DARPA successful in assisting Sarif industries developing artificial limbs - Polidicks

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;41603780]"He has a different opinion. He must be trolling." [b]You're selling your self to machines.[/b][/QUOTE] Keep going with this, nothing could actually decimate your side of the debate any faster than yourself.

[QUOTE=bravehat;41603805]Keep going with this, nothing could actually decimate your side of the debate any faster than yourself.[/QUOTE] If you're so determined to cut yourself and transform yourself into a robot, then go ahead and become more machine than man. I'll just press your mute button.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;41603822]If you're so determined to cut yourself and transform yourself into a robot, then go ahead and become more machine than man. I'll just press your mute button.[/QUOTE] As I've said mate, I'm more inclined to stay meaty, but carry on this is entertaining.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;41603763]You've already made it perfectly clear to me that you have no soul and therefore have no problems with replacing your self.[/QUOTE] You can't make arguments based on your beliefs like that because they're [I]your[/I] beliefs. Your argument literally went: Person A:I believe "Thing" exists and doing "Action" harms "Thing" Person B:There is no such thing as "Thing" Person A: Well it's clear you don't have "Thing" Now all that's left is for Person B to say "but I haven't done "Action"" and it's gg. The only evidence of "Thing" presented was "Action", which is then flatly disproved. In short, no-one will declare you the winner of an argument when you made up the rules.

man this thread probably would have died two pages ago if i hadn't kept running my mouth sorry y'all

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;41603822]If you're so determined to cut yourself and transform yourself into a robot, then go ahead and become more machine than man. I'll just press your mute button.[/QUOTE] I'm really curious about what your stance on medically necessary mechanical augmentation is? If people who do it out of fancy are inhuman and soulless, then what of the people who do it because it would dramatically improve their quality of life? Somebody who loses a limb in an accident, or somebody with a mutiliating birth defect, or someone with a physical disability? For instance, I've got a birth defect that's severely stunted my lungs. I have 40% reduced lung capacity and lung function, compared to the average person, which means I get out of breath very easily. As you can imagine, this has had some profound impacts on my life. It cost me my career as a pilot, which I had trained for for over four years, and imposes a lot of limitations on the sort of things I can do. If a mechanical alternative became available that allowed me to replace or augment my organic lungs with more efficient technology, would that strip me of my humanity?

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41603929]I'm really curious about what your stance on medically necessary mechanical augmentation is? If people who do it out of fancy are inhuman and soulless, then what of the people who do it because it would dramatically improve their quality of life? Somebody who loses a limb in an accident, or somebody with a mutiliating birth defect, or someone with a physical disability? For instance, I've got a birth defect that's severely stunted my lungs. I have 40% reduced lung capacity and lung function, compared to the average person, which means I get out of breath very easily. As you can imagine, this has had some profound impacts on my life. It cost me my career as a pilot, which I had trained for for over four years, and imposes a lot of limitations on the sort of things I can do. If a mechanical alternative became available that allowed me to replace or augment my organic lungs with more efficient technology, would that strip me of my humanity?[/QUOTE] I've said it multiple times: if it's a necessity, then it's fine since it removes your disability and puts you on par with everyone else. My problem comes from people who do trade their functioning limbs solely to "improve" themselves. You don't see people yanking out their teeth to get dentures; instead you see people getting dentures when they lose their teeth from circumstances out of their control.

How is it different, though? The end-result is the same. I agree that most people won't be too keen to go lop off perfectly fine limbs for a mechanical sidegrade, which will likely make consumer prosthetics a much smaller part of everyday life than Zedacon seems to think or hope for, but the phenomenon won't be unheard of. And, given that the limbs are likely to be functionally identical, with a few extra bits, bobs, and features thrown in for convenience's sake, at most I could say that they're being pointlessly frivolous. But soulless and subhuman? That's some goofy mumbo jumbo you're spillin.

