Majority of UK now wants to remain in EU, poll finds - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51306559]it's still the public's opinion[/QUOTE] Polls are the opinions of a few thousand (or less in a few polls) people. Not an entire nation. They try to guess the opinion of everyone else with those results. But as we saw with polls before Brexit, they ignored the rural areas. Which made the polls inaccurate.

[QUOTE=Kigen;51306572]Polls are the opinions of a few thousand people. Not an entire nation.[/QUOTE] And they are done in such a way as to be as representative of the full population as possible. That's basic polling 101.

[QUOTE=Kigen;51306572]Polls are the opinions of a few thousand people. Not an entire nation. They try to guess the opinion of everyone else with those results. But as we saw with polls before Brexit, they ignored the rural areas. Which made the polls inaccurate.[/QUOTE] You might notice the turnout rate for the referendum wasn't 100%, so by your own logic, the referendum shouldn't count either.

[QUOTE=Kigen;51306572]They try to guess the opinion of everyone else with those results. But as we saw with polls before Brexit, they ignored the rural areas. Which made the polls inaccurate.[/QUOTE] More so British people are notorious for not, well, saying what they actually want in polls.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51306573]And they are done in such a way as to be as representative of the full population as possible. That's basic polling 101.[/QUOTE] They failed the in the polls before Brexit because they ignored the rural areas of the UK. Favoring city residents. [editline]4th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=James xX;51306575]You might notice the turnout rate for the referendum wasn't 100%, so by your own logic, the referendum shouldn't count either.[/QUOTE] A referendum is everyone who wants to vote in it can. A poll is quite the opposite. It tends to be a survey company cold calling a few thousand people. Internet polls are worse since they do not account for anything but the viewers of that particular site. You cannot blame the referendum. Because if some people choose not to vote then that is their choice. I cannot believe that people are equating polls to referendums.

[QUOTE=Kigen;51306577]They failed the in the polls before Brexit because they ignored the rural areas of the UK. Favoring city residents. [editline]4th November 2016[/editline] A referendum is everyone who wants to vote in it can. A poll is quite the opposite. It tends to be a survey company cold calling a few thousand people. Internet polls are worse since they do not account for anything but the viewers of that particular site. You cannot blame the referendum. Because if some people choose not to vote then that is their choice. I cannot believe that people are equating polls to referendums.[/QUOTE] Another not understanding statistics 101 post for the list

[QUOTE=Kyle902;51306652]Another not understanding statistics 101 post for the list[/QUOTE] Another post not explaining how I'm magically not understanding "statistics 101." I'm guessing you have a doctorate in statistics. So please, explain. I'm pointing out flaws in polling. Because this kind of thread gets posted pretty much every month since Brexit.

[QUOTE=Kigen;51306572]Polls are the opinions of a few thousand (or less in a few polls) people. Not an entire nation. They try to guess the opinion of everyone else with those results. But as we saw with polls before Brexit, they ignored the rural areas. Which made the polls inaccurate.[/QUOTE] The polls were pretty accurate though, there was a move towards Leave once the campaigns got started and the polls showed it virtually tied by the end. The fact that Leave won by 4 points is not a massive upset compared with what the polls indicated [t]http://i.imgur.com/nbWrfkJ.png[/t] On the other hand this new poll is so close as to be pretty much meaningless, it won't really be clear that opinion has changed unless we start getting polls saying 60% would now vote Remain or something like that

[QUOTE=Kyle902;51306652]Another not understanding statistics 101 post for the list[/QUOTE] there was a powerful argument for a sticky that explained polling science in SH for a while, but eventually the need disappeared after every time someone made a post like above, about 5 posters would point out that they don't actually know how polls worked

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51306428]"Whining." Can people not complain about the fact that something that will affect their whole entirely life was passed by about 2% of the population, and that the highest support for leave came from those who won't have to live with its consequences?[/QUOTE] And that was put up for a binding vote, and they lost? yes, please dont.

[QUOTE=Kigen;51306572]Polls are the opinions of a few thousand (or less in a few polls) people. Not an entire nation. They try to guess the opinion of everyone else with those results. But as we saw with polls before Brexit, they ignored the rural areas. Which made the polls inaccurate.[/QUOTE] behold Kigen, demonstrating that he has exactly 0 (none) knowledge on how polling works. Making an ass of himself in public, and he doesnt even realize it. Keep on keeping on dude.

