'Nazi Grandma' Handed New Prison Sentence by German Court - Polidicks

[QUOTE=RB33;51429670]Stopping them from saying it in public may make us less likely to hear their talk. That's a good enough reason for most people. No one wants to hear it.[/QUOTE] But thats stupid. What if suddenly the majority didnt want black people talking? What then? "no one wants to hear it."

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;51429666]If you manage to put aside all of the bullshit he's spewing, you can kind of find a decent point in there. Many Americans tend to look at 9/11 and act like it was the most horrible, disastrous act that was ever committed by man when that's really not true. We have so many people that live in their own little bubble and don't take into account that other countries have suffered far more in the past 100 years than we have. It's unfortunate, and it may sound insensitive, but the two events simply aren't comparable. But yeah, fining people for hate speech is really stupid. For people as old as this, there's really nothing that can be done to change their attitudes, unfortunately. Instead of putting restrictive laws in place, we (the world in general, not just Germany), should take further steps to educate people on things like this. Intolerance can only be stamped out by education and exposure to other cultures, whether it be direct or indirect.[/QUOTE] The thing being is that 9/11s effects spread far beyond the death toll. Globally it's just as significant as the Holocaust, I don't think any of us can picture a non-9/11 works because it'd simply be alien to what we know currently

[QUOTE=Cructo;51429642]It's not really hate in this case, it's just ignorance. It's one thing when someone says "the holocaust didn't happen" and an entirely different thing when they say "I wish the holocaust actually happened"[/QUOTE] It's just a coincidence that these people are otherwise antisemitic? Most people who don't have a problem with jews, don't deny it happened. Only if they have problems with them or like Nazi Germany, they deny it.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51429679]But thats stupid. What if suddenly the majority didnt want black people talking? What then? "no one wants to hear it."[/QUOTE] 'no because the Holocaust was bad' calling it now [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;51429686]It's just a coincidence that these people are otherwise antisemitic? Most people who don't have a problem with jews, don't deny it happened. Only if they have problems with them or like Nazi Germany, they deny it.[/QUOTE] Surprise, a lot of people support Nazi Germany without really understanding the extent of the Holocaust, and for good reason. All things considered, Nazi rule was a great boon for the country. As a European with strong opinions on the matter, it's absolutely dumbfounding how little you actually seem to understand in regards to the context of these events

[QUOTE=Exploders;51429643]I personally believe that the holocaust never happened and it was made as a widespread collective lie made by the jews so they can have support in taking over innocent palestinian land and money from Germany that did nothing wrong at the time. /s[/QUOTE] You do know people like this exist. People can be tricked into believing anything. In the case of nazis, it's less about palestine and more about damaging the image of nazis. [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=AaronM202;51429648]Uh, post World War I Germany after it got fucked up from the war and post war shit and Hitler used that desperation to gain power by painting an ethnic group as a strawman rallying point? Im not even knowledgable in Hitlers rise to power but it wasnt just "them jews" you know.[/QUOTE] Do you think people hated jews more or less after his rise to power?

