Massachusetts female game developer forced to flee home after receiving death threats - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;46224220]I'd like to take a step to the side and just point this out, a lot of people have been doing this and it's been bugging me. This isn't how you argue. X is terrible, X is to be ignored, x is pretending, X should just look it up himself. If you're gonna refute him refute him with evidence and facts, not just dismiss the person talking and tell them to read it up themselves.[/QUOTE] The problem is that its the same situation as with Max. He's not here for reasonable discourse, he's not looking to be proved wrong. So I'm not going to waste my time making a comment to him, I am making one about his comment.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;46224079]I just haven't seen any compelling arguments that this is anything more than attacking women in the gaming industry.[/QUOTE] What [B]*would*[/B] be compelling evidence, in your opinion then?

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;46224220]I'd like to take a step to the side and just point this out, a lot of people have been doing this and it's been bugging me. This isn't how you argue. X is terrible, X is to be ignored, x is pretending, X should just look it up himself. If you're gonna refute him refute him with evidence and facts, not just dismiss the person talking and tell them to read it up themselves.[/QUOTE] ppl did already elsewhere, spess never actually makes a real argument, just 1 post then he fucks off when people respond properly. it's generally smart not to respond to shitposting/trolling, especially the 1 liners he's made in this thread. But yes, if someone has a legitmate point and actually wants a discussion, they get it on this board. There were a few people in the corruption in games journalism thread and they got quality responses. spess did too, at first. Just sayin'

[QUOTE=Mattk50;46224352]ppl did already elsewhere, spess never actually makes a real argument, just 1 post then he fucks off when people respond properly. it's generally smart not to respond to shitposting/trolling, especially the 1 liners he's made in this thread. But yes, if someone has a legitmate point and actually wants a discussion, they get it on this board. There were a few people in the corruption in games journalism thread and they got quality responses. spess did too, at first. Just sayin'[/QUOTE] Could you link to these "real arguments" that I was supposedly linked to but ignored? The only one I could find is just baseless conjecture about who doxxed who, which is why it's hard for me to find arguments in support of GamerGate because so much of this "evidence" is nothing but he-said she-said conjecture. [editline]13th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Dermock;46224225]You've been shown evidence of it time and time again in the numerous threads you've started/entered just to flame and troll.[/QUOTE] Numerous? I've only commented on this scandal twice.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46223390]I'd like a source on this because this is my first time hearing that. To my knowledge, the FBI hasn't said anything and people are only [I]inferring[/I] FBI involvement.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/fbi-investigating-death-threats-made-against-anita/1100-6422391/]Here.[/url] Polygon called the FBI, the FBI said yeah, and that was that. But because #gamergate is boycotting Polygon (and gamespot, and the escapist, and basically everywhere else that posted this), nobody who needed to see it saw it.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46224332]The problem is that its the same situation as with Max. He's not here for reasonable discourse, he's not looking to be proved wrong. So I'm not going to waste my time making a comment to him, I am making one about his comment.[/QUOTE] See my above posts. The only proof I've been offered consisted of an ex-boyfriend's angry rant about a game developer. He had an an obvious bias and conflict of interest, and a random forum post claiming pro-GG people had been doxxed while offering no proof as to who did the doxxing. That's all people have linked me to, so I'm not sure where this ad hominem is coming from.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224473][url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/fbi-investigating-death-threats-made-against-anita/1100-6422391/]Here.[/url] Polygon called the FBI, the FBI said yeah, and that was that. But because #gamergate is boycotting Polygon (and gamespot, and the escapist, and basically everywhere else that posted this), nobody who needed to see it saw it.[/QUOTE] They still check this stuff, they just don't provide direct links. They just go through stuff that won't give them viewership or ad revenue. Also, Escapist isn't being boycotted at all, especially not after Archon did his editors note and posted the ethical guidelines. They're actually considered reliable. And GameSpot doesn't really get brought up much.

