ISIS religious police 'kidnapped' a day after force commander found beheaded - Polidicks

Torture shouldn't be accepted at all regardless of who is on the receiving end and what they've done, it's fucked up and unjustifiable. It does nothing but give pleasure to disturbing sadists.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;46883549]no, the idea that interrogation implies torture is a result of shit illegal interrogation methods. Telling a pow they will be held until such time as they provide enough information for them to be exchanged with the enemy is plenty enough to get many talking[/QUOTE] Oh, so torture methods of interrogation exist just because people who do that are bloodthirsty maniacs, they should've instead told the prisoner that they better tell shit. Or else. Or else they'll get food, shelter, safety indefinitely etc. God damn, how stupid humanity has been all these thousands of years... No one ever tried to just ask nicely, explain to a prisoner something that they already know and then they tell you everything you want to know. Except militia/resistance group don't have means to hold you until you start speaking, and their enemies know that. You guys with this "torture is never acceptable" have a really strange view on this. You apply modern western values, values of places with modern justice system, with due process, with courts to a [b]shithole[/b] where the closest thing resembling 'law' are fucking savage occupational forces themselves. Standards widely accepted in civilized world don't apply to a war of annihilation. Your approach is dictated by necessity and practicality instead of abstract moral values. Sure beheadings and torture is despicable. But if it works for people's survival and future liberation (i.e. it damages the enemy), so be it. And if it didn't work, people wouldn't be doing it. "Torture doesn't work", well duh, if it's still around - it fucking does. So does killing people. We don't do that because we know it's wrong and damages the society in the long term, but guess what resistance members can't afford during the war? Thinking long-term when their people are being murdered, their children are being raped, maimed and murdered, their wives, daughters, mothers are being raped and murdered and sold to slavery.

[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;46883529]what are you even trying to say with this post if your flagdog is to be believed you even live in the same country as me? yeah it does put you on their level when there's much less brutal and barbaric options you could consider in their place. the fact that you're comparing my viewpoint to a video game when this is an actual real-life moral issue is just mindboggling[/QUOTE] Its called putting yourself into other peoples shoes. I could easily say "dont stoop to their level" but im over here sitting in safety while they are over there in danger. If I was in the same situation I wouldn't hesitate to do the same shit to them as they did to my friends and family and to hell with someone from some far off land telling me I shouldn't do it.

[QUOTE=Solomon;46882420]Americans discrediting ISIS by any means necessary.[/QUOTE] do you support ISIS? If you do then I find it hard to think of any additional set of beliefs you could hold that doesn't just make me hate you. [editline]8th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Monkey san;46882614]idk, i dont like you [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why Reply" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Oh, cool. BDA is a mod again.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;46883549]no, the idea that interrogation implies torture is a result of shit illegal interrogation methods. Telling a pow they will be held until such time as they provide enough information for them to be exchanged with the enemy is plenty enough to get many talking[/QUOTE] Oh yeah I'm sure your average Jihadist will be big on that.

what kind of torture though im curious.

[QUOTE=feloix13;46885355]what kind of torture though im curious.[/QUOTE] haha just for fun haha

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;46882596]it still sounds really shitty. blood for blood just makes everything worse. while it might appease a really base desire for revenge, long term it doesn't do anything productive. capture them? sure. interrogate them? sure. hold them as a prisoner? sure. but torturing and beheading? the group did the exact same thing as ISIS does. its like inglorious basterds. it sure is a fun as fuck movie, but i wouldn't want actual soldiers doing stuff like that for my cause[/QUOTE] I don't know what It's like in a warzone, do you? Maybe the people that did this are civilian insurgents fighting ISIS, and have lost family/friends. You'd tend not to care too much after that.

If theyre not running around slaughtering innocents, theyre not as bad as IS, and thats at least a step up.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46883052]If your enemy is fighting dirty and has the advantage because of it then on a practical level you can't afford to not stoop down to their level and fight dirtier. It's not like these people can afford drones and surgical strikes. It's also fair to say these people are more focused on trying to not get fucked by IS than on being righteous paragons of virtue when it comes to fighting religious nutjobs. I'd also argue that people who have willingly taken the decision to forego any sort of sense or mercy and have stooped down to selling women as sex slaves, torturing random people and beheading people on camera do not deserve to be fought with any sort of humane treatment. They're getting what's coming to them.[/QUOTE] This is the way of thinking that ends with massacres.