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;51429450]It is an unpopular opinion here but I don't like unregulated free speech where it is okay (according to some replies here) to publish/spread hate speech, racism and anti-semitic slur just because it is "their opinion". I'm sure it fits the definition of censorship but we have laws for what is allowed and it is not as strict as people make it out but there is a difference between saying some racist shit to a single person and when you actively start trying to spread that stuff to incite people/groups.[/QUOTE] A lot of neo-nazi groups usually use the rhetoric that the state and the world is suppressing them and trying to suppress the truth, usually in the form of some jewish conspiracy or some such shit painting themselves as oppressed underdogs. When you actively censor their right to state their opinions you are validating such thoughts. It's better to let them say what they want and make fun of them, not strip them of their right to say what they want and as such validate it.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429694]You do know people like this exist. People can be tricked into believing anything. In the case of nazis, it's less about palestine and more about damaging the image of nazis.[/QUOTE] So tell them the truth, dont ban the opposing viewpoint, god. [QUOTE=RB33;51429694]Do you think people hated jews more or less after his rise to power?[/QUOTE] What do i look like, stupid? Obviously more, but he didnt rise to power BECAUSE of the hatred of Jews, it was part of his plan when the country was in shambles, he used them as a stepladder and continued to use them as a rallying point for a hurt country. Like shit man, im bad with history but you need to crack open a book.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51429662]Hate for the Jews was not an exclusive thing to Germany or Europe, and it existed long before Hitler rose to power. Hitler did not spread that hate, he capitalized on it. That hate was based on the world being horribly broken economically with the Jews being some of the only people still doing OK. The propaganda that Hitler and others used to vilify the Jews was based on misinformation. Do you know why that misinformation worked? It's because his regime was notorious for censorship and the banning of books and other media that went against Nazi ideals. That does not apply today. If I told you that Jews are genetically inferior, you could pull your smartphone out and prove me wrong in 3 seconds flat. 1933 Germany is no where close to 2016 Germany. Even so, Nazism in Germany did not rise to power exclusively on the hatred for Jews, Hitler did incredible things for the German economy and played on the country's loss in WWI and nationalism. You could even argue that the majority of troops who voluntarily joined the German military were fighting to defend German and European culture against Bolshevism, more than they were to just kill Jews and political dissidents. But since you're going to go straight to Godwin, you realize that thought policing and censorship was a pretty popular thing in Fascist Germany right?[/QUOTE] I don't think the spread of hate against jews decreased while in power, right? It most likely increased further due to the propaganda. So hate do spread. Yes, giving fines to people for denying horrible ethnic cleanings and sending people to concentration camps for being pro-union or similar stances are a world apart in differences.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429714]I don't think the spread of hate against jews decreased while in power, right? It most likely increased further due to the propaganda. So hate do spread.[/QUOTE] Because he was IN POWER, he had that influence and control. Modern nazis and racist groups dont, they're mocked. [QUOTE=RB33;51429714]Yes, giving fines to people for denying horrible ethnic cleanings and sending people to concentration camps for being pro-union or similar stances are a world apart in difference.[/QUOTE] We've always been at war with Eastasia, etc. etc.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51429668]Because speech is unrestricted in the United States (barring explicit death threats and the like) and yet the KKK have no political say and are mocked for their beliefs without censorship. It was refuting your point. Hate doesnt spread by merely existing. [i]You're wrong.[/i][/QUOTE] Hate spreads by being told to people. Far from everyone will be convinced but some people can be. That's how nazism still hasn't died out. We stop it from spreading by making it illegal to spread it. Atleast it will spread less, which is still good.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429728]Hate spreads by being told to people. Far from everyone will be convinced but some people can be. That's how nazism still hasn't died out. We stop it from spreading by making it illegal to spread it. Atleast it will spread less, which is still good.[/QUOTE] No you didnt, its still a thing in Germany. And no, you're wrong again. The KKK now is a hollow shell of its former self, all without censorship. They're a mockery, a disgrace, the setup and punchline to a joke, without legislation aimed at them.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51429674]I understand that, but the way he's wording it is really fucked up.[/QUOTE] What's more fucked up is not seeing the difference in 4000 and 6 million dead. More jews died during a day for years. It's worse, that's simply how it is.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429728]Hate spreads by being told to people. Far from everyone will be convinced but some people can be. That's how nazism still hasn't died out. We stop it from spreading by making it illegal to spread it. Atleast it will spread less, which is still good.[/QUOTE] Nazism spreads because poor people are frustrated and it's easier to blame others for their problems rather than dealing with it headfirst. A lot of neo-nazis are usually poor lower-middle class people with crappy education and that can easily make one depressed, especially if you feel that you have no power to change anything thus it's easier to blame jews and immigrants for your problems, to have an actual enemy.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429737]What's more fucked up is not seeing the difference in 4000 and 6 million dead. More jews died during a day for years. It's worse, that's simply how it is.[/QUOTE] Whats fucked up is you worrying more about statistics than people.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429676]So you totally admit you're incapable of forming your own opinions based on fact and thus must be spoon fed what you want to hear[/QUOTE] I don't want to be spoon fed nazi propaganda when they are holding a rally. I rather seek out my opinions on my own. [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51429677]They should have the right to say their stupid ignorant bullshit, just like how you should have the right to tell them to shut their ignorant mouth.[/QUOTE] I disagree, cultural differences, i guess. [QUOTE=AaronM202;51429679]But thats stupid. What if suddenly the majority didnt want black people talking? What then? "no one wants to hear it."[/QUOTE] We take it when it happens, now it's just baseless speculation, if it could ever happen. Now it's about stopping people from spreading hate that harms others, not to harm people ourselves.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429683]The thing being is that 9/11s effects spread far beyond the death toll. Globally it's just as significant as the Holocaust, I don't think any of us can picture a non-9/11 works because it'd simply be alien to what we know currently[/QUOTE] The Holocaust had incredibly far-spreading effects, too. The creation of Israel as an independent nation basically awoke the sleeping giant of Islamic fundamentalism and extremism in the Middle East, which one could argue had led to 9/11, Germany's hate speech laws (and government in general), and a bigger worldwide focus on human rights in politics and international law (which was always an issue but was arguably sped up by the Holocaust). It's a little too early to properly look at the far-reaching effects of 9/11 because it what it caused (or exposed, depending on how you look at it), is still happening. The War On Terror still hasn't ended, and at the rate it's going, it probably won't end for a long time due to how unconventional the threat is. People have compared 9/11 to Pearl Harbor, and that makes sense given the similar death tolls and the treatment of races affiliated said attacks, but the aftermaths of each on a global scale are quite different. I apologize if I'm starting to ramble, it's getting late, but I just think it's a little too early to properly judge the effects of 9/11 on our society as a whole. We're still reeling, so to speak, and we're still in a similar state of paranoia and fear.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429747] We take it when it happens, now it's just baseless speculation, if it could ever happen. Now it's about stopping people from spreading hate that harms others, not to harm people ourselves.[/QUOTE] Meaningless, because its all a matter of perspective. To the eyes of a neo-nazi, these laws are harming them, while laws banning black people from speaking would be preventing the spread of whatever it is they think would spread, iunno, ebonics or whatever the fuck they call it.

