Valve is the most desirable employer in the video game industry, study finds - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zatar963;45747613]I disagree actually. Post 2010, Valve has released one of my favourite games ever (Portal 2), a MOBA that has a seriously innovative tournament system and does free-to-play right, and a growing competitive FPS. They were also ahead of everyone else when it came to VR, doing years of R&D and giving most of their info to Oculus. [/QUOTE] Can't dispute about dota or its popularity - like I said, it's their current pet project and they do a good deal supporting it, except when they miss self imposed deadlines and refuse to even acknowledge it until you get a car company caught in the crossfire. It wouldn't have been even a fraction as bad if they had released a statement saying 'sorry it's gonna be late.' You can't say valve spammed volvo but goddamn they handled it poorly extremely poorly, which is completely their fault. [QUOTE=Zatar963;45747613]Source? [on partial team usage] [/QUOTE] Once again due to lack of communication, we can only speculate on team distribution, but we know that internal structures are fragmented - look at recent articles about mixed reactions to reporting security exploits. Members of the TF2 team gave out free hats, other 'teams' did little to nothing, I think a few got punitive responses, none really provided any kind of reward that you'd get from other companies, and none of it could be considered coherent. If you've ever dealt with the SFM, it's easy to see that is like their biggest TF2 related afterthought. Last I checked, it still bombs when you try to upload anything to the workshop and gets some attention about once a year. On the other hand, TF2, DOTA, and CSGO workshops get a great deal of attention and newer and better tools to drive community involvement. I get that there's really no money involved in SFM development, but it's like dealing with two different companies. [QUOTE=Zatar963;45747613]It doesn't really matter how it compares to competitors. I don't think Valve is looking for mass adoption of Source. As long as they're able to make great games with it, and modders are able to make great mods with it, I don't really care how cutting edge it is. The first Source engine stopped being modern just a few years after it's release, but it's fared fine.[/QUOTE] It should and does. The engine is the core of your game, and will influence community involvement more then any other single factor. Anyone that spends a great deal of time working with source knows how much of a mess it is. The new tools are like a fresh coat of paint on the same flawed infrastructure. I have a great deal of shader and technical art experience, source is hell to work with compared to any other engine. In the game art world, nobody makes portfolio work targeted to the source engine anymore unless it's specifically as a sell-able item for DOTA or TF2. The new tools are nice, but it still lacks things that are taken for granted, esp. in the art department. Mappers got a new hammer that really is very nice, not groundbreaking, but at least modern. Valve obviously doesn't target source (2) as a licensing engine, but it has evolved into that regardless, and really should be compared to at least its peers as an engine being introduced in 2014. Sometimes I feel like Epic has developed their whole UE4/UT community involvement strategy around 'what does valve do wrong.' [QUOTE=Zatar963;45747613]I don't know much about this, so I can't comment.[/QUOTE] This was a reference to greenlight. Need I say more? [QUOTE=Zatar963;45747613]Source? It's going slowly, but vaporware is a strong word.[/QUOTE] It is a bit strong, I'll admit, but it's kind of a dick move to all those OEMs that now have hardware they built and can't sell as intended. [QUOTE=Zatar963;45747613]Finally, the leak earlier this year proved they're working on a lot of stuff. HL3, L4D3, and a possible TF2 on Source 2. Not to mention the new IPs that have been floating around. The lack of communication is really frustrating, I agree. One of the main negative points with Valve. I think that with their structure though, things change and decisions are made so rapidly that announcing one thing and then releasing another would be worse. This doesn't really excuse their lack of really basic communication however, like "Yes, we're working on the next instalment in the Half-Life franchise."[/QUOTE] I think the fact that the only way we find out game development news from valve is via leaks is disheartening. If they didn't have the visionary foresight to turn a software updater and some digital hats into a moneypress, they'd be in a very different boat today. I think that without external pressure from shareholders or financial needs, combined with a lack of internal structure needed to fill that void, they've stopped really pushing to finish projects. It's no wonder why people want to work for them, it'd be like getting paid full time to make a mod - you get to just do what you want with who you want and there's no real penalty if you don't deliver. (that we know of) I hate that all I have is mostly opinions and speculation, but there's little for me to go off of beyond my own experience and what little we've been able to glimpse. EDIT: This really makes me sound like I hate valve and I don't, they're a solid company that is still head and shoulders over most other developers/publishers. It's just frustrating being a valve fan sometimes.

