89-year-old on trial for allegedly being guard at Nazi death camp - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Bomimo;18712321]the government is always representants of the public. that's what they're for.[/QUOTE] Ideally, that would be true. Realisticly, it is not.

[QUOTE=noctune9;18713926]Ideally, that would be true. Realisticly, it is not.[/QUOTE] that's true, i never implied that they were successful in their endeavour. the danish government is one of the few that really manages to represent it's citizens to oter countries. remember the Muhammed thing? it was a shit thing, but it really demonstrated the strength of our government, even if it cost Arla some income, it retained the danish ideals of freedom of speech (almost total).

[QUOTE=angelangel;18711403]Yes of course civilians died during the Iraq War. But how can you compare this to the systematic killing of millions of Jews by the Nazis? [editline]05:01PM[/editline] PvtCupcakes, to say that you, "don't see a difference," is incredibly stupid.[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to diminish the Holocaust in any way. I'm saying that killing civilians, or even "terrorists" is just as bad as the Holocaust. Just because people think the US has good intentions in Iraq doesn't make it okay to go in there and kill people. [editline]10:34AM[/editline] [QUOTE=BusterBluth;18712013]The U.S policy is not to systematically exterminate a entire civilian population. Most civilian deaths since the start of the Iraq war have been caused by Iraq's themselves going at each other. Yes there have been instances were soldiers have murdered civilians but is is highly restricted by the U.S military and all other coalition forces. There is a difference between a independent soldiers shooting civilians and a government supported extermination.[/QUOTE] But the US is still to blame for destabilizing the country. [QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;18712404]Oh yes, I'm sure that killing civilians through crossfire is exactly the same to systematically gassing and burning as many Jews as quickly as possible in a bid to eliminate them from the gene pool.[/QUOTE] From a civilian perspective, it doesn't really matter if you were killed in a government supported extermination, hit by crossfire or whatever. Either way you're dead. [editline]10:42AM[/editline] Really my point was, if it's a war crime to have killed Jews in the Holocaust, why is okay to start a war and kill people when the only difference is the people we're exterminating have guns. We were exterminating communists from Vietnam, but apparently that wasn't a war crime like it was to have been a Nazi. Now we're exterminating "terrorists" from Iraq and Afghanistan, but that seems to be okay too.

I'm late to this thread, but goddamn, this man has probably suffered enough mental torment knowing what he helped the Nazis do during the war. He doesn't need to be put on trial for something he did in order to avoid being killed. That's just a little ridiculous. He's 89 for Christ's sake. He won't live for much longer. Also, I realize that he was a soldier and knew what he was getting into. But when worst comes to worst, lots of people just want to survive. Not to mention, there isn't enough evidence to support that this man actually killed anyone. Which is the main reason that this case is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Bomimo;18712321] watch jarhead, note sickos, divide by 100 for hollywoodness and it's still a catastrophe. then proceed to listen to firsthand witnesses of troopers bashing down doors, raping or killing without a word or with gross taunts. back in vietnam, we got proof of two things. (may have been korea though) 1. americans have no idea of other cultures, that was excusable for a month or so, after that they should learn. 2. their temper is way out of order and aggressive when in bunches with rifles. proof: when soldiers interrogated citizens on the streets, nice and quiet and the poor folk didn't know english, they'd show their embarrasment by laughing while looking down. that's custom. but americans mistook it for laughing at them proceeding to beating them, and later just killing the fuckers right away. why? because they simply don't want to have a clue. if a single official had briefed them on this after the first few incidents, we wouldn't have shit, but no... it went to shits. how can you prove to me that all the pissyness about arabian all meaning "i'll fucking blow you to bits" wouldn't lead americans to immediately or after short attempts at communication to conclute "the fucker's insane" what if he, while trying to talk to them approached? they'd shoot him, why? because american culture applies to everyone, accepting other people is just way beyond comprehension. had they had a translator (which they do have) or had tackled the situation differently than raising arms and screaming themselves hoarse at a civillian, you'd look better in our eyes. you don't know if americans could be just as ruthless at times...[/QUOTE] yes every american soldier in iraq war were rapists, baby killers, and ruthless murderers.

[quote]proof: when soldiers interrogated citizens on the streets, nice and quiet and the poor folk didn't know english, they'd show their embarrasment by laughing while looking down. that's custom. but americans mistook it for laughing at them proceeding to beating them, and later just killing the fuckers right away. why? because they simply don't want to have a clue. if a single official had briefed them on this after the first few incidents, we wouldn't have shit, but no... it went to shits.[/quote] Iraqis consider showing the bottom of shoes as offensive. Are you saying that they should learn to think otherwise because they "should be used to it by now"? You can't expect someone to so willingly accept and be used to a culture right away. Even if they do know what it means, they are so exposed to their OWN culture, that their own culture's meaning will come to them before the foreign culture does. That's usually the way people work. American soldiers are not all rapists and murderers dude. Get a grip.

