Unbelievable: US calls Israel to investigate into its own crime (Flotilla) - Polidicks

snipe.

[QUOTE=CriticalThought;22362577][QUOTE=Lambeth;22362570]More to it than that[/QUOTE] There definitely is, but I would consider that a major factor, I would say that discounting it would be disingenuous.[/QUOTE] Perhaps. Turkey and Israel have been probably been each others strongest ally since Israel's creation. The Gaza War is where I would point the most blame for ruining the relationship.

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22362615]Uh, no. They were en route to starving people with food and supplies until they were boarded and captured. Given that they had no intentions regarding Israel whatsoever, the analogy doesn't work. The only country who seems to even acknowledge the blockade as legitimate is the United States. (Which is understandable... we have invested a lot of money in your country, so it'd be silly to give you billions of dollars one minute and disagree with you the other.)[/QUOTE] Ok, a bus full of orphans if you will. They get pulled over and the driver gets into a fight with the cop. Who cares what they were doing, they still have to respect the local authority. Most countries acknowledge the blockade, they don't agree with it but they aren't going to disregard it because they don't like it. No-one in their right mind thinks that because we don't recognise the blockade as legal, it's perfectly ok to break through it.

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[QUOTE=Devodiere;22362602]Well metal bars are certainly normal with building supplies and slingshots aren't really that big of weapon, more of a kids toy. Turkey is pretty secular compared to other Muslim countries. They were actually in better relations with Israel than most of the Muslim world so it's not like they are fanatics. Putting your life in danger doesn't mean you want to die. Some of them did think being a martyr would be good but I don't think everyone who died thought that. Hamas said that it was a win-win situation but very few actually onboard would have agreed.[/QUOTE] No, the slingshots that you are familiar with living in peaceful white suburbia are kid's toys. Did you know that the IRA used slingshots against the British? How it getting hit with a hard round stone at high speed not dangerous? Also Turkey was pretty secular, but is becoming more radicalized. The majority of the population are less fanatical than say Saudi Arabia, but that doesn't mean they aren't Muslim. I could get into a debate with you about Muslims but I've been over that too many times, and no matter how much schooling and Islamic text and scholars are cited, fools on this forum would rather believe the narrative than the facts. Also I think you need to do a little more research into what the people on board think. I sure don't know what everyone of them think, but I have seen video of at least two of them saying they want to become martyrs, I've seen video of many of them chanting death to Israel, I've seen video of many of them attacking the IDF.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22362679]Ok, a bus full of orphans if you will. They get pulled over and the driver gets into a fight with the cop. Who cares what they were doing, they still have to respect the local authority. Most countries acknowledge the blockade, they don't agree with it but they aren't going to disregard it because they don't like it. No-one in their right mind thinks that because we don't recognise the blockade as legal, it's perfectly ok to break through it.[/QUOTE] they were attacked in international waters btw

Analogies are supposed to make the situation easier to understand. Yours isn't doing that.

[QUOTE=Chippay;22362693]cool analogy, but you forgot about the part where the cop is shooting before the van is dong anything wrong also, you forgot the part where you clarify that you're a complete retard who thinks a situation where people have been killed is 'blown out of proportion'[/QUOTE] Is that how it went down now...

yes.

The whole point is that they aren't the local authority. It was in international water, the flotilla might as well have been off the coast of San Francisco.

[QUOTE=Chippay;22362742]yes.[/QUOTE] Cool, source?

[QUOTE=Chippay;22362693]cool analogy, but you forgot about the part where the cop is shooting before the van is dong anything wrong also, you forgot the part where you clarify that you're a complete retard who thinks a situation where people have been killed is 'blown out of proportion'[/QUOTE] Ok, the cop is shooting at the van. The appropriate move is to get into a fistfight with them, right? It has been blown out of proportion, it is being treated as an act of war and a massacre for some people. There are factors in it other than someone died; provocation, the number of deaths, military involvement, intent of both parties, it was a fucked up thing but it wasn't as big as it's being made out to be.

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[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22362745]The whole point is that they aren't the local authority. It was in international water, the flotilla might as well have been off the coast of San Francisco.[/QUOTE] Well according to international law they did have the right to board them, unless you recognize the blockade as illegal. If they have boarded and slaughtered every passenger in it's own waters would you still care? [editline]01:51AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Chippay;22362763]are you seriously asking for a source on me clarifying an analogy? are you retarded? [url]www.goatse.fr[/url][/QUOTE] Source on IDF shooting first, or is it you who is retarded for responding yes and not knowing what you're responding to?

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[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22362745]The whole point is that they aren't the local authority. It was in international water, the flotilla might as well have been off the coast of San Francisco.[/QUOTE] It was too far away from their land, big deal. Boarding a ship prematurely is up there with speeding in the global scale. They shouldn't have done it, but it's not a serious crime.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22362679]Ok, a bus full of orphans if you will. They get pulled over and the driver gets into a fight with the cop. Who cares what they were doing, they still have to respect the local authority. Most countries acknowledge the blockade, they don't agree with it but they aren't going to disregard it because they don't like it. No-one in their right mind thinks that because we don't recognise the blockade as legal, it's perfectly ok to break through it.[/QUOTE] I'll fix this for you: A bus full of orphans, who are also starving and have severe medical issues. They get pulled over on the way to the hospital, and the cop tries to force his way into the bus, despite the passengers posing no threat, to remove all of the orphan's supplies that they need in order to not die. Who cares what they were doing, they still have to respect over-zealous military officials and play the dirty politics game instead of saving the orphans' lives.