If I were to take a page from the gamergate playbook I'd outright dismiss every death threat made toward a pro-GGer, demand proof from the police that the threats ever happened, and then outright ignore the proof when it was given to me. But instead I'll say that issuing death threats is probably the most childish thing you can do and I hope everyone who received one and who feels that it may even be slightly legitimate reports it to the police, and that the person making the threat is found and charged because this shit needs to stop. [editline]13th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46224512]They still check this stuff, they just don't provide direct links. They just go through stuff that won't give them viewership or ad revenue. Also, Escapist isn't being boycotted at all, especially not after Archon did his editors note and posted the ethical guidelines. They're actually considered reliable. And GameSpot doesn't really get brought up much.[/QUOTE] Both Gamespot and the Escapist have been on that "SJW blacklist" thing that was circulating 4chan.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224473][url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/fbi-investigating-death-threats-made-against-anita/1100-6422391/]Here.[/url] Polygon called the FBI, the FBI said yeah, and that was that. But because #gamergate is boycotting Polygon (and gamespot, and the escapist, and basically everywhere else that posted this), nobody who needed to see it saw it.[/QUOTE] Actually Escapist has been pretty good about this, they've done a good job at redeeming themselves in the eyes of GGers because they talked about it openly, reformed their ethics policy, and invited open discussion on their forums about GamerGate (which was at one point a target of a [url=http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/20/the-escapist-forums-brought-down-in-ddos-attack/]DDOS attack[/url], with the exact motives behind it being unclear.)

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46223334]it's just that his livelihood requires pandering to his rabid anti-feminist anti-"SJW" audience. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zeke129;46223334]requires pandering to his rabid anti-feminist anti-"SJW" audience.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zeke129;46223334]rabid anti-feminist anti-"SJW" audience[/QUOTE] Ahahahahaha, did you actually use that? Did you legitimately just do a blanket statement on a massive fanbase to fill your need to feel superior? Did you do exactly what every journalist who fucking started this mess with 'gamers are dead'? You literally just filled the stereotype of what exactlty people in GamerGate are fighting. [editline]13th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;46224503]See my above posts. The only proof I've been offered consisted of an ex-boyfriend's angry rant about a game developer. He had an an obvious bias and conflict of interest, and a random forum post claiming pro-GG people had been doxxed while offering no proof as to who did the doxxing. That's all people have linked me to, so I'm not sure where this ad hominem is coming from.[/QUOTE] A conflict of interest is what we're calling a call out about abuse with more evidence than what's usually given to police? Are you actually questioning a victim's claim of abuse?

