Drag queens banned from Pride event 'because they may offend transgender people' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DohEntertainmen;48261406]When people cared for what mattered, not social conventions that had already been solved long ago. You could bother to argue, instead of ignoring me like they taught you to.[/QUOTE] I can't believe the trans people taught me to ignore you I should thank them

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;48261390]im sorry is your name dracula are you a vampire how many thousands of years have you been walking the earth if you remember society before the invention of money?[/QUOTE] Joke around, but you know the facts, the truth. None of this should matter. People are too easily offended when they don't know what is offensive. And no, money is not the issue. The fact we've become coaxed in this "Cold War", and think stuff like bathrooms signs and dropping toast is to drown for. [QUOTE=Pascall;48261397]do you read your own posts when you reply or....[/QUOTE] Yes. Do you? I'd appreciate something resembling an argument from you. [editline]21st July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sand Castle;48261434]be suspicious of [I]the man[/I] drop out of school kony was innocent[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Pascall;48261435]I can't believe the trans people taught me to ignore you I should thank them[/QUOTE] Funny, but you should know what I mean. If someone offends you, don't even bother, right? If you didn't believe that, you'd bother to argue with me on why this stuff is an issue these days, when it never really mattered in the first place.

[QUOTE=butre;48261411]no? drag queens are just theater people who play exaggerated female characters. they're not mocking anyone. Female drag queens can exist too, they call them faux queens.[/QUOTE] Are Drag Kings a thing?

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;48261493]Are Drag Kings a thing?[/QUOTE] they sure are, as are faux kings

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;48261493]Are Drag Kings a thing?[/QUOTE] yes

It always disgusts me how other trans people will treat the drag community. For starters, there are a not insignificant number of members of the community who do actually internalize aspects of the characters they portray and show signs of transgenderism outside of their shows. There is a reason that many of them will continue to wear makeup and/or clothing from the opposite gender even outside of their shows as a part of their daily life, and continue to identify with their stage names regularly outside the performances. For many of them, its an outlet where their gender identity can be expressed outwardly and people will accept them and applaud them for it, where they will feel safe in doing so. And I think thats part of the problem, they can do it and have people applaud them, they can do it and feel a little safe about it, while others in the transcommunity can't. There is a reason this image used to live at the top of CDTG OP. Note the little line in yellow at the bottom of it: [img]http://lgbtqcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/transgender-umbrella.jpg[/img] Its a weird shifting set of goal posts for some, and raises a question of how others in the transcommunity consider what determines if someone is truly trans or not. There are many who simply want to start dressing as the opposite gender and be referred to as the opposite gender. Are they not trans? I have a friend who I've known for almost two years who only just a few days ago said she wants to transition and asked for advice on it. She just wants to start being referred to as a woman and maybe start hormone therapy, she doesn't even want to change how she dresses and didn't like the idea of doing that. Am I suppose to go tell her she isn't really trans? This awful, exclusionary side of the transcommunity. We always talk about how "Its LGBT, but only the LGB gets any recognition and the T always get left behind!" and then some parts of it do stuff like this. It makes many of us no better than those who hate us or see us as crazy. Its frustrating and disappointing. I'm gonna quote a few posts from where I had this argument in CDTG at the start of the year: [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon]As yes, transgenderism, an exclusivist club where we have to maintain an elitist sense of being THE disenfranchised minority. And not one of many. And where attacking a rather related minority for not living up to our standards is acceptable.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon][QUOTE=Sansa Stark]Stop projecting. We're the laughing stock of everything, even Facepunch.[/QUOTE]So just being awful people who can't handle those who actually do fall under that same umbrella with us is supposed to help with that? [QUOTE]You mean the Weekend Transgender people? The people who are only transgender when they feel like it (i.e. bigender or whatever made up term you want to create)? Or the guys who like to dress up as girls in private to jack off?[/QUOTE]This is as bad as gays and lesbians who attack bisexuals for not being "real" and abuse them the same way they get abused. [QUOTE]We have a right to be pissed. Being exclusive is good practice when so many people want to hurt us.[/QUOTE]No its not, there aren't people actively looking to infiltrate us just to hurt us, they're more than happy to do it right to our faces. About the only ones who do that are those who are a part of the LGBT title, but attack others under it for some fictionalized slight. Instead of that whole solidarity and unity thing where we should be working to that common goal of equality, its becomes about tearing others down, including other minorities we should be working together with. It's not a fight or competition to see who has it worst or what group should carry the blame. Also, do you know what projecting even is?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon][QUOTE=T-Sonar.0]To be fair I don't like drag either. I don't view as a positive portrayal of transgenderism. To me it's treated as more like a joke.[/QUOTE]Its not to interact with or specifically deal with transgenderism at all. It exists as a manifestation of crossdressing/transvestisism, which themselves are still gender issues. They are not responsible for how society views them. Its not done just as a joke, its something they're actually really passionate about, and often ties in to deeper issues that genuinely do deal directly with transgenderism.[/QUOTE] Also here's a good one from Big Dumb American that I like: [QUOTE=Big Dumb American]Simultaneously claiming victimization of transgendered people while berating transgendered people isn't going to win you many friends.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;48261514]TEXT TEXT TEXT.... [img]http://lgbtqcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/transgender-umbrella.jpg[/img] [/QUOTE] This post... I can't agree more (LGBT Post of the year)

