[QUOTE=Kartoffel;42296588]You know, the thing that amuses me is that pretty much everyone is pointing fingers at others. Everyone at the government is equally at fault because neither of the parties are at all willing to work with each other and do what is right. Democrats think they're doing what is right and they blame the Republicans when something goes wrong, and the Republicans do the exact same thing. Both parties are wrong, regardless of how right they think they are. Perhaps they should take a step from their ruling seats and act in the interests of the people instead of their own interests.
Fuck both parties, and fuck the two-party system. Politicians should be elected on their eligibility and the skills they can bring, not on the false promises they make.
[editline]September 24th, 2013[/editline]
What I mean by "fuck the two-party system" is that we should elect candidates, not parties. If people operate on labels, it tells you which side to hate instead of just hating the whole.[/QUOTE]
Disagree. Democrats are not the ones threatening to shut down the government if they don't get a law repealed from 4 years ago, passed by supermajorities in both houses, to help people get health insurance. It's just not accurate to claim they're both equally responsible. Democrats have not spent all of their years in the minority grinding the entire machinery of government to a halt with filibusters just out of partisan spite.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;42297686]Disagree. Democrats are not the ones threatening to shut down the government if they don't get a law repealed from 4 years ago, passed by supermajorities in both houses, to help people get health insurance. It's just not accurate to claim they're both equally responsible. Democrats have not spent all of their years in the minority grinding the entire machinery of government to a halt with filibusters just out of partisan spite.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't just talking about the shutdown, I was talking about [i]everything[/i]. Both parties are equally at fault because neither party is willing to listen to the other.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;42297868]I wasn't just talking about the shutdown, I was talking about [i]everything[/i]. Both parties are equally at fault because neither party is willing to listen to the other.[/QUOTE]
Obama's entire agenda is Republican ideas from the past 20-30 years. There is nothing truly liberal or progressive about this administration at all. How can you say they're not willing to listen to anyone when the entire party has allowed themselves to be dragged to a piece of territory on the ideological spectrum that Clinton-era Republicans used to occupy?
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;42297960]Obama's entire agenda is Republican ideas from the past 20-30 years. There is nothing truly liberal or progressive about this administration at all. How can you say they're not willing to listen to anyone when the entire party has allowed themselves to be dragged to a piece of territory on the ideological spectrum that Clinton-era Republicans used to occupy?[/QUOTE]
We're not talking about the past 20-30 years, we're talking about the now. Anything Democrats propose gets shot down, and the same goes for anything Republicans propose. It's funny that you blind yourself to this, but that's on you. I guess another part of the problem is people vilifying those who do not hold their views. Both sides are guilty of this, which is further reason the two-party system should be abandoned. The American people should respect each other instead of hating those who disagree with them.
The simple fact is, lately, the Congress/Senate have been the Little Houses That Wouldn't.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42298140]The simple fact is, lately, the Congress/Senate have been the Little Houses That Wouldn't.[/QUOTE]
The incompetence is strong with Congress.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;42298255]The incompetence is strong with Congress.[/QUOTE]
It's not even incompetence. It's balls-out gamesmanship. The most important thing is winning and getting your stuff passed without letting any of the other team's bills make it into the basket, or failing that at least stalemate so the other team doesn't win until there's another election and you can try and stack the teams in your favour. Second most important thing is getting re-elected so you can continue supporting your team.
The most powerful nation in the world is being run by well-paid children while the income gap between the top couple of percent and the rest of... well, the entire world widens to nearly unprecedented levels.