[QUOTE=Swilly;46224559]Ahahahahaha, did you actually use that? Did you legitimately just do a blanket statement on a massive fanbase to fill your need to feel superior? Did you do exactly what every journalist who fucking started this mess with 'gamers are dead'? You literally just filled the stereotype of what exactlty people in GamerGate are fighting.[/QUOTE] Fighting the stereotype of being rabid by being rabid? If you don't tow the GG line and you're a moderately established game journalist you basically get blacklisted.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224536]But instead I'll say that issuing death threats is probably the most childish thing you can do and I hope everyone who received one and who feels that it may even be slightly legitimate reports it to the police, and that the person making the threat is found and charged because this shit needs to stop.[/QUOTE] Yeah, and accusing an entire unrelated movement of being guilty of it without anything pointing towards it isn't exactly helping matters in that regard.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224536]If I were to take a page from the gamergate playbook I'd outright dismiss every death threat made toward a pro-GGer, demand proof from the police that the threats ever happened, and then outright ignore the proof when it was given to me. But instead I'll say that issuing death threats is probably the most childish thing you can do and I hope everyone who received one and who feels that it may even be slightly legitimate reports it to the police, and that the person making the threat is found and charged because this shit needs to stop.[/QUOTE] I've talked about this before and while I hope that whoever is responsible for the death threats is prosecuted to the full extent of the law, I have to question how much of it is legitimate fear and how much of it is people using death threats because it's convenient. Are certain people using these death threats to say "See? We tried to warn you! This GamerGate thing is no good, this is proof positive!" and capitalizing on an unfortunate incident to push their agenda? I think that's a fair question to ask.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;46224503]... an ex-boyfriend's angry rant about a game developer...[/QUOTE] ...which led to an investigation into polygon, kotaku, escapist, etc among other websites, which revealed a lot of damning evidence dealing with corruption in the industry among independent developers and so-called "journalists." escapist reformed their ethics policy and they got shit on by other journalists and internet personalities because of it. developers have come out against these journalists claiming to be black listed and shoved into obscurity because they don't follow these sites' narrative. 10 websites on the same day all published the article "the gamer identity is dead" and "gamers are basement dwelling misogynists" as a response because they thought they knew how to control the narrative to outside readers, but they ended up insulting their own reader base. i'm going to repeat that part again for you. 10 video game journalist websites reported that "gamers" are "dead" as an identity, and that all gamers are misogynists, insulting their own reader bases. advertisers have been pulling from these sites because of this. if you don't think this is a consumer revolt and still think this is just misogyny, please watch this: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ipcWm4B3EU4[/url] it's gamergate in 60 seconds. if you don't want to watch the video or still think it's about misogyny, then there's nothing that can convince you otherwise.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;46224598]I've talked about this before and while I hope that whoever is responsible for the death threats is prosecuted to the full extent of the law, I have to question how much of it is legitimate fear and how much of it is people using death threats because it's convenient. Are certain people using these death threats to say "See? We tried to warn you! This GamerGate thing is no good, this is proof positive!" and capitalizing on an unfortunate incident to push their agenda? I think that's a fair question to ask.[/QUOTE] I think it's not that fair of a question because if Gamergate is about eradicating corruption from games journalism but they can't even eradicated it from their own movement, what credibility do they have? Occupy died because they couldn't keep the idiots out and everyone generally agreed that it was the fault of the organizers, or lack thereof. Gamergate isn't getting a pass either. For a group pushing that #notyourshield thing, they sure have a lot of people using Gamergate as their shield for terrible behaviour.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224581]If you don't tow the GG line and you're a moderately established game journalist you basically get blacklisted.[/QUOTE] No? Every website that didn't spread blatant misinformation or "gamers are dead" tier bullshit didn't get blacklisted.

[QUOTE=_Axel;46224620]No? Every website that didn't spread blatant misinformation or "gamers are dead" tier bullshit didn't get blacklisted.[/QUOTE] Then why are people like Adam Sessler, people who are quite clearly video game enthusiasts (gamers), on those blacklists? [i]It's because they're not pro-GG[/i]. They did nothing to victimize gamers, they just chose the wrong side in this insane debate.

[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;46223081]To say she was taking them seriously? I don't know. She shouldn't be receiving death threats, I don't care if she's a cancer in the "gaming" industry. Funny how people are finding it more likely that these people are lying than someone on the internet making actual death threats.[/QUOTE] I care more about a massive public figure compulsively than some nobody on Twitter saying stupid and objectively crazy and disgusting shit and I don't feel like I'm wrong for that. One person is a nobody and the other has 158,000 followers, millions of views and is making a killing traveling from one convention/university talk to the next, who is the one with more power here? I reported the posts and archived them and there have been hundreds of FBI tips sent in and at that point, the issue should be dropped because it was one person out of an entire top trending hashtag. Also it's funny that this is being mentioned considering that it was a journalist from Brazil all along.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;46224503]See my above posts. The only proof I've been offered consisted of an ex-boyfriend's angry rant about a game developer. He had an an obvious bias and conflict of interest, and a random forum post claiming pro-GG people had been doxxed while offering no proof as to who did the doxxing. That's all people have linked me to, so I'm not sure where this ad hominem is coming from.[/QUOTE] The zoe post isn't important for GG. It [I]is[/I] important if you care about abuse, victim blaming, or nepotism in SJ. The chat logs have been verified, and it's disgusting that it's been twisted into "angry rant by a jilted lover" instead of what it is, "man who was emotionally abused calls out ex girlfriend for fears that her behavior will be protected and enabled by an impenetrable clique of industry insiders". By all means, if you don't think that's something the public should ever be involved with, that's a perfectly defensible position. But the next time a woman comes out with hard proof that her boyfriend threatened her with suicide if she didn't do as he wished, I'm hoping the sentiment will remain consistent. [editline]13th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;46224641]Then why are people like Adam Sessler, people who are quite clearly video game enthusiasts (gamers), on those blacklists? [i]It's because they're not pro-GG[/i]. They did nothing to victimize gamers, they just chose the wrong side in this insane debate.[/QUOTE] or maybe it was because of that night he got drunk with zoe quinn, called the whole movement a war against women, then shilled her patreon The Escapist has hardly been "pro" GG, and yet I see nothing but praise for what they've done so far.