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;51429749]The Holocaust had incredibly far-spreading effects, too. The creation of Israel as an independent nation basically awoke the sleeping giant of Islamic fundamentalism and extremism in the Middle East, which one could argue had led to 9/11, Germany's hate speech laws (and government in general), and a bigger worldwide focus on human rights in politics and international law (which was always an issue but was arguably sped up by the Holocaust). It's a little too early to properly look at the far-reaching effects of 9/11 because it what it caused (or exposed, depending on how you look at it), is still happening. The War On Terror still hasn't ended, and at the rate it's going, it probably won't end for a long time due to how unconventional the threat is. People have compared 9/11 to Pearl Harbor, and that makes sense given the similar death tolls and the treatment of races affiliated said attacks, but the aftermaths of each on a global scale are quite different. I apologize if I'm starting to ramble, it's getting late, but I just think it's a little too early to properly judge the effects of 9/11 on our society as a whole. We're still reeling, so to speak, and we're still in a similar state of paranoia and fear.[/QUOTE] No I totally agree the Holocaust has had its fair share of global effects, but RB88 boiling it down to death toll is extremely indicative of how totally deluded he is

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429683]The thing being is that 9/11s effects spread far beyond the death toll. Globally it's just as significant as the Holocaust, I don't think any of us can picture a non-9/11 works because it'd simply be alien to what we know currently[/QUOTE] Would it seem more logical to make it criminal to deny the last 15 years of history, because of 9/11 than making holocaust denial illegal? The holocaust is of a much more limited scope and there exist specific evidence to back it up. Making 9/11 denial illegal would be theoretically very impractical.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429757]Would it seem more logical to make it criminal to deny the last 15 years of history, because of 9/11 than making holocaust denial illegal? The holocaust is of a much more limited scope and there exist specific evidence to back it up. Making 9/11 denial illegal would be theoretically very impractical.[/QUOTE] And what makes holocaust denial bans more practical? [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] Wait hold up are you saying there isnt specific evidence backing up 9/11.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429714]I don't think the spread of hate against jews decreased while in power, right? It most likely increased further due to the propaganda. So hate do spread. Yes, giving fines to people for denying horrible ethnic cleanings and sending people to concentration camps for being pro-union or similar stances are a world apart in differences.[/QUOTE] Like I said in the post you just quoted, the reason that propaganda spread was because of misinformation, and the misinformation could not be disproven because the Nazis [B]CENSORED[/B] media and thought. I'm just going to quote my previous post at this point since you elected to just ignore it: [quote]Do you know why that misinformation worked? It's because his regime was notorious for censorship and the banning of books and other media that went against Nazi ideals. That does not apply today. If I told you that Jews are genetically inferior, you could pull your smartphone out and prove me wrong in 3 seconds flat. 1933 Germany is no where close to 2016 Germany. [/quote]