[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;46883373]what makes going to such extreme lengths (and putting yourselves on the same level as the people you call monsters) necessary though? and really saying i'm on a high horse for not having this bloodlust which lots of SH members seem to have is just silly.[/QUOTE] There is actually great value in torturing and beheading those who torture and behead innocent people. A lesson. That these people might gain some useful perspective before they're put down, that before they leave the world they understand what suffering they have subjected other people to. I for one am a great advocate of education.

[QUOTE=gudman;46882644]You realize that this implies torture, right? Because you sure as fuck ain't going to get anything from fanatics with "dear sir, could you please disclose the location of XYZ?". And what to do with them anyway? It's not like any militia/resistance group out there has this much spare resources to hold and care for prisoners. Beheading might be a bit too much, but disposing of them is the best solution solution. Second best is releasing them, which I might imagine, doesn't hold much water.[/QUOTE] Honestly, I think the worst situation you could ever possibly be in is being associated with something like the IS and then get captured by enemies not associated with a Western standing force. Because even with a Western standing force like an army there's a chance someone's flown off the handle. When you subject the human mind to horrors upon horrors, eventually you end up with the people becoming numb to it, and then the psychosis sets in. So imagine yourself being taken prisoner by someone completely calm. But they're not calm because of any level of restraint. They're calm because they don't feel anything anymore. Because they know exactly what they're going to do to you. Because they know, for everything they've had to see, you're going to experience first hand. It doesn't even necessarily have to be about getting information.

[QUOTE=Riutet;46886052]There is actually great value in torturing and beheading those who torture and behead innocent people. A lesson. That these people might gain some useful perspective before they're put down, that before they leave the world they understand what suffering they have subjected other people to. I for one am a great advocate of education.[/QUOTE] Yes, they're going to learn so much when they're dead, clearly. Stop hiding behind some thin veil of "for the greater good". Torture is not a just action, it's a grotesque thing that should never be used by people who claim to be civilised. By people who claim to be better. If you capture and torture these guys, you're just going to piss their friends off even more, they've already dehumanised everybody who isn't them, they have absolutely zero qualms with killing more innocent people. We are not them, we should not stoop to their level. Despite their actions we should not dehumanise them as it just gives us justification to become as barbaric as them for no gain. We can fight them in ways that aren't straight up retarded.

[QUOTE=Riutet;46886052]There is actually great value in torturing and beheading those who torture and behead innocent people. A lesson. That these people might gain some useful perspective before they're put down, that before they leave the world they understand what suffering they have subjected other people to. I for one am a great advocate of education.[/QUOTE] are you some kind of batman villain

[QUOTE=Riutet;46886052]There is actually great value in torturing and beheading those who torture and behead innocent people. A lesson. That these people might gain some useful perspective before they're put down, that before they leave the world they understand what suffering they have subjected other people to. I for one am a great advocate of education.[/QUOTE] i really wish people would stop making these thinly-veiled sociopathic posts because they're very clearly the words of someone who constantly fantasizes about killing people "for justice". not only is it really fucking cringe-worthy but it's just outright creepy.

[QUOTE=SoaringScout;46886746]are you some kind of batman villain[/QUOTE] What would make you think that Bats?

[QUOTE=Riutet;46886052]There is actually great value in torturing and beheading those who torture and behead innocent people. A lesson. That these people might gain some useful perspective before they're put down, that before they leave the world they understand what suffering they have subjected other people to. I for one am a great advocate of education.[/QUOTE] Holy moly. This is a pretty borked perspective. Do you not see the cyclical nature of such a policy?

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46886656] [b]We[/b] are not them, we should not stoop to their level. Despite their actions [b]we[/b] should not dehumanise them as it just gives [b]us[/b] justification to become as barbaric as them for no gain. [b]We[/b] can fight them in ways that aren't straight up retarded.[/QUOTE] There's no 'we' about it. It's not your people getting killed, tortured, sold to slavery, not mine either. I'm sure you'd personally be completely cool-headed if, say, you've lost your kids to some militant religious police that decided that they're better off being sex-slaves to someone from their leadership than being raised by infidel, if you saw your friend's wife get raped and then killed, but not everyone's like that. Don't forget that you're typing that in front of your computer, in your home or your flat, with no danger of being prosecuted just for as much as looking funny, not even speaking about anything 'sinful' in the eyes of maniacs, and with nowhere to fucking go. Don't forget that the closest you'll ever be to their shoes is being sent there as a soldier, and even then you'll always know that some day you'll return home, to your family, to your civilization. And you'll have supplies and more or less safe base of operations, so your exposure will be as limited as it can possibly be to avoid stressing you out too much because you have competent commanding officers. None of this can be said about resistance. I don't welcome beheadings and torture, no one does as much as you'd probably like to continue being morally right, but reading these "I condemn these actions, people shouldn't do bad things" about resistance fighters in the middle of war of annihilation is just mind boggling.