[QUOTE=_Axel;46224620]No? Every website that didn't spread blatant misinformation or "gamers are dead" tier bullshit didn't get blacklisted.[/QUOTE] There is also a difference between a blacklist and a boycott. A blacklist occurs when individuals in an industry collectively work to keep others out of it. A boycott occurs when consumers disagree with the practices of an entity in an industry and refuse to support said entity. One is collusion within an industry, the other is a consumer protest.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224641]Then why are people like Adam Sessler, people who are quite clearly video game enthusiasts (gamers), on those blacklists? [I]It's because they're not pro-GG[/I]. They did nothing to victimize gamers, they just chose the wrong side in this insane debate.[/QUOTE] Its not even a fucking debate, there is fucking corruption with indie devs, indie competitions, and game journalists. Plenty of other game sites have come out to denounce the main offenders and plenty of other devs have been saying how shady the scene has been as of late with integrated relationships to benefit themselves and fuck others. Its a literal cartel of indie devs and gamer journalists.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224641]Then why are people like Adam Sessler, people who are quite clearly video game enthusiasts (gamers), on those blacklists? [i]It's because they're not pro-GG[/i]. They did nothing to victimize gamers, they just chose the wrong side in this insane debate.[/QUOTE]Because he made massively idiotic and false statements about the movement in its early days and perpetuated the same false stereotypes.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;46224428]Could you link to these "real arguments" that I was supposedly linked to but ignored? The only one I could find is just baseless conjecture about who doxxed who, which is why it's hard for me to find arguments in support of GamerGate because so much of this "evidence" is nothing but he-said she-said conjecture. [editline]13th October 2014[/editline] Numerous? I've only commented on this scandal twice.[/QUOTE] Or you could read any of the dozens of threads on this whole damn thing.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224641]Then why are people like Adam Sessler, people who are quite clearly video game enthusiasts (gamers), on those blacklists? [i]It's because they're not pro-GG[/i]. They did nothing to victimize gamers, they just chose the wrong side in this insane debate.[/QUOTE] Because as a former journalist, he's involving himself in a debate about journalism ethics while hanging out in bars with Zoe Quinn and tweeting bullshit like this. [url]https://twitter.com/AdamSessler/status/521053402818564096[/url] He's losing whatever "fans" he still has and I don't see this as a particularly good business decision. He's in charge of running a consulting firm for the entertainment industry and if he's affiliating himself with these people, I'd have to be insane to take advice from him AND pay him for it. These anti-gamergate people aren't exactly the types of people involved in the entertainment industry.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224641]Then why are people like Adam Sessler, people who are quite clearly video game enthusiasts (gamers), on those blacklists? [i]It's because they're not pro-GG[/i]. They did nothing to victimize gamers, they just chose the wrong side in this insane debate.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/chRvfs5.jpg[/img] Yeah, it couldn't be because of tweeting idiotic bullshit such as this.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224619]I think it's not that fair of a question because if Gamergate is about eradicating corruption from games journalism but they can't even eradicated it from their own movement, what credibility do they have? Occupy died because they couldn't keep the idiots out and everyone generally agreed that it was the fault of the organizers, or lack thereof. Gamergate isn't getting a pass either. For a group pushing that #notyourshield thing, they sure have a lot of people using Gamergate as their shield for terrible behaviour.[/QUOTE] This point is nonsense. You can't have an open movement that exists without these people, you're saying that gamergate shouldn't exist in the first place, nor should any other social movements. Furthermore, it's not "corruption" for an open movement with no money involved to have some degenerates. You can't compare corruption in journalism to "corruption" in gamergate, the entire idea is absurd and im surprised you'd try to make that point. The journo pros all have editors, they have advertisers paying them and people frequent their sites, they have the power as authorities to choose who does what in their organization. Thats why it's an organization as opposed to a movement. Like i keep saying, if what you think here was valid, then even if everyone in support of gamergate did everyting perfectly, the opposition could just make an anonymous account and false flag till the cows came home. That's insanity. Furthermore, the sheer length gamergate and even sites like 8chan have gone to denouncing negative behavior is above and beyond what should even be necessary. Also, asking "what credibility do they have" as a means to discredit the central argument is a pretty clearcut argument from authority fallacy.