Unbelievable: US calls Israel to investigate into its own crime (Flotilla)
625 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ThePuska;22323162]Comparing something to Hitler and the Holocaust generally does mean killing jews[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. When the comparison involves Israel, it's supposed to have special meaning. Sure, they're not committing genocide. Yet. But they're still doing to the Palestinians almost exactly what the Nazis did to them before the jews were carted to death camps.
[QUOTE=archangel125;22323133]I don't blindly follow or trust anyone with a suit and a title. Especially since I'm convinced they don't ever tell the public the whole story. However, in this and other cases, Israel's actions speak for themselves, the words of political leaders only add unnecessary commentary. As for military figures, are you actually saying it was a GOOD call to fire on and then board a flagged turkish aid vessel in non-territorial waters? It doesn't take someone with a star on their lapel or a degree in political science to figure out that was a very bad move.[/QUOTE]
You're more than welcome to be skeptical, but you talk as if I'm not convinced that what happened is a bad thing. You don't need to convince me, I am convinced. But I do believe that Israel needs to carry out their investigation first before other nations get input into the actions of the IDF.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22323219]You're more than welcome to be skeptical, but you talk as if I'm not convinced that what happened is a bad thing. You don't need to convince me, I am convinced. But I do believe that Israel needs to carry out their investigation first before other nations get input into the actions of the IDF.[/QUOTE]
Allowing Israel to investigate first will simply enable them to find and destroy or alter all relevant evidence. Especially anything linking the decision to the higher levels of government.
[QUOTE=archangel125;22323207]Not necessarily. When the comparison involves Israel, it's supposed to have special meaning. Sure, they're not committing genocide.[/QUOTE]
Yet the OP's meaning, which I was referring to, was comparing genocides - did you not notice the other leaders imfamous for their respective genocides?
[QUOTE=archangel125;22323207]Yet.[/quote]
I don't think this deserves a response.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22322003]
To allow Israel to investigate itself is the equivalent of allowing Hitler to investigate the Holocaust, Pol Pot the genocide in Cambodia, or Saddam Hussein to conduct his own trial and that of his henchmen.
[/QUOTE]
:eng101:
Hyperbole!
But yeah this is really stupid.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22323263]
I don't think this deserves a response.[/QUOTE]
There is no way you'd be so defensive of Israel if you didn't have anything at all to do with the country. While some of their actions as a nation may be justified, the vast majority where the Palestinians are concerned are not.
What I just implied was that, since Israel IS oppressing the Palestinians, as Hitler did the jews, there's no telling whether they'll take the same next steps he did one day.
[QUOTE=archangel125;22323334]There is no way you'd be so defensive of Israel if you didn't have anything at all to do with the country. While some of their actions as a nation may be justified, the vast majority where the Palestinians are concerned are not.
What I just implied was that, since Israel IS oppressing the Palestinians, as Hitler did the jews, there's no telling whether they'll take the same next steps he did one day.[/QUOTE]
he's the princess of Israel it's obvious now
[QUOTE=archangel125;22323334]There is no way you'd be so defensive of Israel if you didn't have anything at all to do with the country. While some of their actions as a nation may be justified, the vast majority where the Palestinians are concerned are not.[/QUOTE]
I've been there, and I hated it. I never want to go there again - but I accept their right to exist, and their right to defend themselves.
[QUOTE=archangel125;22323334]What I just implied was that, since Israel IS oppressing the Palestinians, as Hitler did the jews, there's no telling whether they'll take the same next steps he did one day.[/QUOTE]
The world is not the same as it was in the 1930s, 1940s... no one would let a Westernised country such as Israel get away with genocide.
[QUOTE=archangel125;22323334]There is no way you'd be so defensive of Israel if you didn't have anything at all to do with the country. While some of their actions as a nation may be justified, the vast majority where the Palestinians are concerned are not.
What I just implied was that, since Israel IS oppressing the Palestinians, as Hitler did the jews, there's no telling whether they'll take the same next steps he did one day.[/QUOTE]
if it goes that far Israel will lose all credibility ever.
More than they already have anyway.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22323067]So you believe that Israel should not be given a fair chance to investigate what happened, which other nations would expect?
All the evidence is available freely on the internet thanks to technology that was not around during the Vietnam war, so an impartial investigation could take place after Israel has commissioned theirs.[/QUOTE]
Which is to be hoped for. You're right, Israel deserves to run its own investigation, and I don't even doubt they already are even. But to even consider for a moment that it would be impartial, unbiased, and well-established is dumb. There's only two sides in Israel, and it's people who support Palestine and hate Israel, or vice-versa. There is very little hope for an investigation to come out of their country to be any kind of trust worthy. No more than you could throw it, anyway.