[QUOTE=angelangel;18713081]You misunderstand, now thanks to Hollywood, every single German soldier in WW2 is labelled a Nazi. So now this poor old man is being convicted as if he was the one that drafted the Final Solution. [editline]10:09PM[/editline] Also, when I said, "Nazis," I guess I meant to say, "Nazi Germany."[/QUOTE] My grandma actully was in WW2 so thank you, but you don't need to tell me where is my knowledge from.

A bit late for a trail isn't it? An odd 60 years?

[QUOTE=angelangel;18711403]Yes of course civilians died during the Iraq War. But how can you compare this to the systematic killing of millions of Jews by the Nazis? [editline]05:01PM[/editline] PvtCupcakes, to say that you, "don't see a difference," is incredibly stupid.[/QUOTE] Actually, from what I can see, you have been brainwashed into thinking that the Nazi killings were for no reason. You also support the anti-Nazi march because propaganda has led you to believe that Germans are evil people, when in fact, if you read up on the topic, you will find that a loaf of bread was well over $500 in equivalent to today's money, in that time. The Iraq war is all the same, people were killed by a greater force. But what sickens me about your response is the fact you support one side of a war without knowing even the motives of the other. Before you respond, take some time to read up on the topic, as you prove invalid at many of your points. While in many ways the killings were different, they were, in many ways, the same. The Jews ruled the German economy unfairly. But the Germans response to it was wrong. Thanks. Also, don't come up with that shitty 'oh so u poast a wall of text to maek urself seem bigor' response. I have heard it all before.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;18715022]yes every american soldier in iraq war were rapists, baby killers, and ruthless murderers.[/QUOTE] did i say that? CAN'T you fucking think for yourself and then conclude: "ok, he must mean some of the american soldiers, cuz they can't all be psycologically unstable since our military does it's best to keep em out." what the ------- please turn on your lightbulb, thankyou. and there are people who loose their respect for human lives when in war, loose restraint. and then there are some who returns with a greater respect for human life. [editline]08:45PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Pascall;18715092]Iraqis consider showing the bottom of shoes as offensive. Are you saying that they should learn to think otherwise because they "should be used to it by now"? You can't expect someone to so willingly accept and be used to a culture right away.[/QUOTE] it's common respect to atleast follow parts of their culture that you can understand and respect, is that too much to ask? i thought everyone was raised to do so. it's common good manners. when i was in america i followed the part of culture i was expected to follow, that meant walk though metal detectors at amusement parks without hazzle, respecting that which earned respect in the american peoples minds, such as the memorial at nasa and such. at High school i was expected to follow the american hierachy between teens, which is pretty much the same as where i live but for a few differences. respect for the teachers, because they deserved it and treated their students as individuals with a mind of their own. respected the beliefs of the christian family i lived with. i even had pancakes for breakfast. if the army could do what i did, respect the customs of the environment they are in, instead of changing anything around themselves outsides of their country into Mini-america. respect for customs is the first step to peace and understanding. and if you want to duck out of less important parts you say " sorry, i'm not quite comfortable doing this" not "get away from me, NOW. ON THE GROUND!"

He shoudn't be trialed. Blame the leaders not the followers.

[QUOTE=noctune9;18666677]Nice strawman. Invasion is not genocide and not a war crime.[/QUOTE] I'm sure there's a lot of people who feel that the invasion of Iraq is genocide and a war crime. [QUOTE=angelangel;18711182]Are you honestly comparing the Holocaust to the American occupation of Iraq?[/QUOTE] If we're arguing from a moral standpoint it's outrageous to compare them. But morals don't belong in arguments.

Should jail US troops for fighting in IRAQ and doing war crimes, durr.

Why is everyone so worked up about wwii era nazis. The war is over, allies won. Point proven. Get on with your lives, we got iraq to rebuild now and to to continue making no progress in afganistan.

[QUOTE=Sickle;18715418]Actually, from what I can see, you have been brainwashed into thinking that the Nazi killings were for no reason. You also support the anti-Nazi march because propaganda has led you to believe that Germans are evil people, when in fact, if you read up on the topic, you will find that a loaf of bread was well over $500 in equivalent to today's money, in that time. The Iraq war is all the same, people were killed by a greater force. But what sickens me about your response is the fact you support one side of a war without knowing even the motives of the other. Before you respond, take some time to read up on the topic, as you prove invalid at many of your points. While in many ways the killings were different, they were, in many ways, the same. The Jews ruled the German economy unfairly. But the Germans response to it was wrong. Thanks. Also, don't come up with that shitty 'oh so u poast a wall of text to maek urself seem bigor' response. I have heard it all before.[/QUOTE] Are you serious

Their wasting time on trials for a guy thats near his last breaths instead of using said time in more important matters... :bravo:... Makes total sense to convict a man close to his death for something that happened like 50 years ago...

