Load of bollocks, world war.
All I have to worry about is the polish.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;44710127][img]http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bl9SkKhCYAABuEO.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Well, that's most territorial wars in a nutshell
Can't Obama send drones? He loves sending drones!
[QUOTE=Riller;44710643]Can't Obama send drones? He loves sending drones![/QUOTE]
You jest but that could work. Russia has played the obvious lie game from the start. Let's play too!
"You blew up my tanks with a drone!"
"Did you see a drone?"
"No, but a city block doesn't just magically disappear in a fireball"
"Must have been a gas main"
Why bother with good lies when shitty ones are just as effective! Thanks Putin!
[QUOTE=Riller;44710643]Can't Obama send drones? He loves sending drones![/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure they could shoot one down with relative ease.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44710347]Why should Americans risk their lives in a nation halfway around the world for no reason?[/QUOTE]
Because the US doesn't live in isolation from the rest of the world? US intervention could prevent this from ballooning into a much larger scale conflict. We know from history that sticking our thumb up our asses when a powerful country gets landgrabby isn't going to make them stop grabbing land if they can do so unopposed. It just doesn't match reality. It doesn't have to be the US, but let's face it; The United States has the most well equipped army in the world. They're the best suited for the task even if it's "not our problem". We're all people, regardless of our jersey. When someone gets out of line it's [B]everyone's[/B] responsibility to stand up for what's right.
To put it simply: Apathy is not a long-term solution. Especially in the increasingly interconnected world in which we live.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;44710169]How comes Russia seems to be bringing almost no tanks?[/QUOTE]
Most motor rifle brigades, even the recce brigades have tank battalions within their orbat.
[QUOTE=minilandstan;44710244]The good news is that Poland is still Poland.
The bad news is that this Ukraine is right next to Poland.[/QUOTE]
The Good news is Poland is in NATO
The bad news is Ukraine isn't.
Ukraine just needs to hire those mercenaries right?
[QUOTE=GunFox;44710888]You jest but that could work. Russia has played the obvious lie game from the start. Let's play too!
"You blew up my tanks with a drone!"
"Did you see a drone?"
"No, but a city block doesn't just magically disappear in a fireball"
"Must have been a gas main"
Why bother with good lies when shitty ones are just as effective! Thanks Putin![/QUOTE]
But it couldn't be a gas main because Russia shut off Ukraine's gas supply.
US World Police!
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;44711301]But it couldn't be a gas main because Russia shut off Ukraine's gas supply.[/QUOTE]
No they didn't
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;44711301]But it couldn't be a gas main because Russia shut off Ukraine's gas supply.[/QUOTE]
Swamp gas.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44711475]Swamp gas.[/QUOTE]swamp gas balloon-equipped self-defence forces
[QUOTE=laserguided;44710238]Not enough, Russia would take Eastern Ukraine in tops 3 to a week.[/QUOTE]
Eastern Ukraine probably, since there are a lot of seperatists.
But they have a good army capable of defending the country, it's pretty obvious they're not going to win a war against Russia but it will take a lot longer than 3 to a week.
[QUOTE=Ghost656;44711971]Eastern Ukraine probably, since there are a lot of seperatists.
But they have a good army capable of defending the country, it's pretty obvious they're not going to win a war against Russia but it will take a lot longer than 3 to a week.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention if Russia does kick it off, you can almost bet there will be other countries getting involved as well
[QUOTE=Reshy;44710914]Because the US doesn't live in isolation from the rest of the world? US intervention could prevent this from ballooning into a much larger scale conflict. We know from history that sticking our thumb up our asses when a powerful country gets landgrabby isn't going to make them stop grabbing land if they can do so unopposed. It just doesn't match reality. It doesn't have to be the US, but let's face it; The United States has the most well equipped army in the world. They're the best suited for the task even if it's "not our problem". We're all people, regardless of our jersey. When someone gets out of line it's [B]everyone's[/B] responsibility to stand up for what's right.
