89-year-old on trial for allegedly being guard at Nazi death camp - Polidicks

[b]American Christian:[/b] Someone should round up all the fags and burn them! DEATH TO ALL FAGS! Wha? Oh my god, you were a German soldier during the Second World War? YOU TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE, EVIL PERSON!

So, basically, this thread contains: A bunch of people who think this guy was a high ranking Nazi official ordering executions and giggling like a schoolgirl as Jews were killed, a gaggle who think he shouldn't be held responsible because he had no choice in the matter much like the average Wehrmacht soldier, and relatively few people realizing that war crime trials after WWII focused pretty heavily on Nazi officials and not random Germans and if he wasn't one of the former this might be setting a precedent as well. Oh, and a bunch of people going "Goddamn he's old let him off." More or less?

[QUOTE=Carnotite;18667908]So, basically, this thread contains: A bunch of people who think this guy was a high ranking Nazi official ordering executions and giggling like a schoolgirl as Jews were killed, a gaggle who think he shouldn't be held responsible because he had no choice in the matter much like the average Wehrmacht soldier, and relatively few people realizing that war crime trials after WWII focused pretty heavily on Nazi officials and not random Germans and if he wasn't one of the former this might be setting a precedent as well. Oh, and a bunch of people going "Goddamn he's old let him off." More or less?[/QUOTE] More like you tried to portray one side of the the thread as villains while not actually giving an argument besides "He is old and this happened long ago," which isn't really a valid point at all.

[QUOTE=archangel125;18667859][b]American Christian:[/b] Someone should round up all the fags and burn them! DEATH TO ALL FAGS! Wha? Oh my god, you were a German soldier during the Second World War? YOU TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE, EVIL PERSON![/QUOTE] Have you ever been to America?

[QUOTE=Billiam;18668057]More like you tried to portray one side of the the thread as villains while not actually giving an argument besides "[b]He is old and this happened long ago[/b]," which isn't really a valid point at all.[/QUOTE] This. I highlighted the bits where Carnotite mentioned age: [QUOTE=Carnotite;18667908]So, basically, this thread contains: A bunch of people who think this guy was a high ranking Nazi official ordering executions and giggling like a schoolgirl as Jews were killed, a gaggle who think he shouldn't be held responsible because he had no choice in the matter much like the average Wehrmacht soldier, and relatively few people realizing that war crime trials after WWII focused pretty heavily on Nazi officials and not random Germans and if he wasn't one of the former this might be setting a precedent as well. [highlight]Oh, and a bunch of people going "Goddamn he's old let him off."[/highlight] More or less?[/QUOTE] That'll teach you, Carnotite! Thinking that old people should be allowed to do whatever they want! :downs:

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;18664279]I disagree. If he was a Guard at a Nazi Death Camp, it definitely didn't happen against his will. They didn't let just anybody guard those camps.[/QUOTE] Camp guards were the morons of the army.

[QUOTE=Fata;18666087][b]HEY U.S. YOU'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT![/b] /caps[/QUOTE] The U.S. extradited him to germany at their request. :downs:

He's 89, I don't think a death sentence is even needed when you need to be wheeled in to court and you can't open your eyes [editline]05:52PM[/editline] Plus the germans were brainwashed btw

You can't blame the soldiers for what descisions the leaders make. Obviously this guy stopped all Hitler related things (IE killing jews and being overall racist) after the war. Why should he be punished for a man's hatrid? Why should he be punished for following orders; which if he didn't, would have probably been killed.

[QUOTE=gerbils_alt_2;18669495]You can't blame the soldiers for what descisions the leaders make.[/QUOTE] but you can blame them for supporting those decisions

[QUOTE=gerbils_alt_2;18669495]You can't blame the soldiers for what decisions the leaders make. Obviously this guy stopped all Hitler related things (IE killing jews and being overall racist) after the war. Why should he be punished for a man's hatrid? Why should he be punished for following orders; which if he didn't, would have probably been killed[/QUOTE] I agree with you completely.

[QUOTE=Carne;18664343]I do not feel sorry for him at all, sure, if he was just a random guard at some deathcamp just guarding, not killing anyone, I would probably have felt sorry for him. But when he's responisble for that many deaths, heck, he can rot in hell for all I care.[/QUOTE] are you ignorant or something? he didn't kill 28,000 people, he was 'partially responsible' just because he's the fucking guard if [I]ANYONE[/I] killed 28,000 people single-handedly or otherwise, then yeah, fuck them and just do a death sentence.

[QUOTE=evilking1;18665965]Yeah all US marines do is pillage and rape in Iraq.[/QUOTE] no, very few do, and that's bad. but the emphasis on sparing civillians is just higher today than back in ww2 [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;18667514]Since when was it simply "ungentlemanly" to think it is right to kill civilians. yes, war = enemies, enemies hurt each other. but enemies are not civilians, and the holocaust was in no way a sane attempt at war. It was a sick reason to kill millions who were outcast. Your job as a soldier does not give you the right to kill civilians.[/QUOTE] that's true, but there weren't such a big an emphasis on the "spare all civillians" thing, the only countries who actually showed any kindness in that war was the british, and later the americans did too. applying todays war standards to 1944 and trying a man for what happened back then is bullshit. and shooting the messenger is really pathetic, and that's what thei're doing. he just followed orders, it was that or die, or have your family deported.

