-semitic slur just because it is "their opinion". I'm sure it fits the definition of censorship but we have laws for what is allowed and it is not as strict as people make it out but there is a difference between saying some racist shit to a single person and when you actively start trying to spread that stuff to incite people/groups.[/QUOTE] Yeah but its like stupid as fuck though.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51429475]Yeah but its like stupid as fuck though.[/QUOTE] What part? The jail sentence? Not letting people spew anti-semitic slur?

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;51429485]What part? The jail sentence? Not letting people spew anti-semitic slur?[/QUOTE] Both.

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;51429450]A lot of people playing it off as having "an opinion" when she is actively engaging in sedition and "Volksverhetzung" (incitement of the masses). Also people haven't read the article to the end where it says that she already gotten multiple fines and other sentences before. This is not her saying "The Holocaust is a hoax" for the first time and she gets jail. She has broken the law multiple times already and I think an increased sentence is needed. It is an unpopular opinion here but I don't like unregulated free speech where it is okay (according to some replies here) to publish/spread hate speech, racism and anti-semitic slur just because it is "their opinion". I'm sure it fits the definition of censorship but we have laws for what is allowed and it is not as strict as people make it out but there is a difference between saying some racist shit to a single person and when you actively start trying to spread that stuff to incite people/groups.[/QUOTE] I'm glad you're not in a position of power if you think that way.

Let me clarify: I in no way agree with this idiot old woman. I however disagree in policing thoughts and opinions, no matter how vulgar, crass, offensive, or factually wrong they may be. If you're an idiot, thats punishment enough.

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51429232]By that logic should we fine people who mock 9/11 too? Because to be frank, that's fucking retarded.[/QUOTE] Did millions die in 9/11, was it an attempt to exterminate an entire ethnic group? I don't think so.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429494]Did millions die in 9/11, was it an attempt exterminating an entire ethnic group? I don't think so.[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429494]Did millions die in 9/11, was it an attempt to exterminate an entire ethnic group? I don't think so.[/QUOTE] [quote]They are offending the memory[/quote] Read.

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;51429450]A lot of people playing it off as having "an opinion" when she is actively engaging in sedition and "Volksverhetzung" (incitement of the masses). Also people haven't read the article to the end where it says that she already gotten multiple fines and other sentences before. This is not her saying "The Holocaust is a hoax" for the first time and she gets jail. She has broken the law multiple times already and I think an increased sentence is needed. It is an unpopular opinion here but I don't like unregulated free speech where it is okay (according to some replies here) to publish/spread hate speech, racism and anti-semitic slur just because it is "their opinion". I'm sure it fits the definition of censorship but we have laws for what is allowed and it is not as strict as people make it out but there is a difference between saying some racist shit to a single person and when you actively start trying to spread that stuff to incite people/groups.[/QUOTE] Censorship is dangerous. What's to stop the government from banning other things on the basis that such thoughts could be dangerous for society. It starts with good intentions, but then it starts to ramp up and soon anything that the government doesn't approve of could be censored. And anyone they don't like could be thrown in jail. It's dangerous to throw people in jail for thinking differently. It doesn't solve problems, it only breeds contempt among those you are antagonizing. I hate Nazis and I dislike it when people deny the Holocaust, but that doesn't mean they should be thrown in jail for having a disgusting world view.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51429249]Can i fine you for making me wince at text.[/QUOTE] The "we can't do it at all, because everything will collapse if we do it one bit"-argument is not a good one. Fining for holocaust denial is not the same as you getting upset reading some text. The scope is vastly different.

I find it interesting that in this thread, at least according to flagdog, its Americans that are suggesting that freedom of speech should be virtually limitless, and those from Europe (mostly) are suggesting it should be somewhat curtailed in certain circumstances. Shows some fundamental differences between the US and Europe.

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51429499]Read.[/QUOTE] I'm referring to the millions of victims. The part you cut off. So my question was valid. [QUOTE=RB33;51429217]They are offending the memory of millions of victims[/QUOTE] As far as I know, 9/11 didn't kill millions.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429503]The "we can't do it all, because everything will collapse if we do it one bit"-argument is not a good one. Fining for holocaust denial is not the same as you getting upset reading some text. The scope is vastly different.[/QUOTE] I dont know, the UK's doing a pretty good job at showing how quickly you can slide down the slippery slope with how they want to police peoples sex lives. You shouldnt fine or punish someone for an opinion, legally anyway, it sets a precedent that can expand and expand and expand. People mention 1984 a lot, and with good reason. It was written as a warning.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429508]I'm referring to the millions of victims. The part you cut off. So my question was valid. As far as I know, 9/11 didn't kill millions.[/QUOTE] Oh so should we start fining truthers now then? Either way, fining for idiotic personal opinions is [b]re-fucking-tarded[/b].

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51429518]Oh so should we start fining truthers now then? Either way, fining for personal opinions is [b]re-fucking-tarded[/b].[/QUOTE] It didn't kill millions, so it isn't as important or horrible. So no, I don't support that. In case you didn't figure that out.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429508]I'm referring to the millions of victims. The part you cut off. So my question was valid. As far as I know, 9/11 didn't kill millions.[/QUOTE] Dude jesus christ. [editline]25th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;51429521]It didn't kill millions, so it isn't as important or horrible. So no, I don't support that. In case you didn't figure that out.[/QUOTE] [b]DUDE.[/b]

[QUOTE=RB33;51429521]It didn't kill millions, so it isn't as important or horrible. So no, I don't support that. In case you didn't figure that out.[/QUOTE] You are advocating for economically devastating elderly people in the brink of death who were still holding to a flawed belief. You are no different than the gestapo.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51429486]Both.[/QUOTE] Well, the jail sentence is easily explained. You have a criminal that broke the law multiple times and got increased fines over the past years. At one point you have to increase the sentence from fines to jail. From a purely objective standpoint I don't think there is anything wrong with that. About our laws regarding holocaust denial, I personally agree with them, especially when we are talking about Volksverhetzung. They are clear as to what is allowed and what not.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429521]It didn't kill millions, so it isn't as important or horrible. So no, I don't support that. In case you didn't figure that out.[/QUOTE] I need to ask, how many people died in 9/11? No, not for me, im asking you, i know how many died, but do you know.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51429517]I dont know, the UK's doing a pretty good job at showing how quickly you can slide down the slippery slope with how they want to police peoples sex lives. You shouldnt fine or punish someone for an opinion, legally anyway, it sets a precedent that can expand and expand and expand. People mention 1984 a lot, and with good reason. It was written as a warning.[/QUOTE] It was a commentary on Stalinist communist states, i don't think western democracies are that bad. Things don't collapse overnight, many countries with hate speech/holocaust denial laws are not having problems with serious overreach. Overreach may be subjective though. Edit: Forgot NOT on third sentance, pretty major difference.

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;51429537]Well, the jail sentence is easily explained. You have a criminal that broke the law multiple times and got increased fines over the past years. At one point you have to increase the sentence from fines to jail. From a purely objective standpoint I don't think there is anything wrong with that.[/QUOTE] Yeah but its based on a stupid law. [QUOTE=Mitsuma;51429537]About our laws regarding holocaust denial, I personally agree with them, especially when we are talking about Volksverhetzung. They are clear as to what is allowed and what not.[/QUOTE] Yeah. But its stupid.