Teen Faces Charges For Encouraging Friend To Commit Suicide: Cops
100 replies, posted
Just to be clear, I am not defending what she did, I am encouraging a level headed rational discussion instead of an emotional shitfest with nothing but two second insults.
[editline]28th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47231588]Victim blaming, why are you trying to defend her? Do you think she isnt able to do anything bad because she is a girl?[/QUOTE]
Oh come on that is not even remotely close to what they were saying, and nobody has brought up gender here until you did.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;47231556]what a dumb bitch[/QUOTE]
It would probably be more fitting to describe her as cruel than dumb.
this seems to be pretty open and shut, there isn't any rationalization that can make anything she did justifiable in any way, regardless of her motives, if she did indeed send those texts
[QUOTE=LarparNar;47231597]Just to be clear, I am not defending what she did, I am encouraging a level headed rational discussion instead of an emotional shitfest with nothing but two second insults.[/QUOTE]
But that actually makes sense. Stop making sense.
Murder of the 2nd degree.
Next!
[QUOTE=LarparNar;47231587]The details of her texts to the guy aren't something we know, her mental condition is not something we know, there's a whole lot of unknowns here, which is why I think we shouldn't be making up motives and stories and be calling people names. There's a reason we have courts that judge people as objectively as possible.[/QUOTE]
It's right there in the article right from a police report.
He clearly texted her as a call for help, that he was "scared and didn't want to leave his family" and yet she shoved him to suicide.
Even states she had full knowledge of the suicide plan, she knew he was going to kill himself in the truck and even told him to "get back in the truck" when he had second thoughts.
There's no doubts that she encouraged him to kill himself and that she wanted him dead, there's no two ways about this.
[QUOTE=mini me;47231362]or maybe the guy was a complete asshole to her or did something horrible and she so was sick of his shit she wasn't thinking straight?
seriously why does facepunch always jump to the "string them up" response ..they haven't exactly given us a lot of useful information[/QUOTE]
[B]Because she fucking got him killed.[/B]
[editline]a[/editline]
Like say I get tired of your posts, so I find a way to get you killed. Should I get off the hook just because I was tired of you?
yes, we don't personally have access to the exact texts but considering she is indeed being charged there must be enough there to make the case
[QUOTE=eurocracy;47231259]Manslaughter?
That's a crime for people that didn't intend to kill someone, she clearly did, she should be charged with murder.[/QUOTE]
It's not manslaughter, or murder. You cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Roy wouldn't have done it anyway, and goading via text is not actual coercion. You can't prove that Carter actually [I]caused[/I] anything.
I don't buy that any text messages or IMs can conclusively cause anything. They were obviously a factor, but I think it's a little ridiculous to lump sending texts in with accidentally killing somebody because you were recklessly firing a gun in public (or any other typical example of manslaughter).
There should be some consequences, but I don't think you can make a real case for murder or manslaughter when Carter didn't physically cause Roy's death. Roy caused Roy's death. I hate to defend an obviously shitty person, but it also doesn't speak very highly of Roy to claim in a court of law "But for these text messages, Roy would still be alive".
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47231774]It's not manslaughter, or murder. You cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Roy wouldn't have done it anyway, and goading via text is not actual coercion. You can't prove that Carter actually [I]caused[/I] anything.
I don't buy that any text messages or IMs can conclusively cause anything. They were obviously a factor, but I think it's a little ridiculous to lump sending texts in with accidentally killing somebody because you were recklessly firing a gun in public (or any other typical example of manslaughter).
There should be some consequences, but I don't think you can make a real case for murder or manslaughter when Carter didn't physically cause Roy's death. Roy caused Roy's death. I hate to defend an obviously shitty person, but it also doesn't speak very highly of Roy to claim in a court of law "But for these text messages, Roy would still be alive".[/QUOTE]
Yeah text from people you care about is completely meaningless. The girl was manipulating him to kill himself so she could get some sort of twisted attention from it.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;47231841]are some of you actually literally saying there may be a 'justifiable' or "moral grey" reason for what she did[/QUOTE]
No.
[editline]28th February 2015[/editline]
Well not me at least, but I can't speak for what anyone else here thinks.
[editline]28th February 2015[/editline]
I'm honestly kind of confused how people can disagree with this post, I honestly don't think "there may be a 'justifiable' or "moral grey" reason for what she did", and although my posts may have been interpreted that way, that is not what I was trying to say.
Man some of you all are just straight up fucked
Is this guy maybe Paprika from SS13's TGstation? He encouraged someone to commit suicide and laughed when the person tried.
[QUOTE=Van-man;47231306]Most likely less because she wanted to make a difference, but rather to pamper her own ego.[/QUOTE]
You could also have something more sinister in which she's also looking for other vulnerable people in hopes to also encourage to commit suicide.
We can't in any good conscience say what she did was ambiguous. She's well aware of what she did, the content of her texts is out there, and she seems to be mostly consumed in regret for what will happen to -her- rather than anything resembling remorse. Try her and don't try to excuse what she did. Explain, perhaps, but not excuse. The people who are saying there's some defensible reason behind this or that we 'can't be sure' aren't playing devil's avocado, they're ignoring clearly presented fact. Active, explicit, well-documented mental and emotional coercion to make another commit suicide is definitely a crime in this dimension, I'm pretty sure, and a heavy one. Let's not fall over ourselves trying to defend her by burying the reputation of a dead young man in hypothetical 'hurdur what if he was the bad guy all along'. That's just gross.
EDIT: Not to mention the fact she, herself, hosted a fundraiser after his suicide, which seems more like capitalizing on the moment than anything else. That's just my supposition, though.