[QUOTE=bravehat;41603325]Right so if someone chooses an augmentation then it would be okay to subject them to bigotry? How are you even fucking [i]trying[/i] to defend this shit?[/QUOTE] What exactly am I trying to defend? I never said anything about "purity" or called the "augmented" less human. It was you and Zedacon who started comparing these "augmented" people, who don't even exist yet, to black people, who did actually suffer many, many years of racism. And I called you out on your shit, because I found the comparison really fucking stupid and disrespectful to all the people throughout of history who did actually suffer at the hands of real bigots, for something that wasn't even their choice.

What makes the choice of replacing your limbs with prostetic ones inhumane? If anything, I think it's MORE humane. You let the people choose.

[QUOTE=Recurracy;41604223]What makes the choice of replacing your limbs with prostetic ones inhumane? If anything, I think it's MORE humane. You let the people choose.[/QUOTE] I think prosthetics should be left for people who actually need them, not for people who want to live their asinine Deus Ex fantasies.

[QUOTE=Chilean_Wolf;41604246]I think prostethics should be left for people who actually need them, not for people who want to live their asinine Deus Ex fantasies.[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone is seriously considering doing it because "Deus Ex did it and it's cool". Sure, Deus Ex may have raised awareness of it, with it's commentaries on the issue, but for the most part, I feel that that incites people to discuss it and think it over, rather than blindly accept it.

I feel like if augmentations were really powered by your food intake you'd need to eat a shitload of calories

[QUOTE=Chilean_Wolf;41604246]I think prosthetics should be left for people who actually need them, not for people who want to live their asinine Deus Ex fantasies.[/QUOTE] glad to know you're against allowing people the freedom to do what they want with their bodies [editline]26th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=KillerJaguar;41604000]You don't see people yanking out their teeth to get dentures; instead you see people getting dentures when they lose their teeth from circumstances out of their control.[/QUOTE] killerjaguar you may be as dumb as a sack of spuds but this is a legit good point against limb prosthetics

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;41604927]glad to know you're against allowing people the freedom to do what they want with their bodies[/QUOTE] Glad to know you're against using the prosthetics on people who actually lost a limb.

[QUOTE=Chilean_Wolf;41605019]Glad to know you're against using the prosthetics on people who actually lost a limb.[/QUOTE] where the fuck did i say that

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;41605040]where the fuck did i say that[/QUOTE] I don't disallow people the freedom to do what they want with their bodies, they can cut the arm themselves if they want a prosthetic so bad. [editline]26th July 2013[/editline] See? I can put words into your mouth too.

[QUOTE=Chilean_Wolf;41605085]I don't disallow people the freedom to do what they want with their bodies, they can cut the arm themselves if they want a prosthetic so bad. [editline]26th July 2013[/editline] See? I can put words into your mouth too.[/QUOTE] yeah that's nice and all except you literally just said that you think prosthetics should be disallowed to anyone except those who actually lost their normal limbs: [QUOTE=Chilean_Wolf;41604246]I think prosthetics should be left for people who actually need them, not for people who want to live their asinine Deus Ex fantasies.[/QUOTE] please stop backpedaling

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;41605126]yeah that's nice and all except you literally just said that you think prosthetics should be disallowed to anyone except those who actually lost their normal limbs: please stop backpedaling[/QUOTE] I just think that handicapped people should be prioritized, that was the intention of my post. Sure, you can do whatever you want with your body, but think: that limb could be going to someone who actually needs it instead.

[QUOTE=Chilean_Wolf;41605348]I just think that handicapped people should be prioritized, that was the intention of my post. Sure, you can do whatever you want with your body, but think: that limb could be going to someone who actually needs it instead.[/QUOTE] Do you really think that prosthetics will like a rare material if people are getting elective procedures to get them?

[QUOTE=Chilean_Wolf;41605348]I just think that handicapped people should be prioritized, that was the intention of my post. Sure, you can do whatever you want with your body, but think: that limb could be going to someone who actually needs it instead.[/QUOTE] when these augmented prosthetics get to the point where people would willingly lop off their limbs to get better ones, you can bet your ass there won't be a limited supply [editline]26th July 2013[/editline] beaten to the punch

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;41603249]It's like you can't see the strong philosophical and ethical questions with chopping your limbs off. You just see: "oh I can lift heavier things by trading my arm for a robotic arm," and then berate anyone who says otherwise.[/QUOTE] Nope. You've ignored and disregarded any response. Every response. You can't argue this, that's clear. You won't take anything but your answer as an answer and you're claiming some sort of moral high ground through this? the fuck.