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;18711111]What's the difference between American soldiers killing people in Iraq and a Nazi killing Jews? I can't see the difference. How can anyone say that one type of killing is okay, while another is not okay.[/QUOTE] Because the iraqi civilian death toll is being estimated at 95,000 since the invasion began. That number would be exponentially bigger if Saddam Hussein were still in power. In Europe, 5.7 [B]million [/B]innocent german jews out of 7.8 million died. Media tagged because it's disturbing, but I'm trying to make a point. [media]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/Einsatzgruppen_Killing.jpg[/media] [B]That's the fucking difference.[/B] [editline]04:25PM[/editline] And I'm not justifying the American Invasion, I think that the war should have been over as soon as Saddam was dead. [editline]04:27PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Sickle;18715418]Actually, from what I can see, you have been brainwashed into thinking that the Nazi killings were for no reason. You also support the anti-Nazi march because propaganda has led you to believe that Germans are evil people, when in fact, if you read up on the topic, you will find that a loaf of bread was well over $500 in equivalent to today's money, in that time. The Iraq war is all the same, people were killed by a greater force. But what sickens me about your response is the fact you support one side of a war without knowing even the motives of the other. Before you respond, take some time to read up on the topic, as you prove invalid at many of your points. While in many ways the killings were different, they were, in many ways, the same. The Jews ruled the German economy unfairly. But the Germans response to it was wrong. Thanks. Also, don't come up with that shitty 'oh so u poast a wall of text to maek urself seem bigor' response. I have heard it all before.[/QUOTE] Wow. Just wow.

[QUOTE=Sickle;18715418]You also support the anti-Nazi march because propaganda has led you to believe that Germans are evil people, when in fact, if you read up on the topic, you will find that a loaf of bread was well over $500 in equivalent to today's money, in that time.[/QUOTE] Ha. Ha ha ha. Hahahahaha. [B][I]No.[/I][/B] I mean, really, what amateur guesswork is this? [QUOTE=Sickle;18715418]The Iraq war is all the same, people were killed by a greater force.[/QUOTE] Well, generally soldiers, militants, insurgents and the like are ready for death and expecting it to some extent, which is why people generally don't consider the deaths of soldiers to be as bad as the deaths of civilians. The huge, overwhelming difference you seem to be forgetting is that the Holocaust was a [I]systematic execution of civilians[/I] whereas in the majority of conflicts in the middle east, civilian casualties are an [I]accident.[/I]

If he's found guilty he should be gassed with zyklon B.

A holocaust is different than the occupation of a country you fucking idiots.

[QUOTE=DrMortician;18716622]I'm sure there's a lot of people who feel that the invasion of Iraq is genocide and a war crime.[/QUOTE] Your point? This is not about what people feel, but what we know.

The court is disgracing themselves by doing this.

[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;18725653]A holocaust is different than the occupation of a country you fucking idiots.[/QUOTE] A lot of people in this thread don't seem to understand that. [QUOTE=Bomimo;18716435] it's common respect to atleast follow parts of their culture that you can understand and respect, is that too much to ask? i thought everyone was raised to do so. it's common good manners. when i was in america i followed the part of culture i was expected to follow, that meant walk though metal detectors at amusement parks without hazzle, respecting that which earned respect in the american peoples minds, such as the memorial at nasa and such. at High school i was expected to follow the american hierachy between teens, which is pretty much the same as where i live but for a few differences. respect for the teachers, because they deserved it and treated their students as individuals with a mind of their own. respected the beliefs of the christian family i lived with. i even had pancakes for breakfast. if the army could do what i did, respect the customs of the environment they are in, instead of changing anything around themselves outsides of their country into Mini-america. respect for customs is the first step to peace and understanding. and if you want to duck out of less important parts you say " sorry, i'm not quite comfortable doing this" not "get away from me, NOW. ON THE GROUND!"[/QUOTE] Not everyone thinks like you, dude. Sad fact, but it's true. You can't apply your logic to everyone because you are you and they are them. They might not be so willing to accept or they might not be able to understand what another culture is about.

[QUOTE=Ker‎o;18715195]My grandma actully was in WW2 so thank you, but you don't need to tell me where is my knowledge from.[/QUOTE] Oh toss, everyone has had a grandma or grandpa in WW2.

[QUOTE=noctune9;18726609]Your point? This is not about what people feel, but what we know.[/QUOTE] We know the guy is an 89 year old who's probably going to die any day now and has likely suffered a horrible past 60 years. Making an example out of him is barbaric.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;18685882]lol if you think being the nazi equivalent of a cub scout is comparable to actually being present at a concentration camp and being prepared to use a weapon to stop people from fleeing, you're a silly person[/QUOTE] If I remember correctly it was Hitlerjungend defending the Reichstag alongside die hard SS survivors come may of 45'. The Hitlerjungend were deployed with SS battalions all over Europe, in and out of combat roles. This thread is going bananas, it's an 89 year old Ukrainian expat turned guard tower drone for a couple years at a POW camp. What is the big deal here? I have a feeling there are many children calling for his death.

Bullshit. He doesn't know any better, the Nazi propoganda caused a lot of shit to go down. Seriously, he's fucking 89. Who cares anymore? It's not like he caused the fucking Holocaust.