[QUOTE=gudman;46884431]Oh, so torture methods of interrogation exist just because people who do that are bloodthirsty maniacs, they should've instead told the prisoner that they better tell shit. Or else. Or else they'll get food, shelter, safety indefinitely etc. God damn, how stupid humanity has been all these thousands of years... No one ever tried to just ask nicely, explain to a prisoner something that they already know and then they tell you everything you want to know. Except militia/resistance group don't have means to hold you until you start speaking, and their enemies know that.[/quote] If you think that torture exists solely as a means of getting information, you're woefully incorrect. Any analysis of its history and use demonstrates that its primary purpose is to inflict suffering on people as a form of retribution for being the enemy, as well as creating a sense of the "other" in war contexts that eases soldiers into dehumanization of their enemy which allows them to perpetrate acts that would disturb everyday civilians. torture is an emotional tool and is designed to inflict terror not only on the victim but the enemy. it actually tends to be less accurate than other forms of interrogation past a certain point, has one of the highest rates of misinformation simply due to how torture functions. [quote]You guys with this "torture is never acceptable" have a really strange view on this. You apply modern western values, values of places with modern justice system, with due process, with courts to a [b]shithole[/b] where the closest thing resembling 'law' are fucking savage occupational forces themselves. Standards widely accepted in civilized world don't apply to a war of annihilation. Your approach is dictated by necessity and practicality instead of abstract moral values. Sure beheadings and torture is despicable. But if it works for people's survival and future liberation (i.e. it damages the enemy), so be it. And if it didn't work, people wouldn't be doing it. "Torture doesn't work", well duh, if it's still around - it fucking does. So does killing people. We don't do that because we know it's wrong and damages the society in the long term, but guess what resistance members can't afford during the war? Thinking long-term when their people are being murdered, their children are being raped, maimed and murdered, their wives, daughters, mothers are being raped and murdered and sold to slavery.[/QUOTE] you're right, I come from a "western perspective". however I also come from the perspective of a professional who's dedicated to war and conflict resolution academia; torture as a concept is not simply a "western perspective" - there's been constant debates regarding the role of human rights legislation and the geneva conventions in eastern states. however, when you look into the topic, it's primarily heads of state that are the ones pushing forward this idea - heads of state that are often involved in less than legal activity. if you poll their populations as well, read the work of their journalists, their academics, and their public, that same idea of the "western" perspective being different in regards to human rights totally fades away. people want the same things. physical integrity rights are the least contentious rights in the world. this stretches from the most developed to the least developed states. and on the issue of practicality, sure, I understand. I understand completely why torturers do what they do. That's my work. And what I'd say in that regard: that's not an excuse, that's a reason. a subtle, but critical difference. you can understand someone's reasoning behind what they do from an empathetic perspective, getting into their heads, and figuring out why they would cross that line. but don't excuse it. you know that torture isn't right. the final portion of your post relates to this one as well: [QUOTE=SpaceGhost;46885575]I don't know what It's like in a warzone, do you? Maybe the people that did this are civilian insurgents fighting ISIS, and have lost family/friends. You'd tend not to care too much after that.[/QUOTE] so i'll respond to both. I cannot say that I know what it's like in a warzone - I've never been in one, but (not to flaunt my work) I have a damn good idea of it. i've read hundreds of in depth first hand accounts of victims perpetrators and prisoners alike, from the most mundane of crimes (getting clocked in the gut as you're getting off a bus) to the most absolute brutal. i've watched and analysed countless hours of footage, prepped witnesses for trial, the whole shebang. i've shuddered in horror and felt rage in my work that i've never felt before, which pales in comparison to what the actual individuals went through. i know refugees from around the world and various conflicts who've lost people, and yet, none of them advocate torture. a perfect example is one of my coworkers. a syrian man. grew up in damascus. multiple family members and friends killed, some by Assad's forces and some by ISIS forces. he has every reason to be angry, to be furious, to reach out and hit back with as much violent fervor as he can. but he knows that in the scheme of things, escalating the violence in Syria to such brutal levels will only raise the level of violence, which will come right back around to him and his family. so he left. he saved up every penny he could, and he left. he came here, made money, and brought his family here. he's dedicating his life to fighting the violence in Syria, but in a legal way. He wants to bring justice - not revenge - to his country.

[QUOTE=croguy;46882403]His severed head was reportedly found with a cigarette in its mouth and close by was a note with a mocking reference to the fact that smoking is a sin in the eyes of the religious police.[/QUOTE] Now [i]that's[/i] radical Islam!