Germany joins France's grand coalition against the Islamic State, deploys jets and a frigate to Syri - Polidicks

[QUOTE=EuSKalduna;49197494]Hopefully the momentum will continue. It's good to see nations come together against is[/QUOTE] Bombing them won't do fuck all though since most of the terrorists are hiding. They're just killing the stragglers most of them are hiding. The cost of doing the air campains costs more than what they are actually worth.

[QUOTE=coldroll5;49205786]Bombing them won't do fuck all though since most of the terrorists are hiding. They're just killing the stragglers most of them are hiding. The cost of doing the air campains costs more than what they are actually worth.[/QUOTE] Ah yes, the most effective technique in war - just hide! War won. An Army runs on it's stomach and the proverbial stomach these days is Oil, Ammunition and Weapons. IS fighters can hide - it's not nearly so easy to hide supply depots, headquarters and weapon stashes. With today's technology, even the layman observer can have half an idea of battle positions (google Ukraine or Syria livemap) - airstrike work very well to stem the tide of momentum of a push or rally an embattled defense. War without air power is hell and surely it is for ISIS too.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49199319]Don't get me wrong, I'm glad this is happening, but I am [I]slightly[/I] annoyed that some people are acting like this is the first Germany has done to support the region. They've supplied humanitarian aid, (a lot of it) surplus military equipment to the Peshmerga and YPG both, and they've graciously let their citizens join anti-ISIS groups without threatening prosecution.[/QUOTE] They've been providing g36s [IMG]http://www.dailystar.com.lb/dailystar/Pictures/2014/10/06/353830_img650x420_img650x420_crop.jpg[/IMG] [editline]29th November 2015[/editline] and g3s

[QUOTE=The fox;49199659]Interesting and a very nice development; Though, I do wonder what the ISIS/Jihadists in Germany will think of this, let alone the hundreds of thousands of middle eastern people they've brought into the country, will feel about this.[/QUOTE] Those hundreds of thousands of middle eastern people =/= ISIS sympathizers lol wonder why there's a need to mention them. At this point more middle eastern people are getting murdered by ISIS than westerners.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;49199621]How do you clean out ISIS with bombs, maybe you can keep them militarily powerless by bombing them but their cause is still there? How many people do you have to kill before you discourage enough people to join them to consider ISIS erased? [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] I don't think you fight extremism with extreme measures such as violence, so while it might keep them in check it's not an ultimate solution right? :v:[/QUOTE] No, we should hug them and hope they stop after decapitating 75% of us. Because violence is bad. These savages won't listen to reason, they want to die anyway, why not send them to their deaths quicker?

[QUOTE=The fox;49199659]Interesting and a very nice development; Though, I do wonder what the ISIS/Jihadists in Germany will think of this, let alone the hundreds of thousands of middle eastern people they've brought into the country, will feel about this.[/QUOTE] Uh, the 100s,000s of middle eastern people in Germany are probably cheering because ISIS is the biggest threat to them in their homeland.

[QUOTE=Inspector N;49208927]Ah yes, the most effective technique in war - just hide! War won. An Army runs on it's stomach and the proverbial stomach these days is Oil, Ammunition and Weapons. IS fighters can hide - it's not nearly so easy to hide supply depots, headquarters and weapon stashes. With today's technology, even the layman observer can have half an idea of battle positions (google Ukraine or Syria livemap) - airstrike work very well to stem the tide of momentum of a push or rally an embattled defense. War without air power is hell and surely it is for ISIS too.[/QUOTE] Airstrikes don't deny land to the enemy though. The US tried to win Vietnam War through body counts instead of territory gained and look what happened - 10 years and nothing to show for it. Sure, you could try to coordinate with the Kurdish rebels or the anti-Islamist rebels in Syria but they have no formal organization nor are a disciplined force to do a conventional coordinated attack with airstrikes. The only way western airstrikes will [I]ever[/I] be effective against the Islamic State is if it is coordinated and supplemented with western ground forces advancing during and afterward, which [I]no[/I] western nation will dare do.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49210896]Airstrikes don't deny land to the enemy though. The US tried to win Vietnam War through body counts instead of territory gained and look what happened - 10 years and nothing to show for it. Sure, you could try to coordinate with the Kurdish rebels or the anti-Islamist rebels in Syria but they have no formal organization nor are a disciplined force to do a conventional coordinated attack with airstrikes. The only way western airstrikes will [I]ever[/I] be effective against the Islamic State is if it is coordinated and supplemented with western ground forces advancing during and afterward, which [I]no[/I] western nation will dare do.[/QUOTE] Yes that would be the ideal and more permanent solution however it is of course complicated on the ground in Syria. Nonetheless, I still believe targeted air strikes do their part to damage ISIS and are not ineffectual.

[QUOTE=Inspector N;49211578]Yes that would be the ideal and more permanent solution however it is of course complicated on the ground in Syria. Nonetheless, I still believe targeted air strikes do their part to damage ISIS and are not ineffectual.[/QUOTE] It's nothing more than a feel good measure at the tax payer's expense.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49211861]It's nothing more than a feel good measure at the tax payer's expense.[/QUOTE] It's hard to argue that ISIS would not have advanced further with more armour at their disposal

[QUOTE=Inspector N;49215708]It's hard to argue that ISIS would not have advanced further with more armour at their disposal[/QUOTE] The problem is, they're advancing [I]period[/I]

[QUOTE=Hyperbole;49209548]No, we should hug them and hope they stop after decapitating 75% of us. Because violence is bad. These savages won't listen to reason, they want to die anyway, why not send them to their deaths quicker?[/QUOTE] I don't know how you percieved my post to make this reply, I'm just questioning the effeciency of the western worlds military involvement in the middle east.

The airstrikes may hurt them, but they recoup and capture more to compensate. Only way to stop them is a ground operation, working with various groups in the area, and more than "targeted" airstrikes. Problem is half the groups fighting ISIS, hate the other half, no one wants to work together, corruption is rampant, we give aid to the wrong people, etc.