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429687]Surprise, a lot of people support Nazi Germany without really understanding the extent of the Holocaust, and for good reason. All things considered, Nazi rule was a great boon for the country. As a European with strong opinions on the matter, it's absolutely dumbfounding how little you actually seem to understand in regards to the context of these events[/QUOTE] Who are not nazis? Even with economic progress, the holocaust is too big to simply ignore. Even if that's what holocaust deniers do. [QUOTE=AaronM202;51429702]So tell them the truth, dont ban the opposing viewpoint, god. What do i look like, stupid? Obviously more, but he didnt rise to power BECAUSE of the hatred of Jews, it was part of his plan when the country was in shambles, he used them as a stepladder and continued to use them as a rallying point for a hurt country. Like shit man, im bad with history but you need to crack open a book.[/QUOTE] Well, it isn't about Hitler or about him coming to power. It's about the spread of hate, which he did. Regardless if it was a stepladder or not.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429728]Hate spreads by being told to people. Far from everyone will be convinced but some people can be. That's how nazism still hasn't died out. We stop it from spreading by making it illegal to spread it. Atleast it will spread less, which is still good.[/QUOTE] We've said this 9 times, hate does not spread. [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51429609] People always have this misconception that hate spreads. It doesn't. If I tell you "We should kill all Niggers because they're the inferior race!", does that suddenly mean that you agree with me, or any other person who heard it agrees with me? Of course not. The world is full of people who have free thought and we live in an age where we have the entirety of human knowledge accessible in one's pocket. Nobody is going to be swayed by overhearing a bigot on the street. People are dumb and thats just a fact of life; people being racist or denying historical events is not grounds to fine and jail people. You're banning steak because infants can't chew it. [/QUOTE] Are you just closing your eyes and covering your ears because you're being confronted with differing opinions? [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;51429770]Who are not nazis? Even with economic progress, the holocaust is too big to simply ignore. Even if that's what holocaust deniers do. Well, it isn't about Hitler or about him coming to power. It's about the spread of hate, which he did. Regardless if it was a stepladder or not.[/QUOTE] Please for the love of christ and all that is holy, read my goddamn post about Hitler and propaganda.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51429719]Because he was IN POWER, he had that influence and control. Modern nazis and racist groups dont, they're mocked.[/QUOTE] Even if not in power, hate spreads. Leading to more nazis, causing more problems even when not in power. I don't see how one can deny that.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429775]Even if not in power, hate spreads. Leading to more nazis, causing more problems even when not in power. I don't see how one can deny that.[/QUOTE] Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Everyone is explaining to you that you're wrong on this but you're ignoring it.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429775]Even if not in power, hate spreads. Leading to more nazis, causing more problems even when not in power. I don't see how one can deny that.[/QUOTE] We have disproven this to you a dozen times in this thread. You are literally ignoring every word that we are saying. I don't know why you're such a big advocate of anti-hate censorship, you don't listen to a fucking word anyone says to begin with.

[QUOTE=Amakir;51429738]Nazism spreads because poor people are frustrated and it's easier to blame others for their problems rather than dealing with it headfirst. A lot of neo-nazis are usually poor lower-middle class people with crappy education and that can easily make one depressed, especially if you feel that you have no power to change anything thus it's easier to blame jews and immigrants for your problems, to have an actual enemy.[/QUOTE] Nazism gets to them, because people are spreading it to them. They don't just wake up one day and suddenly are nazis. Laws like this helps to stop the spreading. [QUOTE=AaronM202;51429741]Whats fucked up is you worrying more about statistics than people.[/QUOTE] They are still neo-nazis, i'm worried about people becoming nazis and jews being victims today.¨ I'm still reading all your posts, i may not have come to some of your arguments yet. I'm coming to it.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429791] They are still neo-nazis, i'm worried about people becoming nazis and jews being victims today.[/QUOTE] "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.".

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429756]No I totally agree the Holocaust has had its fair share of global effects, but RB88 boiling it down to death toll is extremely indicative of how totally deluded he is[/QUOTE] Well, not gonna argue with you there.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51429754]Meaningless, because its all a matter of perspective. To the eyes of a neo-nazi, these laws are harming them, while laws banning black people from speaking would be preventing the spread of whatever it is they think would spread, iunno, ebonics or whatever the fuck they call it.[/QUOTE] We are not having a black problem, we are having a neo-nazi problem though. So it's not something, i worry about or think will ever be an issue. Even if you have a deeper point with the example. [QUOTE=AaronM202;51429761]And what makes holocaust denial bans more practical? [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] Wait hold up are you saying there isnt specific evidence backing up 9/11.[/QUOTE] No, certainly not. Of course, there is evidence. You can just look it up on video. Holocaust denial being easier to ban, due to being a specific event with more limited scope. Compared to all the consequences of 9/11. [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51429763]Like I said in the post you just quoted, the reason that propaganda spread was because of misinformation, and the misinformation could not be disproven because the Nazis [B]CENSORED[/B] media and thought. I'm just going to quote my previous post at this point since you elected to just ignore it:[/QUOTE] Misinformation is the same as hate, since it's what is causing it. [QUOTE=AaronM202;51429786]Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Everyone is explaining to you that you're wrong on this but you're ignoring it.[/QUOTE] If I say "jews are bad, we should do something about it *insert bad stuff here*" and you are convinced by it, hasn't hate spread then? That's my definition of hate.