Unbelievable: US calls Israel to investigate into its own crime (Flotilla) - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22325941]Besides, saying that "They got what they wanted" is not a way to justify what has happened.[/QUOTE] I am not at all attempting to justify what happened.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22325922]Part of the blockade is justified. I also don't understand why won't Israel let more food and supplies in, but I can fully understand what they want to search everything for weapons.[/QUOTE] An Israeli official actually said that they wanted the Gazan population to "go on a diet" to justify it. Take that however you want. It's pretty much collective punishment of the people of Gaza, and I see absolutely no justification in disallowing humanitarian aid.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22325941]No, I have a hard time imagining if the humanitarian activists wanted this. They wanted a confrontation to set lights on the blockade, sure, but no, I don't think any of them wanted people to be killed. If they weren't stopped, they would be able to deliver much needed aid to the Gazan population, so it was kind of a Win-Win-scenario. Besides, saying that "They got what they wanted" is not a way to justify what has happened.[/QUOTE] The ship was sent to provoke Israel, giving Israel a bad name, giving them also a reason to open a war or w/e.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22324479]Discussing if the violence seems "legit" is a completely idiotic notion and serves only to try and get away from the real issue, namely that the IDF had absolutely [b]No fucking right[/b] to board the ships in the first place, and all casualties following thereof is completely the IDFs responsibility. As it has been said before, they boarded the ships in international waters, and depending on how you see it, this is either a case of State sanctioned piracy, or a war crime against Turkey. Also, some of you should probably listen to what some of the people who actually was on the flotilla and has now been released has to say, there's a few of them on Al Jazeera, and others all over the media in Europe. Oh, and don't try and wave their opinions away as "Pro-Hamas activists" or "Hippies". There were important political figures on those ships, including a former politician from the US and a holocaust survivor. There were also a lot of journalists, and honestly at this point I'd take their word over what Israel says after what they've been trying to put out over the last couple of days.[/QUOTE] Semi legit. I know what they did. They should've waited till they crossed the imaginary border. And they should've waited before entering the vessel. But still, when your first crew member gets stabbed and later find out people are shooting what the fuck do you do? An aid vessel shouldn't be armed to the teeth like that. Imo both sides were wrong. They both needed to chill the fuck out. Israelian troops should've waited and the aid vessel should have either complied or gone back to where it came from.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22325963]An Israeli official actually said that they wanted the Gazan population to "go on a diet" to justify it. Take that however you want. It's pretty much collective punishment of the people of Gaza, and I see absolutely no justification in disallowing humanitarian aid.[/QUOTE] Me too, but I do see justification in removing the Hamas' access to rockets and weapons. [editline]08:38PM[/editline] [QUOTE=sami-pso;22325978] Imo both sides were wrong. They both needed to chill the fuck out. Israelian troops should've waited and the aid vessel should have either complied or gone back to where it came from.[/QUOTE] Definitely agree with this paragraph. I have said right from the start that both sides did wrong things and none are clear of all charges. Tough the term is Israelis.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22325922]Part of the blockade is justified. I also don't understand why won't Israel let more food and supplies in, but I can fully understand what they want to search everything for weapons.[/QUOTE] Every country searches shit for illegal items like weapons and drugs. But Israel is ridiculous they say they don't allow in luxuries and shit, but they let face masks and some cosmetics through, and consistently provide only a quarter of the UN recommended aid through, something like 15,000 tons of recommended 60,000. [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7545636.stm[/url]

[QUOTE=sami-pso;22325978]Semi legit. I know what they did. They should've waited till they crossed the imaginary border. And they should've waited before entering the vessel. But still, when your first crew member gets stabbed and later find out people are shooting what the fuck do you do? An aid vessel shouldn't be armed to the teeth like that. Imo both sides were wrong. They both needed to chill the fuck out. Israelian troops should've waited and the aid vessel should have either complied or gone back to where it came from.[/QUOTE] And MLK and Gandhi should have stfu and gone back to being opressed. Have you actually SEEN any pictures the IDF has published of the so called "weapons"? Kitchen knifes, a matching set even, wrenches and chains, ON A FUCKING BOAT! This wasn't planned, this was scared civilians grabbing whatever lay closest and defend themselves against a pirating force. The IDF even went as far as to publish a picture of a slingshot and say that this was a weapon they were attacked with. Hell, even in the IDF's video you don't see anyone being attacked with knives, we only have the IDF's word to go on that, and after what they've been saying I don't trust them a millimetre. There's only two ways the Israeli military can come looking out of this, either they are lying through their noses to try and put some of the blame on the activists, or their commandos are hilariously and incredibly incompetent. Pick your choice. PS: The "Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle" stance is cowardly and bullshit.

Well then fuck both sides as long as Israel dies in the process.

[QUOTE=Sickle;22326154]Well then fuck both sides as long as Israel dies in the process.[/QUOTE] Go away...

[QUOTE=DogGunn;22326168]Go away...[/QUOTE] No, go back to Israel.

[QUOTE=bravehat;22326140]Every country searches shit for illegal items like weapons and drugs. But Israel is ridiculous they say they don't allow in luxuries and shit, but they let face masks and some cosmetics through, and consistently provide only a quarter of the UN recommended aid through, something like 15,000 tons of recommended 60,000. [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7545636.stm[/url][/QUOTE] That is what I meant by " also don't understand why won't Israel let more food and supplies in".

