[QUOTE=Conscript;19939038]in favor of the state :downs:
seriously. for the last 60 years every time we got into a war we used something to make it look justified and make us look good.[/QUOTE]
Uhh no.
Sanctions on trade?
Didn't that help cause the depression of the late 1920's and early 1930's?
[QUOTE=Lankist;19939655]Uhh no.[/QUOTE]
uhh yea
the whole theme of fighting communism was protecting 'freedom and democracy' while simultaneously installing and supporting unpopular dictators and waging war on peoples' movements.
[editline]03:35PM[/editline]
we had a discussion on this before lankist and you just told me we just apologized for all of this
[QUOTE=Conscript;19939741]uhh yea
the whole theme of fighting communism was protecting 'freedom and democracy' while simultaneously installing and supporting unpopular dictators and waging war on peoples' movements.
[editline]03:35PM[/editline]
we had a discussion on this before lankist and you just told me we just apologized for all of this[/QUOTE]
If what you imply were true we would not be having this discussion.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19939801]If what you imply were true we would not be having this discussion.[/QUOTE]
it is lanky
in this thread
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=764190&[/url]
[quote=lankist;44343](on chinese repression) I don't recall the U.S. government ever doing that in its two centuries of existence.[/quote]
[quote=conscript;44343]Augusto Pinochet? Nicaraguan Death squads? Contra? The other many, many interventions, coups, and juntas that resulted in military or reactionary dictatorships in the third world? Tossing out French and Italian elections because communists had a good chance at winning? Allowing very harsh responses to the labor movement? Wide-scale repression in response to the first red scare? Supporting the last fascist government in Europe just because it was anti-communist (Franco's spain)?
Yeah, freedom and democracy
We care about money before we care about our freedom and democracy.[/quote]
[quote=lankist;434334]And we admitted that shit
Edited:
And publicly lambasted our government for doing it
Edited:
And our government knocked it the fuck off for the most part
Edited:
You seem to be equating shit our government did sixty years ago to the modern government and its citizens when we've admitted to making past mistakes and made a serious effort to fix them.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Second-gear-of-mgear;19935396]Lololol 1954 is the year all of their military tech is from.[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked, the PLA is quite modernized.
Considering how both countries depend on each other this won't end well.
[QUOTE=Conscript;19940244]it is lanky
in this thread
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=764190&[/url][/QUOTE]
I am not talking about the other thread. I am talking about you saying the US government covers shit up and finds justification for wars.
They try from time to time but they fail.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19941200]I am not talking about the other thread. I am talking about you saying the US government covers shit up and finds justification for wars.
They try from time to time but they fail.[/QUOTE]
They fail? Sometimes I think you don't have enough respect for the government. They're pretty good at what they do.
The Korean war was portrayed as communist aggression against free and democratic korea. There is no mention of the fact that the 'Republic' of korea at the time was a dictatorship, under the fascist Syngman Rhee. There was no mention of the numerous border conflicts he initiated with the DPRK, nor the declarations of its forceful annexation. There was no mention of his slaughter of south korean communists (who were hardly a minority) with the assistance of US army officers. There was no mention of the fact that the Republic of Korea was illegally and forcefully established, contrary to the legal, but communist state the Korean Peoples' Republic. Experiencing all of this, if I was Kim Il Sung I would have charged through the country, too.
There's a lot to be forgotten about korea. Convenient that it also happens to be the forgotten war.
The Vietnam War was portrayed again as communist aggression against a free and democratic country. But again the south end was a dictatorship, under the army colonel Nguyen Thieu. His government was, similar to south korea, corrupt and repressive. He was possibly the biggest hypocrite ever, always speaking of freedom yet centralizing the government under him and his allies and fighting to make vietnam a neo-colony. The vietnam war was a continuation war, part of its struggle for independence. Nationalism had as much to do with it as much as communism did.
Shall I go on?
Both of those wars ended with significant civilian dissension.