Turkey will have its own biased investigation. The U.S. can't be trusted now, although I had hoped they would take initiative and run their own investigation. At this point it would really need to be a U.N.-led investigation with people from several countries involved.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22323263]Yet the OP's meaning, which I was referring to, was comparing genocides - did you not notice the other leaders imfamous for their respective genocides?[/QUOTE]
Uhh? No. Are you an idiot? I wasn't comparing Hitlers atrocities to the ship event.
If you had the slightest reading comprehension, you'd know I mean the investigations.
[QUOTE=ThePuska;22323137]Why are you calling him princess
If he's your princess, you should respect him or he'll have your head
Not to mention that as a princess he has more experience about politics than you
Princesses are also pretty[/QUOTE]
Yes, but I'm the queen so...
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Has there been any words from UN about this?
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22323372]I've been there, and I hated it. I never want to go there again - but I accept their right to exist, and their right to defend themselves.[/QUOTE]
Their actions as of late don't seem particularly defensive.
[editline]08:16AM[/editline]
I mean turkey is their ally, fer fucks sake.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22322547]
Comparing the deaths of 9-16 people (who died under the Turkish flag - I don't even know anymore due to conflicting reports) to the Holocaust, where people were targeted because of their religion?[/QUOTE]
You apparently can't comprehend at all, can you?
[QUOTE=starpluck;22323402]Uhh? No. Are you an idiot? I wasn't comparing Hitlers atrocities to the ship event.
If you had the slightest reading comprehension, you'd know I meanthe investigations.[/QUOTE]
Ahh, so what would Hitler and Saddam be investigating? Their own "ship events"?
As it stands personally, what I know is that Israel illegally boarded a Turkish ship in International Waters, and in defending themselves from civil unrest during these acts, killed ten people. The fault from this information is clear. Unless I suddenly discover that the Aids were firing on the Israeli Defence Force with howitzers from on their boats, I don't think my opinion will be changing much.
This subject is causing so much flaming, I think I'll just sit this one out.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22323438]You apparently can't comprehend at all, can you?[/QUOTE]
Or maybe you failed to get your point across since others conceded they thought along the same lines as me...
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=534nme0kjUk[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtYnZBKSFgM[/media]
The violence seems semi legit. They ignored the warning.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22323466]Or maybe you failed to get your point across since others conceded they thought along the same lines as me...[/QUOTE]
No.
You thought I was comparing Saddam's events, the Cambodia massacre and the Nazis to that ship raid.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22323466]Or maybe you failed to get your point across since others conceded they thought along the same lines as me...[/QUOTE]
As I read it, he's just saying that these people undoubtedly have reasons for what they did, but it doesn't make it right. Letting them run their own inquiry into these things would just reveal all these ignorant, racist, biased, etc. reasons into paper and somehow put them forth as totally legit. Hitler did wrong, but he believes he was doing right. Same with Israel right now.
lol
[QUOTE=Exploits;22323530]As I read it, he's just saying that these people undoubtedly have reasons for what they did, but it doesn't make it right. Letting them run their own inquiry into these things would just reveal all these ignorant, racist, biased, etc. reasons into paper and somehow put them forth as totally legit. Hitler did wrong, but he believes he was doing right. Same with Israel right now.[/QUOTE]
Thank you.
I now understand what you're trying to convey - and with that, I sleep.
Wonder what Israel offered in return. I doubt we would block the movement without something of considerable interest to the USA. Not that we will ever know. Still curious.
[editline]11:45AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=sami-pso;22323519][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=534nme0kjUk[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtYnZBKSFgM[/media]
The violence seems semi legit. They ignored the warning.[/QUOTE]
Huh, that is actually a remarkably reasonable offer.
While in the gym changing room the other day, two old lads watching the sky news report on Isreal storming the aid ships -
Old Guy 1 : "Ah jesus would ya look at that Tony, those feckin jews are at it again, someone should really teach them a lesson"
Old Guy 2 : "I dont know about that Micheal, last time the Germans tried that it got a bit out of hand"
I couldn't help but laugh..
[quote=crazysack;22323991]while in the gym changing room the other day, two old lads watching the sky news report on isreal storming the aid ships -
old guy 1 : "ah jesus would ya look at that tony, those feckin jews are at it again, someone should really teach them a lesson"
old guy 2 : "i dont know about that micheal, last time the germans tried that it got a bit out of hand"
i couldn't help but laugh..[/quote]
Even though it was antisemitic, I still lol'd my ass.
[editline]04:55PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22322745][highlight]Yeah mate - Israel has setup gas chambers and is mass-murdering them, one by one.[/highlight]
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[IMG]http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/israel_collective_punishment_by_latuff2.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=archangel125;22322310]The best part is that they say an investigation conducted by Israel would be "Impartial". Since when does the US have the final say in UN decisions, anyway?[/QUOTE]
Don't certain countries, Canada included, have final veto ability there?