To put it simply: Apathy is not a long-term solution. Especially in the increasingly interconnected world in which we live.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't outright say that what America is doing is right, but there's plenty of reasons to curb Russia's enthusiasm.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;44710363]No reason? I can cite a few historical examples that would be good measure, including the annexation of the Rhineland as well as the example of napoleon. Both conflicts could have been avoided if the united states showed initiative, but the reasoning here would be a few large treaties as well as helping a potential ally and future buyer of american goods stop an encroachment of a much larger (A lot larger) enemy of theirs.
I didn't know we still had a whig party against war, when war is just.
The reasoning i use is if people were to have fought those whom tried to violate other nations sovereignty, the world could have become a very different place. When you take up a period of isolation in times of crisis, all that ends of happening is america as a whole gets drawn back in. Look at the Napoleonic wars, as well as both world wars.[/QUOTE]
You know nothing of of American history if you think the US could have done anything to France while Napoleon was emperor. (Not to mention, if anything, he would have been our ally against England)
Also, we participated in World War I, I don't know where you're getting this isolationist crap from. The other irony of mentioning WWI in taking action against those who violate sovereignty is what the Entente did to the Central Powers after the war in the various treaties.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44712540]You know nothing of of American history if you think the US could have done anything to France while Napoleon was emperor. (Not to mention, if anything, he would have been our ally against England)
Also, we participated in World War I, I don't know where you're getting this isolationist crap from. The other irony of mentioning WWI in taking action against those who violate sovereignty is what the Entente did to the Central Powers after the war in the various treaties.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's quite ridiculous, since the U.S. was one of Napoleon's only allies during that period.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44712540]You know nothing of of American history if you think the US could have done anything to France while Napoleon was emperor. (Not to mention, if anything, he would have been our ally against England)
Also, we participated in World War I, I don't know where you're getting this isolationist crap from. The other irony of mentioning WWI in taking action against those who violate sovereignty is what the Entente did to the Central Powers after the war in the various treaties.[/QUOTE]
For one we could have stopped sending them supplies. Three French revolution up until the executions began had support from the Americans. We were trying to remain neutral until the war hounds started calling for war. After Napoleon's defeat we were all alone fighting the British, and all in all we were more neutral to Napoleon than anything else. All in all im not sure why I brought this up last night, I must have been really tired. There's nothing really to say about it . Preventing the Napoleonic war unless we were to cut aid to Napoleon, but that was beneficial to us in economic terms. Not only that, we felt significant ties of kinship after the revolution we had. The French took it to a new level and caused us to back away until Napoleon came into power, then we began selling goods to them.
We didn't participate in world war one until the later part of the war with Britain and France asking for help because the Russians pulled out. Even then we didn't want to join it because of the sheer amount of losses incurred on both sides. We hesitantly joined after German Uboats started hitting our shipping industry. You really can't compare the Treaty of Versailles to what's happening here. A concession of war can't be compared to violating standing treaties or even the Non declaration of war while violating of land area are a largely different thing
[editline]3rd May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Explosions;44712657]Yeah that's quite ridiculous, since the U.S. was one of Napoleon's only allies during that period.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to disagree. There were no declarations of the untied States being allies to France during that time. We took a more neutral side, seeking to sell to both England and France. Honestly I believe you're trying to play off of Scorpius's post about Napoleon, because there was actually a quasi war between us and France, but also the fact there isn't any evidence to support your claim
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;44711301]But it couldn't be a gas main because Russia shut off Ukraine's gas supply.[/QUOTE]
Must be all the "propaganda" the rebels are blowing up their ass, which suddenly ignited.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;44711375]US World Police![/QUOTE]
This is almost too true to be a joke.
The whole situation really makes you wonder what will happen after Putin. Russia always falls behind a strong singular leader and the responses and opinions of each are usually very different.
