'Nazi Grandma' Handed New Prison Sentence by German Court - Polidicks

[QUOTE=RB33;51429791]Nazism gets to them, because people are spreading it to them. They don't just wake up one day and suddenly are nazis. Laws like this helps to stop the spreading.[/QUOTE] And if nazism didn't get to them they'd find other shit to blame others for. As someone who was, and still is in a position of poverty and uneducation I used to blame tons of people and groups for my problems but I was never involved in organised groups or any nazi bullshit. If you ban free speech nazis are not gonna disappear and pointless hatred won't suddenly cease to exist. Neo-nazis will go underground and be validated in their thoughts because it's been suppressed by the state. Besides, nazis are not the only groups who hate jews. There are tons of extremist muslim organisations that hates the jews just as much as the nazis did.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51429789]We have disproven this to you a dozen times in this thread. You are literally ignoring every word that we are saying. I don't know why you're such a big advocate of anti-hate censorship, you don't listen to a fucking word anyone says to begin with.[/QUOTE] I'm reading everything you're saying and i try to understand your points but i'm not convinced. That's just how it is. That doesn't mean i ignore you. [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=AaronM202;51429796]"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.".[/QUOTE] "Giving holocaust deniers a fine makes you a nazi, if you keep at it for too long." Or did i somehow mistake your point? [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Amakir;51429823]And if nazism didn't get to them they'd find other shit to blame others for. As someone who was, and still is in a position of poverty and uneducation I used to blame tons of people and groups for my problems but I was never involved in organised groups or any nazi bullshit. If you ban free speech nazis are not gonna disappear and pointless hatred won't suddenly cease to exist. Neo-nazis will go underground and be validated in their thoughts because it's been suppressed by the state. Besides, nazis are not the only groups who hate jews. There are tons of extremist muslim organisations that hates the jews just as much as the nazis did.[/QUOTE] We are not seeing nazis disappearing anytime soon but the point is getting less of them and having them not spreading their message. If people pick a more moderate group to channel their poverty and uneducation, that's only good. The same goes for extremist muslims.

No, his point is that total subjugation of a minority for the sake of the greater good is exactly the frame of mind that allowed for the Holocaust to happen [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] Yeah because snuffing out an extremist minority is gonna lead them to more moderate outlets You're fucking clueless dude

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429839]No, his point is that total subjugation of a minority for the sake of the greater good is exactly the frame of mind that allowed for the Holocaust to happen[/QUOTE] It's still comparing giving a fine to concentration camps. They are not comparable. [QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429839][editline]26th November 2016[/editline] Yeah because snuffing out an extremist minority is gonna lead them to more moderate outlets You're fucking clueless dude[/QUOTE] It's about getting them before they become nazis. After that anti-hate speech is not going to help much, then you need education instead.

Do you seriously think that the Holocaust started with concentration camps Speaking of failures of the education system... [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] Like seriously all of your arguments are cemented by a total misunderstanding of historical context, if you want to ignore that then good for you, but you look like an absolute Neanderthal right now

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429851]Do you seriously think that the Holocaust started with concentration camps Speaking of failures of the education system... [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] Like seriously all of your arguments are cemented by a total misunderstanding of historical context, if you want to ignore that then good for you, but you look like an absolute Neanderthal right now[/QUOTE] You think giving holocaust deniers a fine can lead up to them being put into concentration camps, because then you will look even worse.

I never once said that? All I'm saying is that you're ignoring that this kind of mentality enables exactly the same situation. The fact that you only consider 9/11s relevance based on the death count shows you've got no thought processes on things beyond a very shallow surface level, something you've failed to disprove over the course of this thread. Now let me ask you, do you think a large majority of Germans who supported the Reich hated Jews, or perhaps they complacently accepted the information the government spoon fed them in the name of 'the greater good'

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429851]Do you seriously think that the Holocaust started with concentration camps Speaking of failures of the education system... [/QUOTE] It did, actually. Dachau opened in early 1933, not long after the Nazis took power. There were factors before (like open discrimination and violence), but at a state level concentration camps were there from the beginning.