[editline]05:46PM[/editline]
Shall I mention the Iraq War and how well that went for your claims?
[editline]05:46PM[/editline]
Congress may have believed the President but there were mass protests Day 1.
What is the point of War? Why can't the world just unite as one so we can improve technology and spread our influence out into space.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19942780]Both of those wars ended with significant civilian dissension.[/quote]
Only the vietnam war did, and only because the american government targeted traditionalists and others stuck in the 50's with their propaganda, and also because of the draft.
Opposition to the war only became significant after the US refused to stop the draft, and the war in vietnam was getting nowhere. Early on, it was supported with the common consensus being that it was part of a greater struggle against communism.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19942780]Shall I mention the Iraq War and how well that went for your claims?[/quote]
I would fault the Bush administration's incompetence at selling the war for its opposition. Regardless of that, nothing came out of the anti-war movement other then everyone hates bush now.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19942780]Congress may have believed the President but there were mass protests Day 1.[/QUOTE]
Not on the scale that it was supported.
[url]http://www.aei.org/docLib/200701121_roody2.pdf[/url]
[quote]IRAQ: THE BUILD-UP TO WAR: All the major polls leading up to the ultimatum that
President Bush gave Saddam Hussein on March 17, 2003 showed majority support for military
action against Iraq.[/quote]
Includes a chart on poll results, too.
The amount of arrogance that's been displayed in this thread is what makes me ashamed to be an American and give them good cause to see us in the light they do.
[QUOTE=Killuah;19933156]Half of the US economy depends on buying shit from China.
I mean come on, China has 1954 trillion dollars in foreign exchange.[/QUOTE]
If worst comes to worst we'll just start outsourcing to Africa.
[QUOTE=Conscript;19943006]words[/QUOTE]
and within less than 5 years the vast majority of individuals think the war is dumb.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19944156]and within less than 5 years the vast majority of individuals think the war is dumb.[/QUOTE]
And 20 years from now it will be forgotten, rehabilitated, or both.
Conjecture has no place.
:rolleyes: Hardly conjecture. It has happened with every little bad thing we've gotten ourselves into, as I explained above and in the other thread.
Regardless there is still popular support for another pretty pointless war, the war in afghanistan. What about that?
Predicting the future is conjecture until it actually happens.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19933121]Half of China's economy depends on selling shit to us.
They do not want to play hardball with us.[/QUOTE]
you sir are really ignorant
Predicting the future is prediction, which is based on available evidence. Conjecture is baseless.
[QUOTE=Conscript;19944380]Predicting the future is prediction, which is based on available evidence. Conjecture is baseless.[/QUOTE]
I see no evidence. I see you claiming people have forgotten about Vietnam and the Korean War, which is ironic considering you and I remember quite well.
Along with anyone who has ever seen MASH.
You seem to think that because a war is over and it is no longer in the forefront of politics means people have forgotten entirely.
I guess you didn't read my post. I never said people forgot the wars, I said they forgot much of the important details, without a doubt owing much to the government, other then the fact that we were involved in them.
I thought Taiwan was going to transition back into China..
[QUOTE=Conscript;19944439]I guess you didn't read my post. I never said people forgot the wars, I said they forgot much of the important details, without a doubt owing much to the government, other then the fact that we were involved in them.[/QUOTE]
It isn't the government's fault not everyone is a historian.
And here people call ME paranoid.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;19944534]I thought Taiwan was going to transition back into China..[/QUOTE]
No, Taiwan has always seen itself as a separate country while china has always said they were under it's jurisdiction and law.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19944598]It isn't the government's fault not everyone is a historian.
And here people call ME paranoid.[/QUOTE]
No, but it is the government's fault that it takes a historian to know such things.
[QUOTE=Conscript;19945223]No, but it is the government's fault that it takes a historian to know such things.[/QUOTE]
Yes it's the government's fault not everyone in the nation has a PHD.
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