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48261255]So it seems to me that this is like blocking a guy in blackface from participating in a black rights march.[/QUOTE] why would you want someone in blackface marching in a black rights parade? first of all, i've never even heard of a black rights parade, and second, blackface is widely considered to be a racist thing, even if your intentions are good... just go as yourself and you'll be fine

[QUOTE=DohEntertainmen;48261382]No. Further back. Way back. Before Victoria. Politics are a sham. Nothing but doling the populous to distract from what matters. It was the Age of Empires; when people didn't need papers to sell drinks, and one man lead a nation, not many, for your information.[/QUOTE] Sir, you appear to have never picked up a textbook on history before. But more on topic: It seems like drag queens are a bit too wide of a group to generalize, and while yes I understand that some people may be offended, I think that barring them from pride events is a bit far. Also, drag queen and crossdresser should not be confused.

i remember my ex's LGBT dorm head was super nice to her all the time and fully supportive, but she despised him strictly because he was a drag queen and asked for support. Its disgusting how much infighting is in the LGBT crowd, especially when pansexuality is for some reason seen as a special snowflake to even bisexual people.

[QUOTE=DohEntertainmen;48261170]Because I for one think it's very silly, and refuse to acknowledge as anything official because of it. This shit used to be solved with simple therapy, but now people are cutting themselves up and taking pills that only serve to further damage their psyche. It's a madhouse. How? I'm not exactly using any fallacies.[/QUOTE] Is this how they teach people how to post? "I'm not using anything I found on yourlogicalfallacyis.com, I'm clearly good to go" Have you considered what you said is terrible

[QUOTE=DohEntertainmen;48261467] Yes. Do you? I'd appreciate something resembling an argument from you. Funny, but you should know what I mean. If someone offends you, don't even bother, right? If you didn't believe that, you'd bother to argue with me on why this stuff is an issue these days, when it never really mattered in the first place.[/QUOTE] no I do not know what you mean I don't "argue" about these things because your stance on trans people is based around outdated information that can easily be improved by reading current studies on trans people and learning about them rather than saddling them into a label of "people who are lying about themselves" which drifts dangerously into the similar territory of things like blatant homophobia. It's a bigoted and uneducated stance and I have zero time or patience to go into something that can be easily explained with research and an open mind, neither of which you possess the desire to access.

[QUOTE=nuttyboffin;48261431]That's ridiculous. I was at Bournemouth pride, they performed there and it was great. I can't get my head around why people dislike drag queens and the people who work as them. One of the bars I am down at weekly is the most popular gay bar in Bournemouth and it is staffed by 3 drag queens. and I am friends with 3 other ones. They have nothing against transgenders. I have yet to meet any who are. Males dressing up as females have been around for... 100's of years? In terms of entertainment for plays and so on, that's what drag queens do. Blame the media if anything for not being able to explain the difference between Cross-dressers, Transgenders and Drag Queens. I think it is pretty disgraceful for someone transgender to be so close minded and against someone else's enjoyment when they aren't setting out to hurt other people.[/QUOTE] Pretty much all this. Reading through this thread makes it sound like an American problem in how they are represented. In the UK it's been nothing but positive for everyone in my experiences with stuff like pantomimes and shows

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;48261514]It always disgusts me how other trans people will treat the drag community.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rangergxi;48261255]So it seems to me that this is like blocking a guy in blackface from participating in a black rights march.[/QUOTE] Should have probably learned more about the drag community instead of relying on stereotypes before making this comment. Still. It seems like drags are a caricature of T/C and bring about a pretty harmful stereotype thats probably caused T/C's quite a bit of problems in their own lives. I can see why they'd be pretty hostile to them.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48261642]Should have probably learned more about the drag community instead of relying on stereotypes before making this comment. Still. It seems like drags are a caricature of T/C and bring about a pretty harmful stereotype thats probably caused T/C's quite a bit of problems in their own lives. I can see why they'd be pretty hostile to them.[/QUOTE] I can understand where the hostility comes from too, but that doesn't make it justified. People shouldn't be barred from acting in certain ways just because it could reflect embarrassingly on someone else.