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;51429886]It did, actually. Dachau opened in early 1933, not long after the Nazis took power. There were factors before (like open discrimination and violence), but at a state level concentration camps were there from the beginning.[/QUOTE] I mean in the context of public perception, it's not that camps opened and people said 'oh Jews are bad'. That being said, I had no idea Dachau was that early, tmyk!

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429873]I never once said that? All I'm saying is that you're ignoring that this kind of mentality enables exactly the same situation. The fact that you only consider 9/11s relevance based on the death count shows you've got no thought processes on things beyond a very shallow surface level, something you've failed to disprove over the course of this thread. Now let me ask you, do you think a large majority of Germans who supported the Reich hated Jews, or perhaps they complacently accepted the information the government spoon fed them in the name of 'the greater good'[/QUOTE] I only talked about the halocaust and 9/11 in terms of what could be made criminal to deny. 9/11 as was said has a much larger scope is thus harder to make criminal, if not only the event itself and not everything caused by it. Some hated jews, probably a minority. Most accepted the lies, yes. By accepting those lies, the hate had spread. From the nazi regime to the average citizen.

So you agree that getting spoon-fed censored viewpoints by the government led to the scenario presented, but refute that you accepting the spoon-feeding of information by the government in this case could reflect a similar situation [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] i think I broke him

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51429527]You are advocating for economically devastating elderly people in the brink of death who were still holding to a flawed belief. You are no different than the gestapo.[/QUOTE] Godwin just walked a full circle. It's a beautiful thing to behold.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429728]Hate spreads by being told to people. Far from everyone will be convinced but some people can be. That's how nazism still hasn't died out. We stop it from spreading by making it illegal to spread it. Atleast it will spread less, which is still good.[/QUOTE] Are you seriously that retarded, I suppose you support internet censorship as well since there are hundreds if not thousands of places where antisemitism is perfectly acceptable on the internet. Even if you was to somehow magically suppress all talk of it in public (good fucking luck) do you really think that will work, most people don't suddenly decide to become antisemitic just because of something they've read, watched or heard, rather I'd say the vast majority are influenced by their parents, making it illegal simply forces them underground reinforcing their beliefs and makes it all the more likely they'd take action on those beliefs, censorship never works.

[QUOTE=wystan;51429021]But why? Do other people's opinions bother you that much that you feel it's acceptable to punish them for offending you?[/QUOTE] It's more a matter of education than censorship. People hold opinions that are detrimental to society and could be fixed with a healthy dose of facts. This includes stuff like "The earth is flat" and "The speed of light isn't a constant" and "the holocaust never happened" and "torture works" If these wrong ideas were genuinely allowed to spread without any form of control then you could lead to Donald Trump getting elected, God forbid. Obviously a glaring slippery slope there. edit I didnt think this post through that much, but the core of it is still something like "something actually has to be done about genuinely harmful opinions"

[QUOTE=EcksDee;51430832]It's more a matter of education than censorship. People hold opinions that are detrimental to society and could be fixed with a healthy dose of facts. This includes stuff like "The earth is flat" and "The speed of light isn't a constant" and "the holocaust never happened" and "torture works" If these wrong ideas were genuinely allowed to spread without any form of control then you could lead to Donald Trump getting elected, God forbid. Obviously a glaring slippery slope there. edit I didnt think this post through that much, but the core of it is still something like "something actually has to be done about genuinely harmful opinions"[/QUOTE] Education isn't a fix either, despite the massive amount of evidence that the earth is round people who think the earth is flat just choose to ignore it, you can spend all day trying to convince them and not get anywhere. The best thing to do is to not do anything, unless there is an actual risk of a crime being committed.

Everyone's on the self righteous bandwagon trying to prove they're good and moral letting everyone have a fair go with their freedom of speech. The world isn't fair in the end. What we have is a privilege, to communicate our thoughts. Those privileges can be taken by a change of a law. There would be rebellion and civil war but it could happen. The lady had her sentencing coming from her previous actions. They could've reworded her sentencing to incitement at least to avoid this moral dilemma. Attempting to start a riot is straight up illegal despite your stance on this matter. [QUOTE=AaronM202;51429491] I however disagree in policing thoughts and opinions, no matter how vulgar, crass, offensive, or factually wrong they may be. [/QUOTE] I could call you a fuckhead and I'd get banned for it. You do not support how the mods operate on this forum? The door is over there.