What the fuck is wrong with these people? Seriously? Every limb taken off steals a bit of humanity as if you were losing points in a game but you don't lose "humanity points" if you lose a limb unwillingly? What arbitrary bullshit [i]is[/i] this? I can't believe I'm actually reading this shit.

is the storm over? [editline]27th July 2013[/editline] well this thread at least taught me to never try to argue against augmentations/implants/prosthetics/such things ever again

[QUOTE=Joazzz;41606028]is the storm over? [editline]27th July 2013[/editline] well this thread at least taught me to never try to argue against augmentations/implants/prosthetics/such things ever again[/QUOTE] how about if you do, you don't argue from stupid and purely emotional and arbitrary stand points

the problem is that i might not be capable of that, not in this context anyway, so i'll just stop trying to save time and space

despite the fervor, nobody seemed to answer me here. i'm genuinely curious what the responses might be [QUOTE=DChapsfield;41597948][QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;41596312]Deus Ex is also a work of fiction. And seriously, is humanity stored in the limbs or something? Are amputees less human because they don't have all their limbs? Is that runner with the prosthetics from the Olympics that gained a lot of attention less human because he has prosthetics? How is getting augmented "losing your humanity"? Its fucking idiotic, inebriated logic. And seriously, you now use Darth-Fucking-Vader? Are you trying or just trolling? Seriously, thats just goddamned stupid. There is no point to being human. We just are. And you're not more human because you have all your limbs, or less human because you get augments, or something stupid like that. Fucking luddites.[/QUOTE] it's not (at first) the soulful romantic "humanity" that we tend to use to refer to one's moral integrity or attachment to emotion it's where when you lose your arm, whether or not you replace it, you are physically 'less human.' the idea is, over time, an automechanization enthusiast may choose to trade or 'enhance' more and more of their body parts until their senses, their perception, their life, down to the minute, is again, less human. to be human is to err; whether or not you believe in some purpose to our creation or evolution, we have capacities and limits, and if someone manages to alter their body to exceed or destroy them, then yes, they are less human. if their waking mind can do away with past attentions to problems and graces that occupy the thoughts of every other current human being, all because they choose to remove parts of their natural body, then they have removed some of their humanity. Think about this: someone holds the record for longest held deadlift in the world. the record holder achieved the feat by succeeding thirteen others over twenty years. then, a woman who willingly mechanized herself goes to best the record using her mechanized solar-powered prosthetic arms, legs, and various truncal muscle augmentations. her replacement hands, made of steel, plastic, aluminum, polycarbonate, and many other materials, grasp the bar. without any lactic acid pain or any requirements for additional energy, she stands for fourteen days and seventeen hours, deciding to stop because "it's far enough to beat the last record." no organic human would ever beat this new time. should it be accepted as a legitimate entry in the book of human being world records? if so, by what criteria?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DChapsfield;41606776]despite the fervor, nobody seemed to answer me here. i'm genuinely curious what the responses might be[/QUOTE] I think there'd be a point where, like the use of performance enhancing drugs, the person would be unable to qualify for "world record feats". Plus, it's technically not the user performing them, it would be the creation of the prosthetics manufacturer.

[QUOTE=DChapsfield;41606776]despite the fervor, nobody seemed to answer me here. i'm genuinely curious what the responses might be[/QUOTE] "humanness" isn't a measurable notion, though you can't make a line where someone stops being human [editline]26th July 2013[/editline] and to answer your hypothetical situation, i'd think there'd be different leagues set up for vanilla folks and augmented people

[QUOTE=DChapsfield;41606776]despite the fervor, nobody seemed to answer me here. i'm genuinely curious what the responses might be[/QUOTE] To be honest, I don't see a problem with removing parts of my humanity.