Fuck Obamacare, fuck government programs paying for anything other than food/housing
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;42299804]Fuck Obamacare, fuck government programs paying for anything other than food/housing[/QUOTE]
Yeah sick poor people should just be tossed into a huge hole and burried. Who needs 'em?
[QUOTE=preebird;42292459]I'm just saving up to move to another country lol. ABANDON SHIP!![/QUOTE]
We haven't hit the iceberg yet, there's still a chance to change course before we sink. The problem is the current crew refuses to listen.
So, not so much "abandon ship", I think "mutiny" is the better course of action here.
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;42299804]Fuck Obamacare, fuck government programs paying for anything other than food/housing[/QUOTE]
food and housing are not as important as education and healthcare.
edit: on a societal level in today's western world lel
[QUOTE=Falchion;42301264]food and housing are not as important as education and healthcare.
edit: on a societal level in today's western world lel[/QUOTE]
I would argue that food and shelter are more important than education and healthcare, if only because without them, you will [I]definitely[/I] die instead of just maybe die.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42302134]I would argue that food and shelter are more important than education and healthcare, if only because without them, you will [I]definitely[/I] die instead of just maybe die.[/QUOTE]
And if you keep a group of people healthy and give them the opportunity to get educated, you may eventually no longer need to provide food and shelter for them, as they'll be able to take care of themselves.
It essentially boils down to "[i]Give a man a fish/Give a man a fishingrod[/i]".
America; The country that tried to show it's daddy it could be independent.
I'm sorry, but as an european I don't understand why is anyone against Obamacare?
Is it because people don't want to "pay for other's wellbeing"? Is it some fear of socialism, or what?
[QUOTE=Stopper;42302656]I'm sorry, but as an european I don't understand why is anyone against Obamacare?
Is it because people don't want to "pay for other's wellbeing"? Is it some fear of socialism, or what?[/QUOTE]
Basically. It's an extremely selfish "Why should my money go to help others" that many conservatives have, especially rich ones.
[QUOTE=SuddenImpact;42283541]Dear USA,
Your country is fucked.
Yours Sincerely,
Germany.[/QUOTE]
Want a new roomate? :>
It's ok if the government shuts down and whatnot, because someone will document this and create a example of us of "WHAT NOT TO DO."
Game over USA, we're heading into hell.
[QUOTE=Stopper;42302656]I'm sorry, but as an european I don't understand why is anyone against Obamacare?
Is it because people don't want to "pay for other's wellbeing"? Is it some fear of socialism, or what?[/QUOTE]
Yes and no. As others have pointed out, The Affordable Care Act is [B]not[/B] like the european kind of healthcare. Where we pay into a single-payer system and the money is the distributed through the healthcare system, the ACA continues the current system of private health insurance providers, however now you HAVE to, by law, pay for insurance from one of the providers. This means people who are already squeezed for money and have not paid for healthcare insurance because they thought food on the table might be the better choice, now have to set money aside to pay for the insurance.
In effect it has taken the choice out of the equation, to the pain of many poor people.
[QUOTE=Beafman;42303978]Yes and no. As others have pointed out, The Affordable Care Act is [B]not[/B] like the european kind of healthcare. Where we pay into a single-payer system and the money is the distributed through the healthcare system, the ACA continues the current system of private health insurance providers, however now you HAVE to, by law, pay for insurance from one of the providers. This means people who are already squeezed for money and have not paid for healthcare insurance because they thought food on the table might be the better choice, now have to set money aside to pay for the insurance.
In effect it has taken the choice out of the equation, to the pain of many poor people.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure you're exempt from having to buy health insurance if your income is low enough.
"Citizens whose insurance coverage would cost more than 8% of household income and are exempt from paying the annual penalty."
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Change_in_number_of_uninsured[/url]
[QUOTE=Stopper;42302656]I'm sorry, but as an european I don't understand why is anyone against Obamacare?