[QUOTE=Chryseus;51430922]Education isn't a fix either, despite the massive amount of evidence that the earth is round people who think the earth is flat just choose to ignore it, you can spend all day trying to convince them and not get anywhere. The best thing to do is to not do anything, unless there is an actual risk of a crime being committed.[/QUOTE] Well what you could do is ban it from being taught in schools and maybe even publicly ridicule (maybe too strong a word) everyone that holds that position. Positive results there with holocaust deniers for example, but you still now have a man that holds an EVEN MORE dangerous position than holocaust denial in the most powerful office on earth, being global warming and US president respectively. And there's still idiots who deny evolution and want it banned from public schools (WHICH WOULD PROBABLY HAPPEN IF EDUCATION WAS UP TO THE STATES)

[QUOTE=wrv451nlp;51429387]People cant honestly be defending actually throwing someone in prison just for saying dumb shit, Right? I can understand a fee and a possibly therapy, But incarceration for misguided beliefs? And they're the ones calling her a nazi.[/QUOTE] Even here in the US the government has always affirmed that there are certain compelling reasons to infringe on freedom of speech. Germany and its government have decided that they have a compelling reason to make holocaust denial a criminal offense. personally i think global warming denial should be criminal in our legislators because they're willfully ignoring the common good but that's because they're being criminally irresponsible in their posts. oklahoma has turned into the most seismically active region in the country and their politicians there are willfully ignoring all the evidence to pander to oil interests who save a few thousand $s by just injecting their fracking waste instead of treating it responsibly.

I understand people saying you shouldn't criminalize thought crime but come on, this is germany. they're a little bit self concious about what happens when the right wing get a little too excited about politics.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51429929]So you agree that getting spoon-fed censored viewpoints by the government led to the scenario presented, but refute that you accepting the spoon-feeding of information by the government in this case could reflect a similar situation [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] i think I broke him[/QUOTE] We are not being spoon fed information. I think it's saying much that you people are afraid of this. Because i'm not, we have trust in the government here. We actually don't think they may go "those people are bad, let's start up some concentration camps" one day. Your average european democracy is very far away from Nazi Germany and is not really becoming more like it. [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chryseus;51430801]Are you seriously that retarded, I suppose you support internet censorship as well since there are hundreds if not thousands of places where antisemitism is perfectly acceptable on the internet. Even if you was to somehow magically suppress all talk of it in public (good fucking luck) do you really think that will work, most people don't suddenly decide to become antisemitic just because of something they've read, watched or heard, rather I'd say the vast majority are influenced by their parents, making it illegal simply forces them underground reinforcing their beliefs and makes it all the more likely they'd take action on those beliefs, censorship never works.[/QUOTE] If less people are exposed to it, less people also become nazis/holocaust deniers.

[QUOTE=TheGronk;51430987]Everyone's on the self righteous bandwagon trying to prove they're good and moral letting everyone have a fair go with their freedom of speech. The world isn't fair in the end. What we have is a privilege, to communicate our thoughts. Those privileges can be taken by a change of a law. There would be rebellion and civil war but it could happen. The lady had her sentencing coming from her previous actions. They could've reworded her sentencing to incitement at least to avoid this moral dilemma. Attempting to start a riot is straight up illegal despite your stance on this matter. I could call you a fuckhead and I'd get banned for it. You do not support how the mods operate on this forum? The door is over there.[/QUOTE] The ability to speak your thoughts, however stupid they may be isnt a privilege, you're delusional.

[QUOTE=RB33;51429812] Misinformation is the same as hate, since it's what is causing it. [/QUOTE] Ok, it's great that you think that but it does nothing at all to disprove what I said. If you go into my post and replace "misinformation" with "hate", my point is still valid. [QUOTE=RB33;51429824]I'm reading everything you're saying and i try to understand your points but i'm not convinced. That's just how it is. That doesn't mean i ignore you. [/QUOTE] See, denying what I'm telling you is a lot like holocaust denial; it doesn't matter if it convinces you or if you believe in it, it's still true. You have no comprehension on how the Third Reich rose to power or how propaganda and misinformation works.