[QUOTE=Bomimo;18670459]no, very few do, and that's bad. but the emphasis on sparing civillians is just higher today than back in ww2 that's true, but there weren't such a big an emphasis on the "spare all civillians" thing, the only countries who actually showed any kindness in that war was the british, and later the americans did too. applying todays war standards to 1944 and trying a man for what happened back then is bullshit. and shooting the messenger is really pathetic, and that's what thei're doing. he just followed orders, it was that or die, or have your family deported.[/QUOTE] Your were not forced into this job. You have to aspire to this position and were trained for it. All this "he would have been killed" talk is bullshit. He knew full well what he was getting into.

[QUOTE=Jakobi;18664316]Its not like he was like I hate jews so I want to guard the camp. Most Germans were brainwashed.[/QUOTE] If you went to Germany in the 80's and talked to the vets you would know that they willingly served. I met a Luftwaffe officer Bonn once, his words are as follows, "Well when Hitler was in power a woman could walk the streets at night without fear." And another Wehrmacht guy that got his eye torn out by a Russian at a POW camp in 1950. He was allowed to return home in 1953 after his capture in 1943. Nice guys, not brainwashed at all. They knew what country they were fighting for. Can't say the same for SS blokes though. [editline]09:51PM[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;18669624]but you can blame them for supporting those decisions[/QUOTE] Uh I think you're looking for this guy [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele[/url]

No reason to hold a man on trial that's stupid

[QUOTE=DrMortician;18665989]You realize this would be like 60 years from now arresting US soldiers for following orders to invade Iraq.[/QUOTE] Arresting soldiers who murdered innocent Iraqis and has their crimes swept under the rug, maybe. 60 years of time doesn't bring back any of the people he allegedly helped to murder, therefore his crime still stands. Better late than never.

[b]BBC Facts[/b] 89 years old, health failing Described by prosecution as low-ranking guard No death camp survivors to testify against him personally Prosecutors relying heavily on about 30 joint plaintiffs and circumstantial evidence So literally, this guy was a guy might've been just standing around the death camp. Gitmo guards tortured people, but the ones who just stand by the doorway doesn't. Do we even have proof he actually contributed? Do we have photos or testimonies that he even shot one jew in point blank range? I detest Nazi's, but the BBC facts make the case hardly credible. I mean come on. [b][i] No witnesses? Circumstantial evidence? Low ranking guard?[/i][/b] He might've well been one of those German Soldiers who hid during an actual fight and just stood there.

The irony is that some nazi-hunters are worse than the Nazis they're prosecuting.

Well If thats the case, all germans/nazi's who participated in the camps, collections, the transportation drivers(of stuff the jews were transported to the camps in), staff, officers, builders(those who made the gas chambers), gaurds, and pretty much 1/4 of germany or more should get fined, have court cases, jail time and what not. For those that are alive.

So if we find a 90 year old janitor for one of the barracks used to train guard/ soldiers, we will pursue a similar course of action? He was a cog in the Nazi machine, it's the operators that need to be punished.

He's already rotting into death, let him keep going or prolong the process.

didn't they give most of the guards armed forces amnesty after the war?

Wasn't there a similar thread? I'm fucking sure there was a thread like this months/years ago.

And thus, with carbon tracing and family tree tracing, we find a person to be a descendant of a higher-up during the Crusades. Would we still prosecute them?

[QUOTE=RichardNixon;18664382]You could not be a coward and fight back.[/QUOTE] Yeah punch those firing squads in the fucking face

[QUOTE=RichardNixon;18664382]You could not be a coward and fight back.[/QUOTE] yeah, that'll totally work [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kP8UNjn95o[/media]

This is rediculous. He's 90 years old for god's sake, he doesn't deserve to be in court, no matter if he served with the Nazis or not. He was quite probably drafted and I don't see the majority of the German public being prosecuted for what happened during WWII. People need to leave it alone and move on. Yes it was a horrible event, but the sooner we let go of blaming people for it, the sooner we can just learn from it and move on.

[QUOTE=Dmarine;18676425]The irony is that some nazi-hunters are worse than the Nazis they're prosecuting.[/QUOTE] How is bringing someone to trail the equivalent of executing men, women and children? Not just in this case but abroad.

[QUOTE=TH89;18668103]Have you ever been to America?[/QUOTE] although it's few american christians who behave like this, it's still only american christians who do so. screaming BURN THA FAGS!!! and NAZISM IS WRONG!! in the same or consequetive breaths is selfcontradictory, as is calling yourself a christians when you condemn and demean other people (which is clearly not allowed by god)