[QUOTE=CriticalThought;22362768]Well according to international law they did have the right to board them, unless you recognize the blockade as illegal. If they have boarded and slaughtered every passenger in it's own waters would you still care? [editline]01:51AM[/editline] Source on IDF shooting first, or is it you who is retarded for responding yes and not knowing what you're responding to?[/QUOTE] I would care even more, if they're going to kill every passenger, what kind of question is that? And one of the people who claimed that the IDF shot first is an Israeli parliament member. I'm not following this quite as closely as others, and don't have a link stored. I'm sure you could find plenty of evidence supporting the other side of the story if you actually looked for it.

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[QUOTE=Chippay;22362788]i suppose they should line up and be shot then. after all, they were only in international waters and not doing anything wrong. and yes, when people who are barely armed with knives are gunned down by commandos it is a massacre. this is a definition. any situation where people are murdered for desiring to bring aid to an oppressed people cannot be blown out of proportion.[/QUOTE] [I] :kill a large number of people indiscriminately; "The Hutus massacred the Tutsis in Rwanda" [/I] Hardly describe as defending oneself against a murderous mob as a massacre. And don't try to argue the mob wasn't murderous. When you stab someone in the chest, you are murderous, when you throw someone over a high ledge onto their head, you are murderous, and you surround a fallen person and mercilessly beat down on them, you are murderous.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22362800]It was too far away from their land, big deal. Boarding a ship prematurely is up there with speeding in the global scale. They shouldn't have done it, but it's not a serious crime.[/QUOTE] Yes it is! It's always been a serious crime! It's caused wars countless times in history!

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[QUOTE=Chippay;22362788]i suppose they should line up and be shot then. after all, they were only in international waters and not doing anything wrong. and yes, when people who are barely armed with knives are gunned down by commandos it is a massacre. this is a definition. any situation where people are murdered for desiring to bring aid to an oppressed people cannot be blown out of proportion.[/QUOTE] What makes you think they would be shot? They might be firing at you but fighting back is really going to help your situation. If someone is shot without provocations, that's bad. If they are threatening their aggresor with a knife beforehand, that's a little less bad. If they were actually attacking them and got shot, that's not so bad. They weren't shot for bringing aid, they were shot because they attacked soldiers.

[QUOTE=CriticalThought;22362827] [I]:kill a large number of people indiscriminately; "The Hutus massacred the Tutsis in Rwanda" [/I][/QUOTE] Completely different situation.

[QUOTE=Chippay;22362826]nah, you're the one who is retarded. here's some links you'll decry as biased and then go on believing israeli propaganda [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/gaza-flotilla-eyewitness-accounts-gunfire[/url] [url]http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hEjGRnfahvfy7XgHdGIWuNOgrmoQ[/url] and here's a special one for the guy who has the fucking nerve to say this is 'blown out of proportion' [url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/the-ship-turned-into-a-lake-of-blood-says-activist-on-gaza-flotilla-1.293339[/url] [B]'The ship turned into a lake of blood,' says activist on Gaza flotilla[/B][/QUOTE] Here's a headline: Israelis opened fire before boarding Gaza flotilla,[B] say released activists[/B] I guess when Israel says something it's a lie but when the anti-Israel activists say something it's taken at face value. Oh look at these Germans, Germans aren't Palestinian so I guess they could be telling the truth? "The Israeli government justifies the raid because they were attacked. This is absolutely not the case" [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Xi-zphMEU&feature=related[/media] Guess not. See, when you come down to it, your evidence is: Some guy said something that supports his cause, and my evidence is irrefutable video. Hey Chippays... [img]http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6484/308601126l1sikx8.jpg[/img]

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[QUOTE=Devodiere;22362856]What makes you think they would be shot? They might be firing at you but fighting back is really going to help your situation. If someone is shot without provocations, that's bad. If they are threatening their aggresor with a knife beforehand, that's a little less bad. If they were actually attacking them and got shot, that's not so bad. They weren't shot for bringing aid, they were shot because they attacked soldiers.[/QUOTE] What, you're supposed to go say hello and find out if the guy shooting at you intends to actually hit you with those bullets? Anyway, I'm more inclined to believe the people on board than the commandos who destroyed all of their video evidence besides a five minute clip.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;22362874]Completely different situation.[/QUOTE] I'm not relating it, it was part of the definition, fuck I was arguing about [B]indiscriminately[/B]. [editline]02:01AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Chippay;22362884]what makes me think they would be shot? because they were, silly! [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/gaza-flotilla-eyewitness-accounts-gunfire[/url] i'll save myself the trouble of posting additional links, since the batch i posted less than 10 posts above you went unread by you[/QUOTE] So what makes you think they would be shot if they DIDN'T attack the IDF. Other five boats DIDN'T attack the IDF and they WERE NOT shot.

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[QUOTE=CriticalThought;22362898][QUOTE=Lambeth;22362874]Completely different situation.[/QUOTE] I'm not relating it, it was part of the definition, fuck I was arguing about [B]indiscriminately[/B]. [/QUOTE] ah shit, I posted without thinking, sorry