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;46224503]See my above posts. The only proof I've been offered consisted of an ex-boyfriend's angry rant about a game developer. He had an an obvious bias and conflict of interest, and a random forum post claiming pro-GG people had been doxxed while offering no proof as to who did the doxxing. That's all people have linked me to, so I'm not sure where this ad hominem is coming from.[/QUOTE] Well, there is even enough proof on this very forum that it is not all about a ex calling out his girlfriend. But anyway, you wanted some proof, well, here it is then. This here is a FAQ what #gamergate is about: [url]http://gitgud.net/gamergate/gamergateop/blob/master/FAQ.md[/url] This Facepunch thread is about how Zoe Quinn emotionally abused Eron Gjoni. Although the videos explaining are put together two(!) hours long. This should tell you that Zoe Quinn isn't the innocent maiden people make her out to be. Also, Eron himself answers some questions about abuse in the thread too:[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1427470[/url] And as last, showcasing Kotaku's (One of the biggest anti-GG publications) major lack of journalistic integrity: [t]http://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1409/04/1409042144152.png[/t] And this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is much more proof of corruption in the indie game scene, especially in the IGF, and big-name indie devs bullying other indie devs into submission. A great example of that would be Zoe Quinn and Felix Maya Kramer DDOS'ing, doxxing and blacklisting The Fine Young Capitalists, a project aimed at getting more women game designers into the business. [URL="http://i.imgur.com/6SVLxB0.png"]This is the evidence of that.[/URL] But hey, you rated my other explanatory post Dumb anyway, so I hope that you are really going to read what is in my post this time.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46224581]Fighting the stereotype of being rabid by being rabid? If you don't tow the GG line and you're a moderately established game journalist you basically get blacklisted.[/QUOTE] And if you don't tow the AGG side you're black listed. But acting like a ponce and actually fulfilling the stereotype doesn't make you better than me for actually pointing out the stereotype in a rabid way. [editline]13th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;46224641]Then why are people like Adam Sessler, people who are quite clearly video game enthusiasts (gamers), on those blacklists? [i]It's because they're not pro-GG[/i]. They did nothing to victimize gamers, they just chose the wrong side in this insane debate.[/QUOTE] Adam Sessler, live on twitter, lied about hacking it in real time at a point and time. He's blacklisted because he fucking lied.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;46224730]This point is nonsense. You can't have an open movement that exists without these people, you're saying that gamergate shouldn't exist in the first place, nor should any other social movements. Furthermore, it's not "corruption" for an open movement with no money involved to have some degenerates. You can't compare corruption in journalism to "corruption" in gamergate, the entire idea is absurd and im surprised you'd try to make that point. The journo pros all have editors, they have advertisers paying them and people frequent their sites, they have the power as authorities to choose who does what in their organization. Thats why it's an organization as opposed to a movement.[/QUOTE] And also notyourshield and people using GG to push their conservative agenda have pretty much nothing to do with each other

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46223306]The FBI publicly said that they were the ones investigating it. So yes, she did report it. Of course, gamergaters would never retract their slander and clear up the misconceptions they created because it's not like they're about journalistic integrity or anything.[/QUOTE] The FBI was only involved with the CP being spammed to her and is entirely a whole different beast, not because of death threats. The death threats were just her local PD.