[QUOTE=RB33;51431203]We are not being spoon fed information. I think it's saying much that you people are afraid of this. Because i'm not, we have trust in the government here. We actually don't think they may go "those people are bad, let's start up some concentration camps" one day. Your average european democracy is very far away from Nazi Germany and is not really becoming more like it. [editline]26th November 2016[/editline] .[/QUOTE] You literally said that you'd rather be spoonfed information by the government than spoonfed Nazi ideals Which raises the point again that you clearly find the people of Europe incapable of forming their own opinions on matters and dissenting views -must- be subverted

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;51431459]The ability to speak your thoughts, however stupid they may be isnt a privilege, you're delusional.[/QUOTE] It is very well a privilege. There are people out there that cannot communicate due to physical impairments. It'd be like losing your legs. You'd appreciate the ability to walk then huh? I'm one of those people that appreciate the little things in life because it's all privileges.

[QUOTE=RB33;51431203]We are not being spoon fed information. I think it's saying much that you people are afraid of this. Because i'm not, we have trust in the government here.[/quote] It doesn't matter if you do or don't trust your government, they're still censoring your thoughts and thats fucked up. [QUOTE=RB33;51431203] We actually don't think they may go "those people are bad, let's start up some concentration camps" one day. Your average european democracy is very far away from Nazi Germany and is not really becoming more like it.[/QUOTE] See, here you go again with your complete lack of understanding of how the Third Reich worked and how it came into power. 1933 didn't come around and the Nazis just popped into existence from the ether. It was [i][b]gradual[/i][/b]. It started with things like censorship, thought policing, and the banning of controversial media. It played on ignorance and distrust that already existed, and the people of Germany thought it was a good thing, just like you think this censorship is a good thing. Starting an evil government like Fascist Germany did not happen overnight, even from 1933 onwards it still took 6 years to build its standing army into the greatest fighting force on earth, and it took that long to condition it's people to be ready for the brutalities of war. You really just don't have a damned clue what you're talking about man.

[QUOTE=TheGronk;51431526]It is very well a privilege. There are people out there that cannot communicate due to physical impairments. It'd be like losing your legs. You'd appreciate the ability to walk then huh? I'm one of those people that appreciate the little things in life because it's all privileges.[/QUOTE] By your argument, there should be a restriction placed on dancing because there exists people who physically cannot dance. That's ridiculous. Laws that restrict speech aren't put in place for the sake of privilege or for compensation of the impaired. They're put in place to control and manipulate thought.

My grandma told me this, Auswich is nothing compared to what happened in the Birkenau camp. Anyone who knows more about this?

[QUOTE=DickCoco;51431561]My grandma told me this, Auswich is nothing compared to what happened in the Birkenau camp. Anyone who knows more about this?[/QUOTE] Birkenau was the extermination camp section of Auschwitz, also known as Auschwitz-II, while Auschwitz-I was just a concentration camp. I'm assuming that this is what she meant.

[QUOTE=Boaraes;51431553]By your argument, there should be a restriction placed on dancing because there exists people who physically cannot dance. That's ridiculous. Laws that restrict speech aren't put in place for the sake of privilege or for compensation of the impaired. They're put in place to control and manipulate thought.[/QUOTE] My reply was in response to SpaceGhost's reply. Has nothing to do with the law that was broken in Germany. My stance on that situation is in my original post. [QUOTE=TheGronk;51430987] The lady had her sentencing coming from her previous actions. They could've reworded her sentencing to incitement at least to avoid this moral dilemma. Attempting to start a riot is straight up illegal despite your stance on this matter. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TheGronk;51431644]My reply was in response to SpaceGhost's reply. Has nothing to do with the law that was broken in Germany. My stance on that situation is in my original post.[/QUOTE] Your claim was that speech is a privilege. I'm saying that's absurd.