[QUOTE=Sickle;22326181]No, go back to Israel.[/QUOTE] Fuck no, I hate it there - I'll stay in Australia thanks.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;22326219]Fuck no, I hate it there - I'll stay in Australia thanks.[/QUOTE] What's so bad over here? :(.

The Government. The flat out racism. The IDF. The everything. When I was there, I hated it.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22326224]What's so bad over here? :(.[/QUOTE] Probably Israel.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;22322547] Comparing the deaths of 9-16 people (who died under the Turkish flag - I don't even know anymore due to conflicting reports) to the Holocaust, where people were targeted because of their religion?[/QUOTE] There were total of 60 million victims in world war 2. Around 6 million Jews died. What grinds my gears is that it looks like everyone forgot about other 54 million people that died. Around 15 million people from Soviet Union died.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;22326246]The Government. The flat out racism. The IDF. The everything. When I was there, I hated it.[/QUOTE] Details? Agree on the current government though.

For some clarification, I do not wish "Death upon Israel", I merely want people to see the injustice that the Israeli Government is imposing on the Palestinian population. As far as I know, the current government there is made up of the most right-extremist and the most zionist members of the political spectrum, because that would be the only way they could get the majority. This means that there probably is a lot of people who disagree with the current political direction down there, and judging them all for this is a bit harsh.

[QUOTE=Thundermanz;22326259]There were total of 60 million victims in world war 2. Around 6 million Jews died. What grinds my gears is that it looks like everyone forgot about other 54 million people that died. Around 15 million people from Soviet Union died.[/QUOTE] Well he was talking specifically about the holocaust. In the holocaust not only 6 million Jews died though, about an extra million homosexuals, mentally handicapped, and people who opposed the government have also died. [editline]08:50PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Jugulum;22326283]For some clarification, I do not wish "Death upon Israel", I merely want people to see the injustice that the Israeli Government is imposing on the Palestinian population. As far as I know, the current government there is made up of the most right-extremist and the most zionist members of the political spectrum, because that would be the only way they could get the majority. This means that there probably is a lot of people who disagree with the current political direction down there, and judging them all for this is a bit harsh.[/QUOTE] You are correct sir, though not all of them are right-wingers or extremists.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;22325784]I value life too - which is why I think it's dire to make sure Israel do not over exaggerate the response needed to something like this - but why did they not deliver the aid through other methods? Why did they need to push through the blockade?[/QUOTE] Because Israel has a ridiculous list of what is and what isn't allowed as aid into Gaza, such as building materials like cement and "luxuries" such as instant coffee.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22326224]What's so bad over here? :(.[/QUOTE] lol, what's so bad over there? are you blind or something. no one likes the Israeli regime except nationalists/zionists/xenophobics

[QUOTE=Sickle;22326250]Probably Israel.[/QUOTE] I just do not like it there. You walk around and people are racist... to everyone. I just don't want anything to do with it. But Israel has a right to exist and a right to defend itself.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22326284]Well he was talking specifically about the holocaust. In the holocaust not only 6 million Jews died though, about an extra million homosexuals, mentally handicapped, and people who opposed the government have also died. [editline]08:50PM[/editline] You are correct sir, though not all of them are right-wingers or extremists.[/QUOTE] Yes, what I meant is that Netanyahu's party had to ally up with the nationalists and zionists in order to get a majority. At least that is the situation as far as I am aware.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;22326326]I just do not like it there. You walk around and people are racist... to everyone. I just don't want anything to do with it. But Israel has a right to exist and a right to defend itself.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't it's all fucking stolen land.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;22326326]I just do not like it there. You walk around and people are racist... to everyone. I just don't want anything to do with it. But Israel has a right to exist and a right to defend itself.[/QUOTE] As far as I know only right-winger extremists are racist. I have some right-winger friends who aren't racist for example, but I do have some friends from all sides of the political compass (hehe) who are racist, they are only a minority. [QUOTE=JDK721v2;22326322]lol, what's so bad over there? are you blind or something. no one likes the Israeli regime except nationalists/zionists/xenophobics[/QUOTE] The government is bad, with that I agree, but that is no reason to hate the place itself. [editline]08:54PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Sickle;22326374]No it doesn't it's all fucking stolen land.[/QUOTE] What stolen land?

[QUOTE=Sickle;22326374]No it doesn't it's all fucking stolen land.[/QUOTE] Oh, go away. Read up on the history of the land - and I'm talking biblical history. Actually, past biblical history.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22326330]Yes, what I meant is that Netanyahu's party had to ally up with the nationalists and zionists in order to get a majority. At least that is the situation as far as I am aware.[/QUOTE] That is indeed the situation. I'm surprised to see a person who is so knowledgeable on the situation.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;22326326]I just do not like it there. You walk around and people are racist... to everyone. I just don't want anything to do with it. But Israel has a right to exist and a right to defend itself.[/QUOTE] Defend itself from what? Scrutiny over international incidents? Do you honestly expect their investigation to be completely unbiased? Do you not think the fact that they are asked to investigate their own criminal actions might indicate that they may blur it a bit in their favor?

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22326381]The government is bad, with that I agree, but that is no reason to hate the place itself.[/QUOTE] I said the Israeli regime.. the government, military, etc. death to them

On the one hand, I still have yet to see firm proof that it was 'Israel's crime'. On the other, I agree an independent entity should carry out the investigation.