[QUOTE=Kigen;51306554]The vote has been cast. Polls are not national referendums.[/QUOTE] the vote has been cast, but that doesn't mean we can't cast another one a second referendum would probably have remain win by a strong margin

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51306429]except if the majority of people don't want to leave[/QUOTE] The issue is that the only definitive way to verify that would be a referendum. What if the Leave side calls for a third referendum when they lose?

[QUOTE=phaedon;51306792]The issue is that the only definitive way to verify that would be a referendum. What if the Leave side calls for a third referendum when they lose?[/QUOTE] do it by a bigger margin of 60:40 and call it a day

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;51306337]The UK people voted. The majority wons as it's the rule. There's nothing to explain - They regret and will regret terribly their decision.[/QUOTE] ah yes, confining the entire future generation to a terrible future based on a regretted decision because of pride. a wise decision.

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51306754]And that was put up for a [B]binding[/B] vote, and they lost? yes, please dont.[/QUOTE] [B]WRONG[/B]

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51306776]the vote has been cast, but that doesn't mean we can't cast another one a second referendum would probably have remain win by a strong margin[/QUOTE] That person we dont like has been found innocent by a jury... lets just trial them again and see what happens. Yea... stay classy.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51306802]do it by a bigger margin of 60:40 and call it a day[/QUOTE] Sure, but there's no law that says that referendums need 60% in order to pass. You can argue that there should be, but the referendum has already happened and there's no guarantee that Remain would win with 60% next time.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51306968][B]WRONG[/B][/QUOTE] Indulge me as to how it was not binding even though the politicians that were the architects behind it said it would be binding by the power of their office? You are about to unravel the fabric of the United kingdoms democracy, just giving you a heads up...

[QUOTE=phaedon;51306973]Sure, but there's no law that says that referendums need 60% in order to pass. You can argue that there should be, but the referendum has already happened and there's no guarantee that Remain would win with 60% next time.[/QUOTE] It wouldn't need to win by 60%, Remain is status quo. Leave would have to win by 60% which makes perfect sense as they are the ones calling for huge change affecting the entire nation for generations.

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51306978]Indulge me as to how it was not binding even though the politicians that were the architects behind it said it would be binding by the power of their office? You are about to unravel the fabric of the United kingdoms democracy, just giving you a heads up...[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_sovereignty_in_the_United_Kingdom[/url] You need to fucking read, dude. This is why it is non binding, it has not been approved by parliament, nor does it commit parliament to do anything.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;51306763]behold Kigen, demonstrating that he has exactly 0 (none) knowledge on how polling works. Making an ass of himself in public, and he doesnt even realize it. Keep on keeping on dude.[/QUOTE] I know how polling works. I've studied documents on polling. Its imperfect guessing how a larger group of people feel based on taking a subset of randomly selected surveys of a smaller group of people. Its guessing, extrapolating a outcome based on a smaller sample size. Can you guys not understand that sometimes that doesn't work? Why do you think there is a margin of error added to polls? This is the company the poll comes from: [url]http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/[/url] [url]https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/BMG-Research-Reviews-E336775.htm[/url] Polling is one of those industries that can be heavily affected by biases. The phrasing of a question, where the data comes from, etc, are all critical to the outcome of the resulting conclusion. Social science isn't science. It rarely follows any scientific rules. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_poll#Potential_for_inaccuracy[/url] How about you start backing up your view point with some actual fucking research? Instead of fucking saying, "behold I disagree with this person, so this person must be a dumbass." [QUOTE=smurfy;51306679]The polls were pretty accurate though, there was a move towards Leave once the campaigns got started and the polls showed it virtually tied by the end. The fact that Leave won by 4 points is not a massive upset compared with what the polls indicated [t]http://i.imgur.com/nbWrfkJ.png[/t] On the other hand this new poll is so close as to be pretty much meaningless, it won't really be clear that opinion has changed unless we start getting polls saying 60% would now vote Remain or something like that[/QUOTE] That is some very wide margin of error. In some cases on that graph there is almost a 20% difference.