[QUOTE=Buck.;45746842]People would rather work for Valve than their own company. That says a lot.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't. The grass is always greener on the other side. There will always be companies or places that seem magical, until you decide to go there. I'm not saing Valve is a bad place to work, but without knowing the corporate culture at Valve, you can't really compare them fairly.

[QUOTE=Buck.;45746842]People would rather work for Valve than their own company. That says a lot.[/QUOTE] considering ubi, bioware and acti are up there, it's probably just people wanting to join so they can say they're part of the dev that made X game, and not because they actually put any effort looking into the pay, benefits, and quality of working at such places Valve is one of if not the biggest name in the industry, obviously glory hounds would flock to it

I remember reading of one of the big dev studios practically working their employees like slaves, 6/7 days a week with overtime expected and for low pay. I think it was Naughty Dog or Rockstar. I'd rather work in Valve's anarchy than a corporate mess where the developer has minimum control over the content they are allowed to create.

[QUOTE=Major_Vice;45749513]many many words[/QUOTE] Now that you've explained yourself further, I agree with most of what you said. I reacted the way I did because I initially thought you were one of those /v/-types that just shits on Valve at every given opportunity.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;45751125]I remember reading of one of the big dev studios practically working their employees like slaves, 6/7 days a week with overtime expected and for low pay. I think it was Naughty Dog or Rockstar. I'd rather work in Valve's anarchy than a corporate mess where the developer has minimum control over the content they are allowed to create.[/QUOTE] It isn't just game dev either lots of other development work seems to require people to work outside of their contracted 9-5 or whatever for no extra pay even on relatively low salaries. The shit some employers get away with is unbelievable and abhorrent.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;45751125]I remember reading of one of the big dev studios practically working their employees like slaves, 6/7 days a week with overtime expected and for low pay. I think it was Naughty Dog or Rockstar. I'd rather work in Valve's anarchy than a corporate mess where the developer has minimum control over the content they are allowed to create.[/QUOTE] It was probably the company behind LA Noire.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;45751125]I remember reading of one of the big dev studios practically working their employees like slaves, 6/7 days a week with overtime expected and for low pay. I think it was Naughty Dog or Rockstar. I'd rather work in Valve's anarchy than a corporate mess where the developer has minimum control over the content they are allowed to create.[/QUOTE] It was Team Bondi during the development of LA Noire. Their CEO was a complete lunatic which basically ran the company as a sweatshop, then ordering to delete parts of the project when he didn't feel it suited him. The story ended, as I recall, with the management of Rockstar forcing Team Bondi to release LA Noire in it's current iteration, after which they ordered it's disbanding.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45747473][url]http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Valve-Corporation-Salaries-E24849.htm[/url][/QUOTE] Considering that Seattle probably costs as much to live in / around as any other city I wouldn't call that "getting rich"

I went on a tour there in late may, and the office manager (guy who took us on the tour) had to straight reject a guy who flew out from California for a job interview. He must have fucked up though because the guys heading the interview didn't even want to finish it. On the other hand, they [I]do [/I]have ping pong tables.

What makes Double Fine so desirable of a place to work at? Outside of them and Valve (who are large anyways), none of the other companies are indie.