Is it because people don't want to "pay for other's wellbeing"? Is it some fear of socialism, or what?[/QUOTE]
Misinformation and disinformation. Most people don't have any idea what is in the law, and a frighting number of people still think it creates panels of government goons that will decide whether or not to euthanize Grandma when her health problems cost the state too much money.
[QUOTE=Beafman;42303978]Yes and no. As others have pointed out, The Affordable Care Act is [B]not[/B] like the european kind of healthcare. Where we pay into a single-payer system and the money is the distributed through the healthcare system, the ACA continues the current system of private health insurance providers, however now you HAVE to, by law, pay for insurance from one of the providers. This means people who are already squeezed for money and have not paid for healthcare insurance because they thought food on the table might be the better choice, now have to set money aside to pay for the insurance.
In effect it has taken the choice out of the equation, to the pain of many poor people.[/QUOTE]
Which it just now hit me that as far as I know, I don't have healthcare. At what point am I suddenly forced to have it and how much is that usually per month?
Vanderbilt hospital down the road just across the way from me is laying off over 1,000 workers due to Obamacare
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
It sounds pretty that's all it is. "[B]ObamaCare" [/B]It should be strung up in lights across every major city in the U.S fuckin' magic legislation we have here this is what America needs.
[QUOTE=Stopper;42302656]I'm sorry, but as an european I don't understand why is anyone against Obamacare?
Is it because people don't want to "pay for other's wellbeing"? Is it some fear of socialism, or what?[/QUOTE]
Bear in mind that the [I]vast [/I]majority of Americans either support the ACA in its current iteration or want to see it modified [B]without [/B]being cut. These house republicans coming out talking about how they are voting for the ~will of the people~ are total bullshit.
Is the book atlas shrugged now relevant?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42300246]Yeah sick poor people should just be tossed into a huge hole and burried. Who needs 'em?[/QUOTE]
You idiot, that'll just grow more poor people!
[QUOTE=Raidyr;42308462]Bear in mind that the [I]vast [/I]majority of Americans either support the ACA in its current iteration or want to see it modified [B]without [/B]being cut. These house republicans coming out talking about how they are voting for the ~will of the people~ are total bullshit.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/health-care-polls_n_3934786.html[/url]
[QUOTE]
Forty-two percent of Americans approved of the law, while 53 percent disapproved. That's the highest rate of disapproval that Pew has found since the law's passage in 2010. Attitudes among the uninsured were somewhat more positive, with 49 percent approving and 46 percent disapproving.
An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, also released Monday, found similar opposition, with 44 percent of Americans calling the health care law a bad idea and 31 percent calling it a good idea. NBC posted a range of respondents' explanations for their opinions, from fears about "death panels" and rising costs, to happiness that preexisting conditions are covered and young adults can be covered by their parents' insurance.
[/quote]
I wouldn't exactly call NBC or Huffington post a right wing source, either.
[QUOTE=UziXxX;42309044]
I wouldn't exactly call NBC or Huffington post a right wing source, either.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
In the Pew survey, those who disapproved of the health care law split on what lawmakers should do next: 27 percent of all respondents said lawmakers should try to make Obamacare work as well as possible, and 23 percent said they seek to make it fail.[/QUOTE]
Read your own source next time. As I said, the vast majority either support it or it should be modified.
[QUOTE=UziXxX;42309044][url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/health-care-polls_n_3934786.html[/url]
I wouldn't exactly call NBC or Huffington post a right wing source, either.[/QUOTE]
You're also forgetting that those 'disapprove' numbers also include the 'ACA isn't going far enough' option which surprisingly a lot of people chose.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42302134]I would argue that food and shelter are more important than education and healthcare, if only because without them, you will [I]definitely[/I] die instead of just maybe die.[/QUOTE]
Most poor people today are people living in comparative poverty.
They already have food and shelter but no chance of social advancement and expensive health problems can be a disaster.