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51306978]Indulge me as to how it was not binding even though the politicians that were the architects behind it said it would be binding by the power of their office? You are about to unravel the fabric of the United kingdoms democracy, just giving you a heads up...[/QUOTE] [URL="http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf"]From the bill itself[/URL]: [QUOTE=Page 25]This Bill requires a referendum to be held on the question of the UK’s continued membership of the European Union (EU) before the end of 2017. [B]It does not contain any requirement for the UK Government to implement the results of the referendum, nor set a time limit by which a vote to leave the EU should be implemented[/B]. Instead, this is a type of referendum known as pre-legislative or consultative, which enables the electorate to voice an opinion which then influences the Government in its policy decisions. The referendums held in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in 1997 and 1998 are examples of this type, where opinion was tested before legislation was introduced. The UK does not have constitutional provisions which would require the results of a referendum to be implemented, unlike, for example, the Republic of Ireland, where the circumstances in which a binding referendum should be held are set out in its constitution.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51306971]That person we dont like has been found innocent by a jury... lets just trial them again and see what happens. Yea... stay classy.[/QUOTE] shite metaphor you got there blizzerd, but it's more like "that person we don't like has been found innocent by a jury, and it turns out that the jury was demonstrably lied to by the defendant, evidence is piling in that it was the wrong verdict, and (ignoring double jeopardy for the moment because this metaphor is shitty enough already) that person will probably do a ton more damage if they're left to roam free. Hey, maybe we should put him on trial again and do it properly this time?"

We will look back at this as one of the most embarrassing moments in British politics, what an absolute fuck up

[QUOTE=Tacooo;51307358]We will look back at this as one of the most embarrassing moments in British politics, what an absolute fuck up[/QUOTE] all brexit has done is successfully derailed absolutely every other important part of politics for the forseeable future in the name of some bollocks that, if it goes through, will just continue the entropic decline of quality-of-life in this country. and if it fails it'll probably all go to shit anyway as the EU will sanction us or some bollocks. no matter what voting yes to leaving has turned the key and now there's nothing to be done except burn to death in a methane gas fire like we're trapped inside a great big pipe full of poo and farts and there's no way out except succumbing to the flames or submerging our heads in the great lake of liquid, steaming shite that we're paddling in. poke your head above the surface and have your eyebrows lashed off by smoldering farts, or submerge yourself again and turn blue under the surface of shit. damned and damned. [editline]4th November 2016[/editline] realtalk brexit is a betrayal of both sides because das politiken cannot even begin to have balls for either side of the decision, and so all they're going to do is waffle back and forth because they follow the money. the money isn't on either side, no matter what they do they're gonna lose something somwhere, so all they can do is waffle back and forth, trembling like a tit on a tightrope

No matter what happens, whether we end up leaving the EU or not, we will never be happy at the end of the day :v:

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51306971]That person we dont like has been found innocent by a jury... lets just trial them again and see what happens. Yea... stay classy.[/QUOTE] your analogy breaks down when you realise that a jury has usually comes to an unanimous decision, not one based on what half of them say. if half the jury find a person guilty, it's rather difficult to convict them [editline]4th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=phaedon;51306973]Sure, but there's no law that says that referendums need 60% in order to pass. You can argue that there should be, but the referendum has already happened and there's no guarantee that Remain would win with 60% next time.[/QUOTE] make it so that remain is the default and if we want to leave then 60% of voters need to do so bam, done

[QUOTE=FreyasFighter;51309423]No matter what happens, whether we end up leaving the EU or not, we will never be happy at the end of the day :v:[/QUOTE] Two facts of Britain - people drink tea, and people moan.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;51306196]The whole 'anti-democratic' argument falls apart when you realize taking a decision such as this based on a non binding referendum alone, without parliamentary approval and only through executive action is against how British democracy works in principle. The pigfucker is the one to blame for this mess in the first place, not only he allowed the referendum to take place as it was, he left everything in disarray after quitting.[/QUOTE] It falls apart more when you realise that people were manipulated into voting with that NHS funding bullshit, the immigration cut bullshit, and the fear mongering "5 MILLION MORE IMMIGRANTS IF WE STAY IN THE EU" bullshit. Quite frankly you might as well have just rigged the election instead of giving people the illusion of choice since the immigration claims were debunked repeatedly, and the NHS promise was broken when Nigel Farage said "WELL IT'S NOT A PROMISE" after the election.