:suicide:
We should put Congress at minimal wage and make them earn a promotion from "politician" to "human"
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;42298099]We're not talking about the past 20-30 years, we're talking about the now. Anything Democrats propose gets shot down, and the same goes for anything Republicans propose. It's funny that you blind yourself to this, but that's on you. I guess another part of the problem is people vilifying those who do not hold their views. Both sides are guilty of this, which is further reason the two-party system should be abandoned. The American people should respect each other instead of hating those who disagree with them.[/QUOTE]
hurr past doesn't matter just look at now
Democrats have always been willing to compromise. Problem is, in 2010 all of the responsible Republicans who were also willing to compromise got replaced by crazy people who equate compromise to bible burning. If you want to talk about right now, today, you really don't have to look any further than those people. That is the difference between right now and any other point in history, because the Democratic party has not changed dramatically in the last three years.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;42298599]hurr past doesn't matter just look at now
Democrats have always been willing to compromise. Problem is, in 2010 all of the responsible Republicans who were also willing to compromise got replaced by crazy people who equate compromise to bible burning. If you want to talk about right now, today, you really don't have to look any further than those people. That is the difference between right now and any other point in history, because the Democratic party has not changed dramatically in the last three years.[/QUOTE]
They're willing to compromise on what [i]they[/i] want, not on what the Republicans want. You can't just write off the opposition and propose what you want and call it "compromise". Both parties are guilty of this, do not act like they aren't.
[editline]September 24th, 2013[/editline]
I would also like to point out that we are both having an excellent congressional debate here. And that's to say that this is going to get a lot worse before this gets better, and that I would prefer to agree to disagree.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;42296588]You know, the thing that amuses me is that pretty much everyone is pointing fingers at others. Everyone at the government is equally at fault because neither of the parties are at all willing to work with each other and do what is right. Democrats think they're doing what is right and they blame the Republicans when something goes wrong, and the Republicans do the exact same thing. Both parties are wrong, regardless of how right they think they are. Perhaps they should take a step from their ruling seats and act in the interests of the people instead of their own interests.
Fuck both parties, and fuck the two-party system. Politicians should be elected on their eligibility and the skills they can bring, not on the false promises they make.
[editline]September 24th, 2013[/editline]
What I mean by "fuck the two-party system" is that we should elect candidates, not parties. If people operate on labels, it tells you which side to hate instead of just hating the whole.[/QUOTE]This....so much this.
Not only that, but we need term limits as well. Can't have the same old farts in office for decades at a time. It'll help introduce new ideas to the government and if we the people don't like it, then we the people don't vote for it.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;42298766]They're willing to compromise on what [i]they[/i] want, not on what the Republicans want. You can't just write off the opposition and propose what you want and call it "compromise". Both parties are guilty of this, do not act like they aren't.
[editline]September 24th, 2013[/editline]
I would also like to point out that we are both having an excellent congressional debate here. And that's to say that this is going to get a lot worse before this gets better, and that I would prefer to agree to disagree.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if you noticed, but it's the republican side of the house writing the ransom note, not the democrat side.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;42299258]I don't know if you noticed, but it's the republican side of the house writing the ransom note, not the democrat side.[/QUOTE]Both parties are guilty of using the same strategy, and the fact that they're still bickering while the headcutter's ax looms ominously overhead just proves that they don't have our best interest in mind.
I don't know why we're arguing about this at all.
[QUOTE=Telepethi;42284168]I personally don't want Obamacare, because it isn't "socialized healthcare" all it does is tax your income more if you don't buy shitty expensive healthcare from some corporation.
If I wanted healthcare I'd pay for it. Don't force something I can't afford and don't want/need on me goddamnit.[/QUOTE]
Well to be fair if you got full fledge socialized health care like all the top health care countries have you'd be paying for it too - in the form of expensive income taxes.
Which would be worth it IMO
Also if you can't afford health care right now then the ACA pretty much doesn't apply to you, it'll just get it so healthcare hopefully is at a point where you can afford it in the long run.
Everyone who makes less than $45k a year gets subsidies to help pay for health care on TOP of already cheaper healthcare thanks to the fact that everyone is forced to use it. Everyone below $28k a year gets massive subsidies to help pay for healthcare. Anyone where health care will cost more than 8% of their total income is automatically exempted from any sort of ACA penalty.
[QUOTE=Solo Wing;42299308]Both parties are guilty of using the same strategy, and the fact that they're still bickering while the headcutter's ax looms ominously overhead just proves that they don't have our best interest in mind.
I don't know why we're arguing about this at all.[/QUOTE]
Argument for the sake of argument is the SH thing.