[QUOTE=mini me;47231492]Fucking thankyou!
so sick of the hatred instantly splurghed around in situations where people dont actually know shit
usually i keep quiet but its happened so much recently i was starting to think the brainless was starting to outnumber normal humans[/QUOTE]
If he was an asshole to her then why do they both have each other's number?
Why would he proficiently contact someone who he's an asshole to, to say "I'm going to commit suicide."
[QUOTE=Vitisus;47232049]We can't in any good conscience say what she did was ambiguous. She's well aware of what she did, the content of her texts is out there, and she seems to be mostly consumed in regret for what will happen to -her- rather than anything resembling remorse. Try her and don't try to excuse what she did. Explain, perhaps, but not excuse. The people who are saying there's some defensible reason behind this or that we 'can't be sure' aren't playing devil's avocado, they're ignoring clearly presented fact. Active, explicit, well-documented mental and emotional coercion to make another commit suicide is definitely a crime in this dimension, I'm pretty sure, and a heavy one. Let's not fall over ourselves trying to defend her by burying the reputation of a dead young man in hypothetical 'hurdur what if he was the bad guy all along'. That's just gross.
EDIT: Not to mention the fact she, herself, hosted a fundraiser after his suicide, which seems more like capitalizing on the moment than anything else. That's just my supposition, though.[/QUOTE]
I'm terribly sorry if what I have said has in any way come off as trying to defend her. That was not my intention at all, rather I have tried to encourage a discussion based on the things we know instead of an insult party, which is what the thread looked like it was heading towards.
Clearly she did something terrible and should be tried in court for that, but I think it's still important to stick to what we definitely know when we discuss this, instead of present theories with little backing as fact.
I hope I've made it clear enough that I have never tried to say that there is some way what she did can be morally fine, because I honestly don't think it is.
[QUOTE=eurocracy;47231259]Manslaughter?
That's a crime for people that didn't intend to kill someone, she clearly did, she should be charged with murder.[/QUOTE]
Well this case could possibly fall under "[url=http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/voluntary-manslaughter-overview.html]Voluntary Manslaughter[/url]" where she could have done it under the "Heat of Passion", "The circumstances leading to the killing must be the kind that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed; otherwise, the killing may be charged as a first-degree or second-degree murder.", because we don't know all the details of what led to her pestering.
Hypothetically, they could have had some kind of intimate relationship and the relationship went south, so the guy became distraught and depressed, while as the lady became vindictive.
She better have a good defense lawyer to keep the charge as manslaughter though, I can imagine people wanting her to be charged for murder.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47231774]It's not manslaughter, or murder. You cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Roy wouldn't have done it anyway,[/QUOTE]
He was out of the car, scared of dying, and she told him to get back in.
Nah, it's murder.
Jesus fuck... Why?
I think it's undebatable that Carter did something very wrong, but I don't think the crime of manslaughter correctly fits her actions. Although she influenced Roy to commit suicide, Roy was ultimatly the one who made the decision to end his own life. From a purely logical standpoint, Carter should not be convicted of manslaughter.
[QUOTE=sasherz;47232805]I think it's undebatable that Carter did something very wrong, but I don't think the crime of manslaughter correctly fits her actions. Although she influenced Roy to commit suicide, Roy was ultimatly the one who made the decision to end his own life. From a purely logical standpoint, [B]Carter should not be convicted of manslaughter[/B].[/QUOTE]
Damn straight this isn't manslaughter.
Murder charge all the way.
I take it that trying to persuade someone to kill themselves is considered murder and that the legal definition of murder extends beyond physical force, now? I wasn't aware that this was an actual thing.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47231774]It's not manslaughter, or murder. You cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Roy wouldn't have done it anyway, and goading via text is not actual coercion. You can't prove that Carter actually [I]caused[/I] anything.[/QUOTE]
Yeah... she hasn't been proven to actually affect his situation, right?
Except, you know, for the part where [I]he was backing out and didn't want to do it anymore and she was still encouraging him to do it despite knowing this[/I]
-snip-
[QUOTE=eurocracy;47231259]Manslaughter?
That's a crime for people that didn't intend to kill someone, she clearly did, she should be charged with murder.[/QUOTE]
Last I checked telling someone to kill themselves does not make you responsible for someone else's actions. Place this in another context where she said that in anger to his face then he did it, is that still manslaughter, she cannot and should not be held responsible for his actions here
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47231774]It's not manslaughter, or murder. You cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Roy wouldn't have done it anyway, and goading via text is not actual coercion. You can't prove that Carter actually [I]caused[/I] anything.[/QUOTE]
So I can push someone off a bridge and argue that they were probably going to jump anyway? I mean it's on you to prove that they weren't, right?
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47231774]It's not manslaughter, or murder. You cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Roy wouldn't have done it anyway, and goading via text is not actual coercion. You can't prove that Carter actually [I]caused[/I] anything.[/QUOTE]
sticks, stones, AND WORDS can hurt people. it's not rocket science.
[QUOTE=gk99;47232456]He was out of the car, scared of dying, and she told him to get back in.
Nah, it's murder.[/QUOTE]
Your claim is that telling a person to kill themselves is the same as the actual act of killing them.
[QUOTE=residntevl;47231826]Yeah text from people you care about is completely meaningless. The girl was manipulating him to kill himself so she could get some sort of twisted attention from it.[/QUOTE]
I'm genuinely curious how you are making an absolute assertion about a person's intentions. Can you read her mind?
The amount of information in this article is miniscule. It's amazing how willing people are to have a kneejerk reaction to a few sentences on the Internet.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47233299]So I can push someone off a bridge and argue that they were probably going to jump anyway? I mean it's on you to prove that they weren't, right?[/QUOTE]
Yeah that would actually be murder.
I just don't see equating speech from a completely different location with the physical act of killing.
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