Valve has a lot of problems that they need to sort out, most importantly the number of people in their staff. 400 people (including public relation and executive people) to do *Steam development (in-home streaming, community features, the rumored media stuff) *Greenlight management *SteamOS development *SteamOS hardware development *Game development teams supporting released games (TF2/Dota2/CS:GO in addition to putting out the occasional bug fix for Half Life 2 and CSS) *Developer/publisher relations in order to keep everyone happy *Source 2 development *Unreleased game development (rumored L4D3 and HL3, maybe something else too) Seriously like what the fuck. They should have two or three times that number if they're going to tackle so many different projects.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;45751630]Considering that Seattle probably costs as much to live in / around as any other city I wouldn't call that "getting rich"[/QUOTE] seattle's pretty small for a city, and it's pretty cheap to live within commutable distance, if you work in downtown you could even live on the other side of the sound in Bremerton, or on vashon or Bainbridge islands and ferry to seattle daily there's 4 cities with a higher population than Seattle in CA alone, I was pretty surprised at this when I first realized it

[QUOTE=Korova;45751762]Valve has a lot of problems that they need to sort out, most importantly the number of people in their staff. 400 people (including public relation and executive people) to do *Steam development (in-home streaming, community features, the rumored media stuff) *Greenlight management *SteamOS development *SteamOS hardware development *Game development teams supporting released games (TF2/Dota2/CS:GO in addition to putting out the occasional bug fix for Half Life 2 and CSS) *Developer/publisher relations in order to keep everyone happy *Source 2 development *Unreleased game development (rumored L4D3 and HL3, maybe something else too) Seriously like what the fuck. They should have two or three times that number if they're going to tackle so many different projects.[/QUOTE] I do find it kind of weird that they have such a low number of people and yet work on quite a bit of things. Maybe that's why they are really slow.

[QUOTE=ironman17;45747153]Yeah, I was thinking it was strange that Valve would be at the top of a list of ideal development studios to work for, when they haven't really made much recently. Hell, were they even AT Gamescom this year or did they merely not announce anything there?[/QUOTE] Some were there, but only for two purposes: - A business-only booth for business discussion - Some CS:GO developers went along to make sure ESL One went smoothly and to make sure new features that were added for tournament players and commentators functioned properly

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;45751775]I do find it kind of weird that they have such a low number of people and yet work on quite a bit of things. Maybe that's why they are really slow.[/QUOTE] That does make a lick of sense, spread out too much and everything goes along rather slowly. Hopefully an influx of new devs suited to Valve's unique work environment will sort that out. Even raising their roster to 600 would probably help sort shit out.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45747284]Or you could just work on one project, shelf it next week and start another, then shelf that one the week after and so on. Ie fuck-all because nothing gets finished. Dismissing employees in that manner would break unfair dismissal laws, don't pull shit out of your ass.[/QUOTE] Washington is an At-will employment state, you can be terminated for just about any reason what so ever as long as it isn't discriminatory, without warning. Washington does have an implied contract exception, but the burden of proof falls upon the fired employee that there was an implied contract. Considering this is Valve, I'm sure there's written contracts for employment, which probably involves clauses like firing (with or without warning) for poor performance (especially after their peer reviews) or shit like that Sooooooooo yeah there's not really any unfair dismissal laws in Washington. If I owned a business and an employee was chewing their nails and it bothered me, for example, I could just up and tell him to get his shit and get out. I could tell him to get out for no reason. He could be the best employee on the face of the earth and I could tell him to fuck off and he wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

Well, I assume most people here haven't seen the inside of a company management. Seeing my father and my uncle, I totally agree why so many people would prefer to work in Valve rather in their own company. They are setting up a PYME here in Argentina and are quite close to finishing and polishing everything and just right now my uncle started having severe stress issues. It will be always more secure, you have your monthly paycheck, you don't have to worry about setting yourself aims or goals or carving a path looking to the future (cliched' as fuck but real nonetheless) and dealing with everyone below you (BOB instead of BYOB). But, as others said, Valve's working atmosphere might not be the best of all...it seems you have to be a pro and very assertive... 100k a month? ALMIGHTY LORD. If someone could work from home, just come to Argentina right now because you will be earning more than people who are actually owners of medium sized companies. You would be like in the ABC1....that's....100.000*12,75=1.275.000 monthly ARG pesos!!!