I guess I'm going to be the outlier here. I'm trans, and I think that drag queens are cool. I'm not offended by them in the least bit.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48261642]Should have probably learned more about the drag community instead of relying on stereotypes before making this comment. Still. It seems like drags are a caricature of T/C and bring about a pretty harmful stereotype thats probably caused T/C's quite a bit of problems in their own lives. I can see why they'd be pretty hostile to them.[/QUOTE]It really hasn't, and that can't really be blamed on them to begin with because they don't set out or do so in any way designed to be harmful. They can't control how others react towards them, bigots will find any excuse, even those who are themselves victims of bigots. They don't caricaturize the transcommunity, they really don't take the transcommunity in to consideration at all in regards to drag. Movies that portray transpeople as crazy people or as a gay guy going to a bar to trap straight men have done vastly more damage than the drag community could ever hope to do. And the people who would actually go to a drag show aren't likely to be the type who would then go on to discriminate against transpeople.

[QUOTE=SadisticGecko;48261687]I guess I'm going to be the outlier here. I'm trans, and I think that drag queens are cool. I'm not offended by them in the least bit.[/QUOTE] Context is king. Context is always king.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;48261705]Movies that portray transpeople as crazy people or as a gay guy going to a bar to trap straight men have done vastly more damage than the drag community could ever hope to do. And the people who would actually go to a drag show aren't likely to be the type who would then go on to discriminate against transpeople.[/QUOTE] It is probably where a lot of this hate for them in this thread comes from, speaking of it. Seems to be a few saying they harm trans people, but I think this is self projection of their own insensitivity rather than actual fact.

What the fuck so many 'trans' people here no wonder this place is so shitty and filled with so much stupid opinions [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Terrible post/why reply/ban history" - OvB))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Vasili;48261763]It is probably where a lot of this hate for them in this thread comes from, speaking of it. Seems to be a few saying they harm trans people, but I think this is self projection of their own insensitivity rather than actual fact.[/QUOTE]And its like, some will point to Ru Paul and go "See, they really are!" and thats just furthers my point about media. Its a reality show, its literally complete bullshit. Its in the same running as Big Brother and America's Next Top Model and all that kind of shit. Its designed to be outrageous and shock inducing to grab people's attention and make them sit and watch every episode. Reality shows are notoriously exploitative and misrepresentative, why start taking one like Ru Paul serious when it is so blatantly doing the same thing as every other show in its genre.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48260834]Because all they do is "Haha look at me isn't it bizarre that a man is dressing up like a woman?" and then they try to compare themselves to actual transgendered people. Drag Queens are fucking pathetic[/QUOTE] They have every right to do as they please. You're literally assuming that that quote applies to the majority of drag queens. You are intolerant. And so are a good majority of the posters above you. That's pathetic.

[QUOTE=AlexDeviant;48261764]What the fuck so many 'trans' people here no wonder this place is so shitty and filled with so much stupid opinions[/QUOTE] Ah yes, the endangered poster species 'bait'. Here we see the classic predator posting some pretty obvious bait. It looks like its going to go home hungry though, because [I]no one[/I] is dumb enough to take that bait. Better luck next time, little bait.

Makes me laugh that the usual "i'm trans social justice nr 1" posters come in and immediately start spouting generalisations about drag-queens. You bigots.

I have to say, this thread has been educational. I literally thought people did drag because "haha look at me dressing up like a different gender, how absurd." IMO there's no problem with it if they actually identify with it in some way or if drag helps with dysphoria. If that's the case, it's still weird to me that they don't express that part of their identity more often, but to each their own. The media's "drag = trans" myth is toxic, but that's obviously the media's fault, not theirs.

[QUOTE=27X;48261706]Context is king. Context is always king.[/QUOTE] All I'm seeing is the usual LGBT in house fighting. As well as "a small minority does a thing I don't like, so all people of that group must do the thing I don't like." I mean, hell. Half the time the transgender community can't agree on what qualifies someone as transgender. I'm all for self expression and breaking gender roles, which is what people in drag are all about.

Wow, I am well aware that bigotry isn't only limited to [quote] 'privileged' [/quote] folk, but this thread really showed me that there is a long way to go within the lgbt community themselves. So what some of you guys are saying is that it is not okay for men to (do what they want with their lives) and dress or act feminine? So much for tolerance and progressiveness.

I'm trans and I'm a giant gay among other things, I still do drag queen/king/faux. Fucking love it all, it's great for absurdly over the top stuff, or just normal stuff.

This kind of reminds me of that Native American stuff a year or two ago where surveys revealed that the Native Americans didn't really give a shit and it was just white people getting offended for them. I know dozens and dozens of trans people, including myself, and I've never heard of any of them having problems with drag queens other than disliking one individual or something like that.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48260536]Drag Queens are the fucking worst, they make a mockery of trans people and put the entirety of the LGBT community in a bad light. They act like stereotypical "fat black women" and just do it for fun and treat it like it's a fucking sideshow activity, and then who does the media look to first? These cunts. Drag shows are fucking awful[/QUOTE] Uh.... Uhhhhh...... Entirely missed the point of being a drag queen.