[editline]24th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;42299258]I don't know if you noticed, but it's the republican side of the house writing the ransom note, not the democrat side.[/QUOTE]
Granted, although I can guarantee you that the Democrats would do the same thing in the Republicans' position.
sorry if this a stupid question but what happens if the government shuts down do government employs not get payed for a bit?
[QUOTE=TheRames;42299427]sorry if this a stupid question but what happens if the government shuts down do government employs not get payed for a bit?[/QUOTE]
They get "funding hiatus"...except for Congress, of course. Those fuckers still get paid.
oddly enough, the only side I've been hearing say "There's going to be a shut down" is the democrat side, even if they're saying it's the Republicans who are going to cause it.
I have two questions - do the politicians continue to get paid, and do soldiers stop getting paid? The last time this happened my cousin, a battle medic, was not paid during the shutdown. It seriously hurt his bottom line since he still has payments due back stateside.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;42299477]I have two questions - do the politicians continue to get paid, and do soldiers stop getting paid? The last time this happened my cousin, a battle medic, was not paid during the shutdown. It seriously hurt his bottom line since he still has payments due back stateside.[/QUOTE]
Politicians still get paid.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;42299486]Politicians still get paid.[/QUOTE]
That is so wrong on so many levels. They cause this mess and then they are the only ones who get paid during the effects of it. I have said for a long time that it's not democrats or republicans causing this shit, it's both playing against the middle(the regular people) who are so indoctrinated into their party that they can just place the blame squarely on the other side, with no information, and just deal with the bullshit in the meantime.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;42299504]That is so wrong on so many levels. They cause this mess and then they are the only ones who get paid during the effects of it. I have said for a long time that it's not democrats or republicans causing this shit, it's both playing against the middle(the regular people) who are so indoctrinated into their party that they can just place the blame squarely on the other side, with no information, and just deal with the bullshit in the meantime.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's bullshit. But hey, welcome to the land of politics where it sucks for the honest people.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;42285296]is it bad I want the shutdown to happen, just so that everyone can see the republicans for what they really are, cry babies who don't actually care about the country[/QUOTE]
Most people are politically ignorant and would consider any issues to be the fault of the current executively voted in government - aka the dems with Obama.
[QUOTE=areolop;42283663]Dear Germany,
No one forgets WWII
The people who fucked up your land,
USA
--
Theres a part of me who wants to see our government fuck up for the sole purpose of people realizing how screwed up our country is[/QUOTE]
Because the Nazis were responsible for the largest organised genocide in human history?
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;42299458]They get "funding hiatus"...except for Congress, of course. Those fuckers still get paid.[/QUOTE]Funding hiatus....also known as "work for free because we can't be arsed to pay you."
If ANYONE needs to have their paychecks held hostage, its these idiots in congress.
[QUOTE=Solo Wing;42299220]This....so much this.
Not only that, but we need term limits as well. Can't have the same old farts in office for decades at a time. It'll help introduce new ideas to the government and if we the people don't like it, then we the people don't vote for it.[/QUOTE]
term limits were imposed on the mid 90s but then shot down by the supreme court because term limits are already natural and a law is unneeded
[QUOTE=wraithcat;42299624]Most people are politically ignorant and would consider any issues to be the fault of the current executively voted in government - aka the dems with Obama.[/QUOTE]
I've got a secret for you, none of them want to help you, me, or anyone else but themselves.
Call me dumb, or whatever, I never really did understand politics, but I wonder how (if at all) this will affect Canada...
[QUOTE=Daemon White;42299698]Call me dumb, or whatever, I never really did understand politics, but I wonder how (if at all) this will affect Canada...[/QUOTE]
if there's any government contractors in canada they will probably not be paid until it's over. So they might lay some people off for a while.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42283015]Fuck Republicans. Never have I seen a party that is so willing to fuck up their own economy if they don't get their shitty own agenda in.[/QUOTE]
Both parties have to be involved with fucking up the economy, it's not as if the Democrafts would have fixed the economy by now if they the Republicans were pushed out.
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