I just want a new valve game, it's been too long

[QUOTE=DemonElite;45752246]Washington is an At-will employment state, you can be terminated for just about any reason what so ever as long as it isn't discriminatory, without warning. Washington does have an implied contract exception, but the burden of proof falls upon the fired employee that there was an implied contract. Considering this is Valve, I'm sure there's written contracts for employment, which probably involves clauses like firing (with or without warning) for poor performance (especially after their peer reviews) or shit like that Sooooooooo yeah there's not really any unfair dismissal laws in Washington. If I owned a business and an employee was chewing their nails and it bothered me, for example, I could just up and tell him to get his shit and get out. I could tell him to get out for no reason. He could be the best employee on the face of the earth and I could tell him to fuck off and he wouldn't be able to do anything about it.[/QUOTE] what the hell that's terrible

Frankly I wouldn't work at valve. Had too many horrible experiences with them.

I always felt like Valve was the Pixar of the video game industry.

[QUOTE=Fort83;45756364]I'd rather work at 4A Games over Valve. Valve has a terrible work attitude of "do what you want". It's really no wonder everything they've released since HL2 has been shit.[/QUOTE] The "do what you want" attitude is precisely why people like Valve. Everyone wants to make their own game, and Valve let's you do precisely that while getting a paycheck. It's essentially a safer version of going independent, which is why it ranks higher than that.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;45758168]The "do what you want" attitude is precisely why people like Valve. Everyone wants to make their own game, and Valve let's you do precisely that while getting a paycheck. It's essentially a safer version of going independent, which is why it ranks higher than that.[/QUOTE] If you want to work at valve to make your own game then you're probably in for a rude awakening considering they have 6 game series and dota 2 is the only notable exception. When the orange box released valve was god tier but nowadays there are so many other people making seriously great games I just don't see the attractiveness of valve any more.

I'm honestly surprised EA isn't on that list; I've heard they're fantastic with their employees.

I actually think Valve would be kind of boring to work for. When was the last time they worked on a big blockbuster game? Memory recalls Half-Life 2 and Left 4 Dead. They always update DOTA, but that seems like all they do these days along with updating Steam or some VR. I'd only want to work for Valve if I was actively working on Half-Life 3.

I remember I applied to work at Valve when I was in high school just to see if they would even respond (I technically had the skills for the position posted). Needless to say, they declined.

I'd work for valve if I could. I don't have any real skills for game design, though; I guess I could be a writer, but that's not really what people tend to think of when they think of a developer. I think, even if it turned out that it didn't mesh well with you, you could just leave. You'd not lose anything from it, really.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;45758168]The "do what you want" attitude is precisely why people like Valve. Everyone wants to make their own game, and Valve let's you do precisely that while getting a paycheck. It's essentially a safer version of going independent, which is why it ranks higher than that.[/QUOTE] If that's what you want, you're looking for it in the wrong place. I'd say Double Fine has the closest thing to a "do what you want" policy.

My gripe with Valve right now is that the only thing they seem to be doing in the big picture is absorbing other smaller projects. Seriously the last original thing I can think of was L4D. Think about it; Counter Strike, DoD, Team Fortress, Portal, Dota, all of their big name games are things started as community projects or college demos that they picked up and admittidly made into better games but still it's all just sequels on existing ideas. I mean I love dota and CSGO, but honestly I don't think I'd work at Valve if I cared about making my own idea a working title. If I just wanted to generally work in videogames though? Yeah Valve is the best for that. [editline]21st August 2014[/editline] I highly doubt that if you work at Valve with the "do what you want" attitude with a whole new idea, that it will get any traction or support within the company. I feel like there's more of a chance for an official sequel to a mod absorbed by Valve like Zombie Master 2 or Pirates, Vikings, and Knights 3 has more of chance of being Valve's next new title than another Half Life.