Unfortunately, I feel like everybody is looking at this conflict through "ideological" glasses. We as a planet are not nearly advanced enough to ignore actual geopolitics, and the fact is that nations will act in their own best interests, instead of what is "right". So of course the US will not let Russia conquer half of Europe, as that would be strategically unfavorable. But we actually don't have any vested interest in Ukraine as of now, and putting troops on the ground would not be our best option.
If anything, European nations should be helping out instead.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;44714391]Unfortunately, I feel like everybody is looking at this conflict through "ideological" glasses. We as a planet are not nearly advanced enough to ignore actual geopolitics, and the fact is that nations will act in their own best interests, instead of what is "right". So of course the US will not let Russia conquer half of Europe, as that would be strategically unfavorable. But we actually don't have any vested interest in Ukraine as of now, and putting troops on the ground would not be our best option.
If anything, European nations should be helping out instead.[/QUOTE]
This is why I'm always confused as to why America is brought up, the EU is more than capable of helping, and should probably be the first go-to point since they're [I]literally next to the fucking Ukraine[/I] so why does everyone go straight across the Atlantic to a country that would have to fly its army over there.
[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;44714451]This is why I'm always confused as to why America is brought up, the EU is more than capable of helping, and should probably be the first go-to point since they're [I]literally next to the fucking Ukraine[/I] so why does everyone go straight across the Atlantic to a country that would have to fly its army over there.[/QUOTE]
Right, but the EU isn't a country, atleast not yet.
[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;44714451]This is why I'm always confused as to why America is brought up, the EU is more than capable of helping, and should probably be the first go-to point since they're [I]literally next to the fucking Ukraine[/I] so why does everyone go straight across the Atlantic to a country that would have to fly its army over there.[/QUOTE]
EU doesn't have a unified army. EUFOR is too small to count in this situation.
Eerily like the prelude to WW2
When America does it, its because they're getting the people reponsible for 9/11. I mean looking for WMD's. I mean getting Hadam. I mean imancipating a surpressed people. I mean to get the oil.
But when Russia does it. Its evil and Russia should pay dearly.
The Bush Admin. set a precedent that Putin merely adopted. However depending upon which end of the propoganda youre receivong depends upon how wrong or right your actions are seen.
[editline]4th May 2014[/editline]
Eerily like the prelude to WW2
When America does it, its because they're getting the people reponsible for 9/11. I mean looking for WMD's. I mean getting Hadam. I mean imancipating a surpressed people. I mean to get the oil.
But when Russia does it. Its evil and Russia should pay dearly.
The Bush Admin. set a precedent that Putin merely adopted. However depending upon which end of the propoganda youre receivong depends upon how wrong or right your actions are seen.
[QUOTE=MoofinztheRed;44716225]Eerily like the prelude to WW2
When America does it, its because they're getting the people reponsible for 9/11. I mean looking for WMD's. I mean getting Hadam. I mean imancipating a surpressed people. I mean to get the oil.[/QUOTE]
Oh shut up with this crap. America didn't invade Iraq for oil.
[QUOTE=MoofinztheRed;44716225]Eerily like the prelude to WW2
When America does it, its because they're getting the people reponsible for 9/11. I mean looking for WMD's. I mean getting Hadam. I mean imancipating a surpressed people. I mean to get the oil.
But when Russia does it. Its evil and Russia should pay dearly.
The Bush Admin. set a precedent that Putin merely adopted. However depending upon which end of the propoganda youre receivong depends upon how wrong or right your actions are seen.
[editline]4th May 2014[/editline]
Eerily like the prelude to WW2
When America does it, its because they're getting the people reponsible for 9/11. I mean looking for WMD's. I mean getting Hadam. I mean imancipating a surpressed people. I mean to get the oil.
But when Russia does it. Its evil and Russia should pay dearly.
The Bush Admin. set a precedent that Putin merely adopted. However depending upon which end of the propoganda youre receivong depends upon how wrong or right your actions are seen.[/QUOTE]
I was wondering when stroma would show up again
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