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;42308309]Vanderbilt hospital down the road just across the way from me is laying off over 1,000 workers due to Obamacare
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
It sounds pretty that's all it is. "[B]ObamaCare" [/B]It should be strung up in lights across every major city in the U.S fuckin' magic legislation we have here this is what America needs.[/QUOTE]
May I ask what your argument is, exactly?
[QUOTE=SuddenImpact;42283806]The only way to make these people listen would be to present them a suitcase full of green paper with faces on it.
[editline]23rd September 2013[/editline]
Only if you survive the horrible immigration ritual involving loads of german beer and yodel music.[/QUOTE]
I'm from third world. Can I join glorious Germany too?
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;42305926]Misinformation and disinformation. Most people don't have any idea what is in the law, and a frighting number of people still think it creates panels of government goons that will decide whether or not to euthanize Grandma when her health problems cost the state too much money.[/QUOTE]
I've always found that excuse funny, considering in our current healthcare system, it's very possible that panels of corporate goons will decide to end her healthcare treatment when her health problems cost the company too much. In a way this could be worse if she requires pain medication or medication that's holding off illness, or surgery or extended hospital stays. That's not even sentencing you to a peaceful death, that's pretty much damning you to a slow and painful end in the living room.
Right now I'm relying on a government program for education, if the program goes down and I lose out on all the education I've gained I'll probably look into immigrating into another country.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;42302672]Basically. It's an extremely selfish "Why should my money go to help others" that many conservatives have, especially rich ones.[/QUOTE]
No it's not that at all, why don't you spend some time learning a little bit about the way America works. It's not just "FREE HEALTHCARE ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS APPROVE THIS BILL" that's not how it works here. This is a corrupt bill made by corrupt people and a lot of whats in it has nothing to do with healthcare(gun control, spying stuff, other government programs) Take a look at the bill, and then speak.
IIRC it's about 1600 pages of bullshit. The way it works here is one side writes the bill, and it may be good, but the other side disagrees so they add stuff that no one in their right mind would want just so they can shoot it down. Then the other side removes some of that bullshit and adds their own bullshit and it goes around like that until the bill is unrecognizable and helps no one, wastes time and money. Half the time it's basically "I'll approve this bill but only if you put something in it that will benefit me as an individual"(like government contracts for the companies they own/partner in at a ridiculously overpriced rate.)
It's easy to just say "Obamacare, that's free healthcare right? who wouldn't vote for that?" but people don't realize what it actually is. It's not just sunshine and rainbows on paper, it's a horrible bill that will make everything worse. Who is to blame? everyone involved.
and btw I am a poverty level voter who votes only in local elections(since my vote doesn't matter any anything higher than that.)
The worst part of it all, proven time and time again, is that even after it goes through and the real world effects of what I just explained happen, people STILL stick to their indoctrination and just blame the other side. Our government is so corrupt, and our people so brainwashed, that they can get away with literally anything and just say "IT WASN'T US THAT ONLY HAPPENED BECAUSE (insert political party here) DIDN'T AGREE SO WE DIDN'T GET WHAT WE WANTED"
The US as it is heavily mirrors the Soviet Union just prior to its dissolution.
Even assuming we somehow avoid it, is it even worth it at this point? Our constitution is barely worth the parchment it was printed on at this point.
It is an excellent document, mind you, it isn't really the fault of the document itself. It is concise and well thought out. However it doesn't do anyone any good when it isn't followed and the checks and balance system in place refuses to even acknowledge many of the issues.
The TSA? Not okay. FISA courts? Not okay. Basically the entire NSA isn't okay anymore. And fuck those are just the ones violating the fourth amendment. (Unreasonable search and seizure)
Then you go on to shit like military spending or the entire concept of immigration courts, and it is all just fucked beyond imagination. Maybe we need to fall apart.
You know, they really should make it so that if Congress causes a government shutdown that all congress members are rendered ineligible for reelection.
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